Koni SA vs Tokico D Spec vs Bilstein HD - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 7 Old 09-08-2011, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Koni SA vs Tokico D Spec vs Bilstein HD

Which are better for a street/strip car that will also hit a couple open track events a year?

I am thinking that the Tokico's are out because it sounds like the quality is better on Koni and Bilstein from some searches I have done. The Koni's should work well at the drag strip because I can loosen up the front rebound damping to allow the front end to raise up quickly on the launch. However, I will have to run at least a 275lb spring in the coil/overs with these shocks and MM said that a 250lb will launch better. The 275lb should go around the road course better and I am hoping that the adjustability of the Koni's will get it to launch as well at the strip as the Bilsteins combined with a 250lb spring so I will get a good compromise there.

Which ride better on the street? I am assuming the Bilsteins with a 250lb spring would ride better. How much better?

I guess my main question is just on the quality between the Koni's and the Bilsteins.

Thanks,
Craig


1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
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post #2 of 7 Old 09-08-2011, 05:43 PM
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Koni vs Bilstein to me is all about whether you want to pay up front, or over time. Bilstein service is a lot cheaper than Koni. Sure Koni is under life time warranty, but if you need to shorten the shocks, like I do right now, you are going to be paying out of your ass for it.

Other than that, I really can't complain about Koni quality and performance. I've had Single Adjustables for over 4 years now, and they have been working well for me. I've used springs as soft as H&R Race kit, to 350 front / 250 rear coil overs on them, no problems so far, other than needing them to be just a tiny bit shorter in the back because of how low the car is.


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post #3 of 7 Old 09-08-2011, 07:04 PM
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As far as ride quality, I think C/Os on the front, whether 250# or 300# like mine, make a world of difference. With that said, IMHO the rear is where the most ride quality improvement can be made. This is because of the inherent bind built into the converging 4-link design. Get rid of the bind (read remove the uppers: one as in PM3L or both as in T/A), and ride quality improves dramatically even with higher rate springs to control the now freely articulating rear suspension. Of course, you will also need a PHB or Watts Link but both of those pieces help rear traction too.
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post #4 of 7 Old 09-23-2011, 04:35 PM
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A street/strip car will never handle very well on a road course. Pick a track type and then work toward that. Everything else will be an extreme compromise.

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post #5 of 7 Old 09-23-2011, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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I can't afford 2 race cars so a street strip setup will have to do. I am not planning on racing the thing around the track, just attend a few track day events. I will leave the actual racing for the drag strip, where it is much less likely to have some guy run into me.

Anyway, I have decided on the Koni SA's with a 275lb front coil over spring. This should be a good compromise. I'll work on the rear when I get a chance. I'll start with the Extreme Duty rear control arms which have spherical ends on both sides vs my mega-bite jr's which have poly on both sides. I am assuming that will help with some of the bind and it will also allow me to adjust the ride height.

I guess that I need to research this PM3L since I can't afford the MM panhard bar and torque arm with supporting hardware right now. What does the PM3L entail? Will it work okay for drag racing 470rwhp? I can't run my 530rwhp setup because I don't have a rollcage so I have to keep it at 11.50 for now. However, I may make one more trip to the track that I don't mind getting kicked out of after I put my TKO in.

1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
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post #6 of 7 Old 10-01-2011, 08:20 AM
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I'd be concerned about ripping out the upper torque boxes with all that power going through just one side of the crappy stock rear suspension, especially on drag tires.

Don't rule out changing spring rates for those rare track events, it's not that hard, and an extra set of coil over springs can be had for about one track day entry fee. Although, in my old car, I was able to get mid-high 1.6x 60' times on 17" drag radials with 400 lb coil overs up front. It ran a best of 11.8 @ 117. Engine was similar to yours, but no blower.

Justin
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post #7 of 7 Old 10-01-2011, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need-a-cage View Post
I guess that I need to research this PM3L since I can't afford the MM panhard bar and torque arm with supporting hardware right now. What does the PM3L entail? Will it work okay for drag racing 470rwhp?
The PM3L MUST be used with either a PHB or Watts Link; no choice on this. The reason is because of what the converging 4-link is designed to do. The LCAs primarily locate the axle front to rear squaring with the front. The UCAs do two jobs: (i) prevent axle roll and (ii) control lateral movement. They do neither well. The uppers need to "grow" and "twist" during articulation in order to do these jobs even mediocre. Thus, there must be some compliance in the bushings to allow the growth and twist. When the maximum compliance is reached, bind occurs and unpredictable handling follows.

To fix this binding problem, the best solution is to remove one of the jobs the uppers perform. The PM3L leaves one upper in place to control the roll and relies on a PHB or Watts to contol lateral movement. The T/A removes both uppers and controls roll (provides other benefits too) and relies on the PHB or Watts for laterial control (Note: the Steeda 5-link seperates the uppers two jobs as well but uses a different design to accomplish the result).

As far as whether a PM3L will hold up to drag launches, not without reinforcing the upper torque box as would be the case anyway. With that said, the "traditional" PM3L set-up (meaning the easest to accomplish) retains a stock upper with the rubber bushings. These bushings tend to wear very quickly due to the stresses placed upon them. So they would more than likely suffer failure rates much faster in a drag-race scenario as opposed to O/T or autox events which is what I do. In addition my PM3L uses rod-ends which do not bind. However, more stress is transfered into the torque box. I can see that the torque box and perhaps the floor pans would be in jeopardy with the kind of power you are putting down.
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