Can you have fun on a road coarse with stock brakes? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
Can you have fun on a road course with stock brakes? (UPDATED WITH VIDEO in last post

I just went around Infineon Raceway in my buddy's car that is all set up for road racing. It was a blast and now I would like to take my car around the track but it far from being set up. I have the original shocks, stock brakes, and Nitto drag radials on the back. I have Powerslot rotors and will get some Hawk pads, but will this be enough to get me around the track? Will I be fast enough to have fun? It would be in a NASA HPDE-1 class. The wheels are the stock 16" Pony's. I have BFG G-force on the front and Nitto 555r drag radials on the back. It has Eibach progressive springs and sits really low, which is causing it to have a lot of negative camber and grooves in the road do steer it quite a bit. Do I need to get some caster/camber plates and possibly a bump steer kit and have it aligned first? I guess I should also get matching rear tires. I'll de'tune it and run my 11.50 @ 120mph setup. It might be safer to run it NA, which did 12.30 @ 110mph with better tires.


1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph

Last edited by Need-a-cage; 10-25-2012 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Typo
Need-a-cage is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 12:20 PM
CSG
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (18)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sulphur, La.
Posts: 1,722
I would replace the drag radials and go at it. My first time out I was very easy on the brakes and had a great time.

CSG is offline  
post #3 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 01:30 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: MN
Posts: 914
It really depends on the track, but looking at your engine mods, I would be very heisitant to road race it with stock brakes. I ran around Road America a few years ago with a stock engine stang and stock brakes and they faded very quickly. One buddy went off the track right ahead of me with the same setup(I barely made it through the corner) and that was only 1 lap into the 20 minute session. Hell, I even had slight brake fade slowing down after a quarter mile run, and that was only 118mph through the traps.....but I'm sure different pads would make a difference.

If you are VERY easy on the brakes(i.e. coasting way down before braking), you could get away with stock brakes and yes, you can still have a ton of fun.

Get rid of the drag radials for sure.

'89 Notch: 3O4, Novi 2K/12psi, TFS heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, Cobra Intake, Tremec, Spec Stg. 2, C springs, Konis,MM CC plates, Cobra brake conversion w/ Bullitt wheels, and more crap. [email protected] with no tune- New BBK Long tubes, x-pipe and Tweecer RT and 436rwhp/432rwtq.
Blown85GT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 02:09 PM
MFE
Super Moderator
 
MFE's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 27,649
On the one hand, people were racing these things in Showroom Stock 25 years go with puny front brakes and drum rears, so yes, it can be done. On the other hand, Infineon is a huge, fast track with three very hard braking zones and several moderate ones. If you use the power you have on tap, your brakes won't even last you a lap, and staring at the wall on the last hairpin is not where you want to lose the brakes.

But it's not a race, it's a learning experience. Put a throttle stop in it so you can't run more than 80% throttle (no, I'm not kidding), put some hi-temp grease in the front bearings, run some Hawk HP+ front pads, flush the brake system with fresh DOT4 fluid, try to duct some air to the center of the rotors, and go out and have day of rioutous fun and unmatchable learning. Put yourself in the mindset that you're going to have fun even if you're the slowest guy in the field, and you'll have a blast. If you try to be the fastest guy in the field, your day will be short, disappointing, and likely very expensive.
MFE is offline  
post #5 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 02:16 PM
CSG
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (18)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sulphur, La.
Posts: 1,722
At the revolution school the other weekend a guy walked into the second classroom session late, sweating profusly, hair straight up with dirt all over him. He sat down, raised his hand and said: "please explain brake fade to me".
CSG is offline  
post #6 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 02:31 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: winston salem
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG View Post
At the revolution school the other weekend a guy walked into the second classroom session late, sweating profusly, hair straight up with dirt all over him. He sat down, raised his hand and said: "please explain brake fade to me".
That is hilarious!

2003 Azure mach1 5 speed with IUP
Maximum Motorsports R&T Box with Torque Arm
2012 Candy Red Metalic Premium Brembo GT w/373
HPDE Instructor
j rick kirby is offline  
post #7 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 03:12 PM
Registered User
 
Coupe de Surf's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 565
The stock brakes will get you by for the first event. You will not be going very fast at Infineon in a HPDE-1 class in the summer at Infineon. There are too many people. Get the matching rear tires, flush all of your fluids, and put high quality brake fluid in it. I would seriously consider removing the blower, my car traps around the same as yours did NA, it has more than enough power to get a beginner in trouble. Your first event goals should be 1) be smooth and safe, 2) decide if I like this enough to pursue it as a hobby keeping in mind that it is an expensive hobby. If you really like it then you can do a 5-lug conversion and put some cobra brakes on it, and then start modifying the suspension.

NASA AIX Outlaw West Coast
Coupe de Surf is offline  
post #8 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 05:01 PM
Corral Day Kittah
 
KC LX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Sonoran Desert
Posts: 16,060
Get the HP+ if you're currently running stock brakes. My DD used to be my open track ride and MFE put HP+ along with bigger front rotors for my first OT event. I was addicted to the stopping power even though they dust like crazy and squeal like a city bus on the street. For less than $100, I'd suggest the HP+ as a safety item that happens to be brakes.

2007 Mazda CX-7 Grand Touring AWD Turbo, 244 hp/258 torque - now with trailer hitch...zoom, zoom

Graduate: Bondurant Specialty Grand Prix Road Racing and Bridgestone Winter Driving Schools, some local autocross championships; now filling your mirrors on the open track

Last edited by KC LX; 06-14-2011 at 05:07 PM.
KC LX is offline  
post #9 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 05:44 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 529
Back in the late 80's I took my Mustang GT with the FI 302 V8 and 10 inch front disc brakes and 9 inch drum brake rears for open track days to Mid Ohio, Nelson Ledges, Road America, Watkins Glen, and Blackhawk Farms. I did use very HD front pads and even a set of what at the time were called "racing" pads. Never had a brake pad fade. A mushy pedal at times but no total fade.

I knew of the problem with the Mustangs front brakes but I drove in a manner that conserved them so that they would be there for the whole session. I also learned to carry speed into the turns that I feel ended up making me a better driver.

Just an FYI. I had a friend who went to work for Saleen Racing in the same time period for a short time. They were racing the Saleen Mustangs in the SCCA Escort Endurance series. These were 12 & 24 hour races staged all over the country. They used the SVO style brakes on those cars and ended up using very hard brake pads made out of a titanium compound. During a pit stop they would swap out the rotors and reused the pads, they were that hard! The pads would last the full 24 hours but they would go through numerous rotors.

"Drag racing is for those people who don't know how to down shift and brake at the same time. "
DD '12 VW Jetta TDI, Race car '87 ITA 16V Scriocco
Cars owned: '86 Mustang GT, '92 Mustang LX, '93 Mustang Cobra "R" #58
Jim Brozynski is offline  
post #10 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
Alright, I am going to have to try it. It will still be a while before I can get out there, but I will definitely take it easy. I'll let off really early and start downshifting before getting on the brakes. It will be nice to say that I have taken the car around the road course at Infineon (Sears Point) and not just the drag strip. I will not be to take this up as a hobby right now. It is too expensinve so I will just have to stick with drag racing right now. Eventually I would like to set the car up to do double duty. Right now it is definitely better suited for the drag strip. The stock leather seats try to eject me around corners as well, so they would have to be upgraded to keep me planted.

Right now I just want to go out and have some fun on the track but I don't want to hit any walls. I think I can refrain from using too much of my power on the road course.


1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #11 of 38 Old 06-14-2011, 07:07 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (12)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Va
Posts: 284
The Nitto drag radials aren't too bad btw... softer sidewall so they'll roll some but they'll do fine. I had them on the back of my FFR for a couple of HPDE1 sessions. Don't try to be the fastest on the straights, anyone can plant the throttle to the floor. Try to be smooth in the curves and learn what the car is telling you. Get some rides with the instructors, I learned alot that way....
edhunter is offline  
post #12 of 38 Old 06-15-2011, 03:09 PM
Registered User
 
straightliner1's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: California. Where'd they put the Taco Trucks?
Posts: 4,772
OP,

When are you looking to head out there? I'm trying to get my bucket together for some HPDE action myself. Check out prices for "driving school" class on Northern California Racing Club - Schedule of Events .
Thunderhill is a GREAT beginner track, meaning lots of runoff and little to no walls, besides the pit wall.

Justin
FYI: Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left!
SOLD - 91LX Couper track bitch
straightliner1 is offline  
post #13 of 38 Old 06-15-2011, 04:24 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 208
Need-a-cage...I think I mentioned this to you on cafords, but i ran my first HPDE event this past april at Thunderhill. I had stock brakes and they were fine. I wasn't able to pick up enough speed my first time out to be able to reach the point of brake fade. I'm not even sure what pads I had on there, just the standard Kragen ones I assume. Your instructor will have you driving fairly slow to try and work on smoothness and control before telling you to go faster. I think that if you swap out your drag radials for street tires and just maintain ease on the throttle (since you have a high powered motor) you should be good. Its a great time and I'm sure you'll get hooked! Then you can start upgrading to better tires, brakes, etc.

Coupe de Surf hooked me up with my first set of race pads and they're awesome! They do throw a bit of dust, but who cares! Good luck and shoot me a PM on cafords when you decide to go out there! There's a few of us on the board that try to get together for trackdays
sydewaysix is offline  
post #14 of 38 Old 06-15-2011, 08:01 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by edhunter View Post
The Nitto drag radials aren't too bad btw... softer sidewall so they'll roll some but they'll do fine. I had them on the back of my FFR for a couple of HPDE1 sessions. Don't try to be the fastest on the straights, anyone can plant the throttle to the floor. Try to be smooth in the curves and learn what the car is telling you. Get some rides with the instructors, I learned alot that way....
Some clubs (like Trackguys, inc) will fail you in tech if you have drag radials so read the rules or ask a club official before you go. There are NO refunds for failing tech at the track and it sucks to be caught out like that!
In reference to your brakes. Pre track day preparation is very important. You don't want to go out there on old brake fluid and poor quality pads/shoes. I raced an SCCA Mustang GT on stock 1985 Disc/Drums and, granted they weren't the quality of todays systems. They were fine, but......It we used good quality, track rated fluid, high performance pads and shoes and had cooling ducts also. Your brakes are going to take a beating as your skills improve so be prudent and prepare your car before you go out there. There is a wealth of information on this sport so continue to ask questions.

Here is my old racer with the disc / drum combo.

2002 F250 Crewcab PSD, 1994 GT 331 Track Car, 2006 GT Vert weekend cruiser!
NASA, SCCA, PCA-DE Instructor
PBOC-FL-DE instructor, SVTOA-HPDE Instructor
fastduo is offline  
post #15 of 38 Old 06-16-2011, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
I don't want rush out there without prepairing the car a little. I am thinking that early next summer might be the right time. I have to get some stuff done around the house before I start spending extra time on the car for road racing and then going to the track on the weekend. If not, the wife might sell the car when I am not home!

I want to get the Hawk pads and flush the fluid and put some good stuff in. What does everyone recommend for brake fluid? On the way to the drag strip yesterday, I got on it pretty hard around the corners and the tires were not as stable as I would like. The bald Nittos in cold weather felt much stiffer than the new ones in the 90 degree heat we had yesterday. I only had 30 psi in them so I could bump that up a little to stiffen them up, but I would rather get some street tires. The Nittos were spinning so bad yesterday that I really want to get some better drag tires for my extra set of rims. Maybe I'll have to pick up another pair of Pony's so I can have my drag radials, street tires, and bial ply drag tires. That will piss off the wife to have another set! I also did a quick run to 100mph with a buddy in the car a couple days ago and hit the brakes fairly hard down to 50mph. I could really smell the brakes after that and I would have to hit them at least that hard on the road course. I think I want my offroad H-pipe back on it as well. It is just too quiet with the cats on it. I am waiting to upgrade the synchro blocker rings in the TKO that is on my bench and then I'll go back to the offroad when I put the TKO in to replace my 3550. I think I want to upgrade my front sway bar bushings too. I took it off for one race to see if it would help the launch and the car just doesn't feel as tight with it back on as it did before. I think the rubber got loose from uninstalling and reinstalling the bar.

I have thought about Thunderhill but it is a long way to drive the car, race it, and drive it home. Infineon is only 40 minutes from my house, so it is a lot more convenient. I think I would want to trailer the car to Thunderhill. I know Thunderhill has longer straights, so do you end up using your brakes more there, or are the turns faster coming off of the straights? I wouldn't go into 5th, so no matter how long the straight is, the fastest I would go is 120mph and then I would just let off and start slowing down.

Does anyone make bigger 4-lug rotors and matching caliper mounts or better calipers that fit in the 16" Pony's? My other problem is my c-clip elims on the back. I think it will be hard to find discs that will clear and not cost a fortune. I don't have the money to upgrade to 5-lug and 17's and get new tires, wheels, brakes, axles, etc... Some time in the distant future, I will do the upgrade. In the back I will ditch the c-clip elims and have 9" ends welded onto the 8.8 so I will have better axle retention and then get discs for the 9". I will also have to order custom strange SS axles to replace the ones that are currently in there. It won't be cheap. So, for now the 4-lug will have to do.

Thanks for all the advice.

Craig

1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #16 of 38 Old 06-17-2011, 12:34 PM
CSG
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (18)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sulphur, La.
Posts: 1,722
I run 9" ends eith cobra brakes on my street car, nice setup.

Considering budget restraints I would recommend getting 94+ GT bakes and complete rear end. I bought a complete setup including spindles for $200. This would give decent brakes and eliminate the c-clip eliminator setup that you currently have as those aren't great for roar course action. Then you would just need to score some wheels to get out there and have some fun. It is a pretty cheap upgrade later to step up to cobra setup from the GT setup with parts house stuff.
CSG is offline  
post #17 of 38 Old 06-17-2011, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
I would still have to spend $300 on axles. I have already broken 2 stockers at the strip. Also, I may put a cage in the car and rear discs don't actually count as "axle retention" devices. I'll probably just wait and do it right. I can't afford to get serious about road racing right now. I just want to take one trip out there to check it out and then go for it later in life when I can afford it. For now, I'll have to stick with drag racing.
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #18 of 38 Old 06-17-2011, 03:42 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Nowhere, Special
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need-a-cage View Post
I would still have to spend $300 on axles. I have already broken 2 stockers at the strip. Also, I may put a cage in the car and rear discs don't actually count as "axle retention" devices. I'll probably just wait and do it right. I can't afford to get serious about road racing right now. I just want to take one trip out there to check it out and then go for it later in life when I can afford it. For now, I'll have to stick with drag racing.
I'm gonna warn you now, once you get bit by the track bug, most if not all of the drag racing bug will wear off and you'll be on the track crack.
MJ91GT is offline  
post #19 of 38 Old 06-17-2011, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
I think I'll always want to keep drag racing. I love powershifting the gears down the track and launching the crap out of the car. Also, it is every Wednesday night and only $25 to race. It is much easier for me to get out there on a Wednesday night than for a whole day on the weekend.
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #20 of 38 Old 06-23-2011, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
Well, I didn't wait that long. I couldn't pass up the $49 deal to get a classroom session and a 20 minute track session. Also, I talked my buddy into going so I'll be able to get another ride around the track in the HPDE-4 class as a passenger in his car. I am just doing something that NASA calls Hyperdrive. You don't need a membership. I am sure we'll be slow because it is geared towards complete noobs, like myself. I am just going to run it on the drag radials for now with my original shocks! I ordered Maximum Motorsports stock brake upgrade which includeds better pads (Hawk HPS), better shoes, braided hoses, and some caliper sleeves. I also got some Wilwood fluid and I'll flush the system. I also got the shorter end links for my sway bar and new sway bar bushings. If the brakes do okay, I'll get shocks and rear tires and try it again in an HPDE-1 event. I will upgrade the brakes later when I can do it right and go to 5-lug.

I am going out on July 2nd!

1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #21 of 38 Old 07-03-2011, 04:23 PM
Registered User
 
straightliner1's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: California. Where'd they put the Taco Trucks?
Posts: 4,772
So, how was it?

Justin
FYI: Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left!
SOLD - 91LX Couper track bitch
straightliner1 is offline  
post #22 of 38 Old 07-05-2011, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
It was a blast! So, the answer to my question in the original post is YES!! The brakes did fine, but I didn't push them very hard.

Here is what I posted on the Cafords forum.

The brakes feel better with the cheap upgrade I did with the MM package. I really only tried them out once when the instructor had me pass a guy on the way to turn 11. I told myself I would not pass anyone there. I wasn't even set up right so I had to use a lot of power. I jumped on it in 3rd and hit 4th right behind the drag race tower and then had to immediately downshift and hit the brakes hard for the corner. I went a little wide but I made it around the turn and then took off hard in 2nd. That was so much fun and I think I could have hit the brakes harder and took a better line, but I wanted to make sure they didn't lock up so I only hit them as hard as I needed to in order to make it around the turn. I definitely want to get out there again so I can try adding more power coming out of the corners. There were always cars in my way to really feel what the car could do. The corners sure are different when you start adding speed! My drag radials actually did okay. At least I could put the power down in 2nd coming out of turn 11 and it would stick and go. I was only at WOT in 2nd for about half a second and I was shifting early and trying to do smooth shifts. The instructor told me not to take off so hard out of turn 11 the first time around, so I was a little gun shy after that. I didn't want to piss him off. He just kept saying to add the power smoothly. So, no spinning the tires onto the straights and powershifting.

I definitely want to get back out there. I already ordered some caster/camber plates and I want to get some shocks. Mine are 18 year old originals!! Less than 70k miles though. I have to figure out if my bald ET Street bias ply drag tires on my extra Pony's is going to get replaced with Street tires or if I need to get another set of Pony's!

There is another Hyperdrive at the end of September. $39!! I might just have to do that one too. If I have street tires by then and some of the other upgrades, I may spend the big bucks and do HPDE-1. That will probably wait til next year.

1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #23 of 38 Old 07-05-2011, 12:36 PM
Registered User
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need-a-cage View Post
The instructor told me not to take off so hard out of turn 11 the first time around, so I was a little gun shy after that. I didn't want to piss him off. He just kept saying to add the power smoothly. So, no spinning the tires onto the straights and powershifting.
Chances are he either knew or suspected a drag-race background and was trying to get across a couple of the big differences between driving the quarter mile and a road course.

You aren't looking to save a few thousandths of a second at HPDE. Powershifting is OK at the dragstrip, where your presence on the track itself is 3 upshifts and done. But out on the road course you need to think more like an endurance racer, where you've got to keep the car together and avoid losing control due to unexpected wheelspin.

I don't know how far into "friction circle" theory they got, but to make a long story short you can't suddenly demand lots of forward acceleration while you've still got much cornering going on. Your drag radials will perhaps hold it under control a little longer, but they too can snap loose before you know what's happened if you jump into it too quickly and/or too soon. Your forced induction power level exaggerates this.

What you do want to learn is to gradually squeeze down into the throttle, not stomp on it.

I realize that the shifting and throttle modulation stuff represents an entirely different mindset that may take some time to become natural (it's entirely OK for you to feel like you're granny-shifting by drag-race standards).


Quote:
I definitely want to get back out there.
Didn't have to read this far to see that coming . . . shocks with 70k miles on them are ancient . . . keep an eye on your rotors


Norm

Mine: '08 GT, 5MT, black/light graphite, un-Fstock (DD, occasional track day)
Wife's: '10 Legacy 2.5GT (DD, six-speed manual)
Spare:'01 20AE Maxima, 5MT (also my bad weather alternate)
Various Loose Parts: '79 Malibu

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 07-05-2011 at 12:55 PM.
Norm Peterson is offline  
post #24 of 38 Old 07-05-2011, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
Hey Norm,

Thanks for the advice. I do understand about putting the power down. On that first trip around turn 11 I was going pretty slow and I was just about completely straight before I got on it. I did actually take off faster than I wanted to but it sure felt good. I was definitely shifting easy because you are turning to the left slightly and getting pretty close to the wall in front of the grand stands right as I am throwing the shifter. I wouldn't want to upset the car right there! I do ride motorcycles as well, so I am used to keeping a steady throttle through the turn and then slowly rolling it on as you come out of the corner. I need to take my car out on Hwy 1 next time instead of the bike so I can get some more practice.

I think I am going to get the Tokico D specs. It sounds like they are extremely adjustable to be able to do okay in both drag racing if you loosen them up and in road racing if you tighten them up. The only problem is that they adjust the compression and rebound together, so I can't make them perfect. I would think I could make them better for road racing and drag racing than the worn out shocks. I just haven't wanted to put a stiff shock on there because I figured it would screw up my launch on the drag strip. These adjustable ones should work great. Soft for drag race, stiff for road race, somewhere in the middle for the street.

It was definitely fun. I can't go all out, but I think my current brakes combined with shock and tire change will allow me to go fast enough to have a lot of fun. It is already good enough to learn the track and figure out the road racing basics.

Craig

1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #25 of 38 Old 10-24-2012, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
I finally got to do a whole track day. I ran at Thunderhill and did 150 miles and burned through 22 gallons of fuel. So, I am going to answer my own question again and say Hell Yes! However, I could have gone so much quicker with good brakes. It was still a blast and they held in longer than I thought they would. I just had to accelerate half as far on the straights as the guys did with good brakes and just let off really early everywhere.

My lines weren’t the best on these videos but they are the most fun to watch since there is another car in them. I kept turning in too early on a lot of them, like 4 and 14, oh and probably most the others! It sure was a blast though. The different mentors gave me different lines, so I need to go back out without anyone in the car and just try a few different variations and see what my car likes the best. Next time I will start out slow and just try to get smoother, find the line which probably means turning in later on many, maybe starting wider on 2 and 3 and work my way in slower, and then gradually add speed. I need to make sure I slow down more for 11 and 14 but maybe try 1 and 8 a little faster.

093 Photo guy left after the 2nd session before I started running quicker.

GoPro Footage chasing a Porsche starting at the blind Turn 5.

GoPro Footage giving an early blown ZO6 the point by and then chasing him. Video starts at Turn 5 again. I wish I could stay on it longer but I need brakes. I hit 120mph on the front straight and then lifted. You can see how much longer someone with good brakes stays on it. They go way passed the flagger before they lift and I lift way before. Most of the time I was shutting down even earlier at 110mph.

Overall, I don’t think this was too bad for a drag racer taking his drag car around a road course!

1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #26 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 01:02 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tucson,AZ
Posts: 38
Looks like a lot of fun. I hope to get out to a track myself someday. I need to get rid of this AOD trans. Any changes to your suspension since your last post in 2011?

1988 LX coupe 5.0L AOD
Mimosa yellow 1 of 46 built
Way2QWK is offline  
post #27 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
Yes, I put a MM coilover kit on the front with 250lb springs so it will also work well on the street and drag strip. I put non-offset control arms on, solid rack bushings, caster/camber plates, bump steer kit, and aligned it better. I put Tokico D specs in front and back. I also swapped out the Mega-bites in the back with the MM Extreme Duty lowers and put H&R Super Race springs on the back which MM said would match the 250lb coil-over. I also swapped the drag radials with some 275x40-17 Nitto 555 street tires on PonyR 17x9's which look just like my stock Pony's. I still have the stock 16" Pony's up front with older 225x50-16 BFG G-force T/A's. I think a matching 235x45-17 Nitto would help a lot up front.

I was pretty happy when my under braked drag car got a point-by by a Porsche with HUGE brakes and wide tires on it. I have also added weight so my car is close to 3400lbs by itself and I had a passenger all day. I had a mentor for the first 3 sessions and then I took my cousin out for the last two. So much fun!

1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #28 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 11:27 AM
Registered User
 
Norm Peterson's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 502
245/45-17's up front would be better. They will work better on 9" wide wheels than most peoples opinion of the appearance lets them think.


Norm

Mine: '08 GT, 5MT, black/light graphite, un-Fstock (DD, occasional track day)
Wife's: '10 Legacy 2.5GT (DD, six-speed manual)
Spare:'01 20AE Maxima, 5MT (also my bad weather alternate)
Various Loose Parts: '79 Malibu
Norm Peterson is offline  
post #29 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
I am pretty sure that I would have clearance problems up front with 245's. I was going to get 8" wheels for the front if I did it. I am not even sure those PonyR's are available anymore though and I hate to invest any more money in 4-lug.

1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #30 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 12:09 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tucson,AZ
Posts: 38
Did you have the new setup during the last gopro videos?

1988 LX coupe 5.0L AOD
Mimosa yellow 1 of 46 built
Way2QWK is offline  
post #31 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
Yes, that video was taken on Monday of this week. I also had a bigger pulley on the S-trim, which ran 11.45 @ 121mph two weeks ago.

1993 LX HB, Dart big bore 347, Ported Cobra Intake, 70mm TB, Edlelbrock 6037s, FTI custom emission friendly blower cam, 60lb inj, Bullet MAF, Vortech SQ Trim, TKO500, JBA Shorties, 3.55's, and Tweecer R/T
10.84 @ 128.5mph

Last edited by Need-a-cage; 10-25-2012 at 12:18 PM. Reason: typo
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #32 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 12:38 PM
Registered User
 
Nitrous SSC's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 7,196
Lookin good!!! 500+ hp is so much fun when you can open it up on the straight and reel in the high dollar cars.

Matt, 90' GT 347, 6037 heads, V1 Si-trim, 11psi, B31 Cam, T56, SV Intake, BE/Tweecer Tuned. 550rwhp 513tq
Bonneville 130 club member. (139.993) [email protected] in the 1/4.
03' Sonic Blue Cobra 497rwhp 481tq
13' Taurus SHO Performance PackDaily
Nitrous SSC is offline  
post #33 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 03:03 PM
MFE
Super Moderator
 
MFE's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 27,649
When in doubt, turn in later AND wait longer to get on the gas. Hard habits to break!
MFE is offline  
post #34 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Need-a-cage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 895
Yeah, I had some that I was trying to turn in later and I turned in late enough to miss the apex. Then I started turning in too early again. Next time I'll start out late and if I miss the apex then I can slowly start turning in sooner on every lap until I get it right. I definitely did better when I had the mentor in the car than when my cousin was in there and we were BS'ing, but I think I was entering the corners a little slower with the mentor as well so it was easier to hit the line better, not to mention I had someone in the car that new what the hell was going on. LOL!
Need-a-cage is offline  
post #35 of 38 Old 10-25-2012, 03:48 PM
Registered User
 
Nitrous SSC's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need-a-cage View Post
Yeah, I had some that I was trying to turn in later and I turned in late enough to miss the apex. Then I started turning in too early again. Next time I'll start out late and if I miss the apex then I can slowly start turning in sooner on every lap until I get it right. I definitely did better when I had the mentor in the car than when my cousin was in there and we were BS'ing, but I think I was entering the corners a little slower with the mentor as well so it was easier to hit the line better, not to mention I had someone in the car that new what the hell was going on. LOL!
Jealous about the ride along. At Miller only an instructor can ride.

Matt, 90' GT 347, 6037 heads, V1 Si-trim, 11psi, B31 Cam, T56, SV Intake, BE/Tweecer Tuned. 550rwhp 513tq
Bonneville 130 club member. (139.993) [email protected] in the 1/4.
03' Sonic Blue Cobra 497rwhp 481tq
13' Taurus SHO Performance PackDaily
Nitrous SSC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
fox rear disc brakes?? phillie356 General Mustang Tech 64 10-14-2012 08:49 AM
For Sale OEM 2003 Mach 1 Brakes vertigyn Suspension 5 04-20-2011 09:52 AM
2012 MUSTANG BOSS 302 LETS LOOSE WITH TRACKEY; CHOOSE STOCK OR FULL-RACE CALIBRATION [email protected] Lounge 35 11-12-2010 08:50 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome