What is the best "bang for your buck" front end mod? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 08-23-2011, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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What is the best "bang for your buck" front end mod?

I'm looking to start upgrading the front end suspension of my 98 cobra but wanted to know everyone's opinion on what the best "bang for your buck" mod is.

Currently, my car is setup with: MM PHB, MM T/A, MM LCA's, MM FLSFC's, MM/Bilstein coilovers at all four corners, and GRIP/BBK CC plates. I want to reduce some understeer and "looseness" of the front end. What do you guys think the best "bang for your buck" mod is? Thanks

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post #2 of 20 Old 08-23-2011, 12:39 PM
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Curious how much understeer you have now? My 98 Cobra has almost no understeer which I find suprising.

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post #3 of 20 Old 08-23-2011, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I can't really rate how much understeer I really have, but I do know that there are times when I have to turn the wheel "a lot" just to make the car turn. Maybe its my driving style/technique or shear inability to drive but I do want to improve on my frontend somehow.
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post #4 of 20 Old 08-23-2011, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydewaysix View Post
I'm looking to start upgrading the front end suspension of my 98 cobra but wanted to know everyone's opinion on what the best "bang for your buck" mod is.

Currently, my car is setup with: MM PHB, MM T/A, MM LCA's, MM FLSFC's, MM/Bilstein coilovers at all four corners, and GRIP/BBK CC plates. I want to reduce some understeer and "looseness" of the front end. What do you guys think the best "bang for your buck" mod is? Thanks
My '95 track car is set up almost the same as your car and I was feeling the same thing. I am currently going "big bang bucks" with an Agent 47 dual A arm set up to see if that cures the problem. I'll let you know.

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post #5 of 20 Old 08-23-2011, 03:44 PM
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I had those BBK/Gripp CC plates before I did all the MM stuff and if you're running a coilover setup, I'd switch over to MM CC's immediately. Those other ones were hella weak by comparison and probably not up to coilover duty.

After that, the next step in the progression of what you already have is the k-member and a-arms.....or better brakes to slow you down a little faster to make those turns.
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post #6 of 20 Old 08-23-2011, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MJ91GT View Post
I had those BBK/Gripp CC plates before I did all the MM stuff and if you're running a coilover setup, I'd switch over to MM CC's immediately. Those other ones were hella weak by comparison and probably not up to coilover duty.

After that, the next step in the progression of what you already have is the k-member and a-arms.....or better brakes to slow you down a little faster to make those turns.
I know the BBK Gripp CC's probably aren't as strong as the MM ones, but why don't you think they'd last with my coilovers? Just curious as to why I should change them "immediately"
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post #7 of 20 Old 08-23-2011, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sydewaysix View Post
I know the BBK Gripp CC's probably aren't as strong as the MM ones, but why don't you think they'd last with my coilovers? Just curious as to why I should change them "immediately"
They've probably held up because I'm sure you don't hit potholes if you can avoid them. On the track, if you bang a curb, you may bend the plate.

What spring rates are you running? Stock control arm bushings?

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post #8 of 20 Old 08-23-2011, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stanger_Matt View Post
They've probably held up because I'm sure you don't hit potholes if you can avoid them. On the track, if you bang a curb, you may bend the plate.

What spring rates are you running? Stock control arm bushings?
Got ya! I haven't hit any potholes on the track, but have hit many rough roads when I used to daily drive the car. I guess I'd be better off getting the MM CC's anyway...they would look better too

I'm currently running 300lb. springs in the front (coilovers). i also still have the stock K-member, A-arms, and all the bushings.
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post #9 of 20 Old 08-23-2011, 08:47 PM
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I know this is not an sn95 car, but I have MM's Bilstein C/O with 300# springs on the front of my 86; MM's CC plates and STB; stock k-member and Ford '04 Mach 1 a-arms (stock bushing material which is a little stiffer). I'm running MMs sta-bar which is a little less stiff than stock. In the rear, I'm running MM's PHB, adjustable height LCAs, a PM3L (rod-ends - no rubber), H&R Super Race Conventionals with Bilsteins and MM's .75" solid adjustable rear sta-bar on the softest setting (similar to the 94/95 GT bar); I'm also running .5" spacers on Fox length axles. So far, I have no push with this set up; turn in is crisp and corner exit is predictable. I've been A/Xing the car alot including two EVO Schools.

You didn't say what your rear springs are but I assume some T/A appropriate rate. If it were me I'd look at your bars and maybe get an adjustable rear bar so you tweek it a little.

Last edited by qtrracer; 08-23-2011 at 08:51 PM. Reason: added stuff
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post #10 of 20 Old 08-24-2011, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydewaysix View Post
I want to reduce some understeer and "looseness" of the front end. What do you guys think the best "bang for your buck" mod is? Thanks
More negative camber and a tiny bit of toe-out.


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post #11 of 20 Old 08-24-2011, 02:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by qtrracer View Post
I know this is not an sn95 car, but I have MM's Bilstein C/O with 300# springs on the front of my 86; MM's CC plates and STB; stock k-member and Ford '04 Mach 1 a-arms (stock bushing material which is a little stiffer). I'm running MMs sta-bar which is a little less stiff than stock. In the rear, I'm running MM's PHB, adjustable height LCAs, a PM3L (rod-ends - no rubber), H&R Super Race Conventionals with Bilsteins and MM's .75" solid adjustable rear sta-bar on the softest setting (similar to the 94/95 GT bar); I'm also running .5" spacers on Fox length axles. So far, I have no push with this set up; turn in is crisp and corner exit is predictable. I've been A/Xing the car alot including two EVO Schools.

You didn't say what your rear springs are but I assume some T/A appropriate rate. If it were me I'd look at your bars and maybe get an adjustable rear bar so you tweek it a little.
Thanks for the input on your setup! I'm running 240 lb coilover springs in the rear with Bilsteins. I am still using the stock cobra sway bars in the front and rear so maybe an adjustable rear would helpa bit? My car handles great, dont get me wrong, but the front end feels a little sloppy and loose at times and doesnt seem to want to turn-in very well when taking a certain turns at higher speeds. Again, this may be due to my driving style and not braking hard enough before entering the turn, but if this is true, I still want to "tighten" up the steering somehow.
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post #12 of 20 Old 08-25-2011, 01:29 PM
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MM solid steering rack bushings will make the front end of the car "feel" tighter as will their A arms with urethane or delrin bushings and the added benefit of a noticeable performance gain so that may be a good place to start. I don't know jack about coil over spring rates but if those front springs you're running aren't super stiff, you may want to look into a big front sway bar to keep all that weight in the nose under control.

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Last edited by Ciotti; 08-25-2011 at 01:32 PM.
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post #13 of 20 Old 08-25-2011, 02:25 PM
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Without getting into the debate of which sta-bar theory is best, I subscribe to MM's approach of controlling front roll with higher rate springs, especially the C/O variety, rather than a big bar. This is why MM offers only one MM designed bar for the front. For the rear, MM offers at least 5 adjustable bar options for A/X and O/T cars with each option including a range that overlaps with the next stiffer option. In their view, the adjustable bar is a fine tuning device. Since you said the car seems "almost" fine, perhaps it's time to decide which sta-bar theory is best for your needs. But remember, it's a package. All the parts must work in concert and not fight with one another. For example, there is another thread that discusses the problems of using an MM PHB with both stock uppers rather than the T/A, PM3L or true 3-link.
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post #14 of 20 Old 08-26-2011, 12:31 AM
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best bang for the buck is play with the alignment. It's free (well, your time) and makes a huge difference. Get a gauge and see what you and your car like the best...
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post #15 of 20 Old 08-26-2011, 08:25 AM
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With your comment about poor turn in I would also suggest more toe-out
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post #16 of 20 Old 08-27-2011, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sydewaysix View Post
I know the BBK Gripp CC's probably aren't as strong as the MM ones, but why don't you think they'd last with my coilovers? Just curious as to why I should change them "immediately"
Think about it, each corner of the car is held up by the spring, it transfers the all the weight and loads of the car and suspension through the spring, essentally attached to the LCA and supported by a non-movable part of the car's chassis. The shocks/struts are only responsible for controlling jounce and rebound of the suspension.

With the stock spring location, the loads transfer from the LCA through the spring to the k-member (or vice versa). The CC plate has very little load transfered through it.

With a coilover setup, loads are transfered from LCA through the spindle, then through the strut and spring and then to the strut tower (or vice versa). The thing holding the strut to the tower is the CC plate setup. As some of the others noted, severe impact loads and cornering loads in addition to the standard weight of the vehicle are now all going through parts of the CC plate, where as they were all going straight to the k-member before.

The MM CC plate and some others are designed to take those loads, those Gripp ones aren't. They work fine in the Mustang's conventional setup but I personally wouldn't trust them in a coilover situation, just look at the ones that are on your car and look at some pictures of the MM ones and you'll see a huge difference.

Last edited by MJ91GT; 08-27-2011 at 01:10 AM.
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post #17 of 20 Old 08-27-2011, 02:10 PM
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The best bang for the buck modification as others have said would be your alignment(camber and toe)


Does it push turning left AND right? Does your weight have an effect on it and will it turn better one way or the other?



Playing with sway-bar sizes would help too.

Do you have sway-bars on the car and also what tires/sizes are you running?

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post #18 of 20 Old 08-28-2011, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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The best bang for the buck modification as others have said would be your alignment(camber and toe)


Does it push turning left AND right? Does your weight have an effect on it and will it turn better one way or the other?



Playing with sway-bar sizes would help too.

Do you have sway-bars on the car and also what tires/sizes are you running?
The track I usually run primarily only has right hand turns that are sharp enough to feel the "push." The left hand turns are only in the "S" sections of the track so I dont really notice it as much.

Yes, I do have my stock cobra sway bars in the front and rear. My tires were a square setup at 255-40-18. I've recently swapped my wheels to a square setup fo 255-40-17 but have yet to try them on the track.
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post #19 of 20 Old 08-28-2011, 09:35 AM
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I have also some understeer, can someone comment if Steeda x2 baljoits help reduce understeer.

Setup: 4xcoilover 400/225. stock K/A-arms. Steeda 5-link.
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post #20 of 20 Old 08-31-2011, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sydewaysix View Post
The track I usually run primarily only has right hand turns that are sharp enough to feel the "push." The left hand turns are only in the "S" sections of the track so I dont really notice it as much.

Yes, I do have my stock cobra sway bars in the front and rear. My tires were a square setup at 255-40-18. I've recently swapped my wheels to a square setup fo 255-40-17 but have yet to try them on the track.
Now that you mention it's worse turning right vs left it reminds me of the huge difference in the feel of my car with the OEM LSD which would spin the right rear like crazy in right handers vs when I put in an Eaton LSD which puts a ton of power into that right rear and makes the car feel like it's pushing a lot less. All it's actually doing is putting more power into the wheel that's gripping but what that does is allow me to bring the rear end around with the throttle and thus it feels much more neutral.

That only applies to when you're on the throttle though, on corner entry if you're trail braking (dragging the brakes while you turn in) or when off the throttle, the diff would make no difference.

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