Best power plant na 427 or turbo 331 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 26 Old 05-02-2011, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Best power plant na 427 or turbo 331

What do you guys think. I am a powerjunkie
Im selling supercharger now.


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post #2 of 26 Old 05-02-2011, 02:58 PM
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Track car? The 427 hands down

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post #3 of 26 Old 05-02-2011, 03:38 PM
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I was trying to decide this also, but ended up getting a smoking deal (wouldnt believe me if I told you!) on a 421 widsor, with machined block and balanced assembly. so that made the choice for me, haha, that should put me in the 10s and hoping a 100 shot puts me in single digits, hoping for a reliable car that runs 10/9s that can drive all day in 110 degree summers with A/C on. oh and look exactly like my 306 looks now.

but a turbod 331 can do the same thing but Ive seen too many street cars unwillingly end up as track cars after turboing.

personally Id rather have a super reliable 12 seond car that I drive every day (what I have now) then a unreliable 10 second car that only gets driven once a week.

90LX, systemax kit, Z-cam, 175hp nos kit

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post #4 of 26 Old 05-02-2011, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Main use is open track but run it also maxton mile

I had 331 with vortech on it made 552 rwhp 527tq finnaly got sick of the heat soak due to no air air intercooler. Really would like turbo but i think im gonna be asking for more heat problems.

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post #5 of 26 Old 05-02-2011, 04:09 PM
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Heat along with alot of heat induced cracking. I love my turbo. Car and my vortech car but for real track use build a big na motor. You can still get 500 rwhp out of it.
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post #6 of 26 Old 05-02-2011, 05:00 PM
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my hp numbers were less than yours, but i think the experience is similar. i had a s/c 302 in my 95 that made 425rwhp that exploded a valve due to heat issues on the road course. it ran a best of [email protected] on my r-comps. same car with my 408 with 410rwhp was soo happy to run all day on a road course and actually turned a faster [email protected] the blown 302 required 100 octane to combat the heat on the road course. the 408 was happy to have 93 octane. the 408, with less hp and nearly identical torque, was a much better all around engine. it did everything better. corner exit was phenominal! there was useable torque everywhere and much less shifting and dropped 2 seconds from my laps at summit main. the weight of the 302 with the vortech and a heavy cobra intake was about the same as the 408 with a spyder intake. you will likely take a weight penalty over your current engine to do a turbo. i vote for the 427 all the way.

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post #7 of 26 Old 05-02-2011, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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That is exactly the info i was curious about thanks guys

next question i was going to use a boss block and bore it the 4.125
How much stroke i would like to rev 7000 rpm at least is that reliable?
Or should i destroke to like 408 or is the extra inch better than rpm


I want to be able to run no more octane than 93 i too had run 107 race fuel to combat heat which got insane expensive
so what compression ratio for road racing.

Also dry sump vs wet sump

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post #8 of 26 Old 05-03-2011, 08:05 AM
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For the intended purpose, inches trump RPM IMHO, but 7000 rpm is no problem with the correct valvetrain even with the large stroke. I would consider (and speak with persons more knowledgeble then me) a TLSR (solid roller) though.

Big inches, big heads, converted super vic intake, light valvetrain, shaft rockers, custom cam, etc...

A cheaper solution that I have ran was a stroked windsor with a Vortech. This can make ludicrous power on very small boost so the heat is not that bad. You would not need near as expensive of an engine to make great power. Still be more nose heavy and more heat then NA but relatively inexpensive and reliable for the power produced.
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post #9 of 26 Old 05-03-2011, 08:14 AM
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my 408 was 10.5:1 compression. thats about as high as i would take it while running 93 octane, unless your tuner is REALLY good. i ran my engine to 6500, where it ran out of head flow. you are going to want flow in the 330+ range for 7grand. i will say that my engine seemed like it would be more than happy to go higher if it could breathe.

go with as much cubes as you can get away with. its going to be big bucks to run reliably at 7000+ no matter what displacement. i may get shot for this but, have you considered an LS7 swap? it seems to be exactly what you are modelling your engine plans after...with the benefit of durability tested parts and a lightweight aluminum block. those things can make killer power.

THE PAST:1980 GLX, 1979 turbo GT, 1986 SVO, 1982 T-top GT, 1986 SVO, 1990 7-up Special, 1994 GT, 1995 GT Road Course Racer [email protected]
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post #10 of 26 Old 05-03-2011, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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I actually did think about the ls7 i really like i but overall cost scared me away from that. I had a 2002 zo6 with a ls6 and that engine was awesome it was 346ci and made 380rwhp 365tq would run 12.20s with run flats incredible high rpm power. But talking about around 11 grand for a ls7


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post #11 of 26 Old 05-03-2011, 12:19 PM
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Realistically, you will have that much in a big well performing aftermarket block windsor as well unless you already have parts. Personally if staying windsor and staying NA I would use a stock 9.5 deck block. Lighter and cheaper. I made 650rwhp with a stock 9.5 roller block and all the bearings looked fine after 10k or so miles. I shifted at 6900 ish. this was NOT a road course car but it made alot more power then you are talking also.
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post #12 of 26 Old 05-03-2011, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Csg how did you make 650 rwhp most i have seen are between 420rwhp-530rwhp

I have 2 351w stock roller blocks now and a edlerbrock supervictor efi intake with a wilson 90mm adapter also stock distributor.

I was going use a boss block im open to suggestions.

The heads i have looked at are mind boggling The top 2 i have been considering is afr 225 and tfs r 225. Tfs also makes a 240cc....

Im am open to solid roller cam.

Jay

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post #13 of 26 Old 05-03-2011, 03:30 PM
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That was with boost. I was just including that as an example of the capability of a stock 9.5 deck block. I used AFR225's on that engine and another set on my Dart 347, good heads. TFS-R's, TW 205's, AFR225's, CNC High Ports... The head choice may change depending on the block you choose. A .030 overbore will benefit from rolled valve's more than a .125 over bore.
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post #14 of 26 Old 05-04-2011, 04:25 PM
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IMOHO, its 50/50.
I will stick with my tried and true Vortech, but run with many of my friends that run 408W and 427W and 383W.
The big motor has hp/torque 500/500 and that is nice, but also weighs 100# more than a 302. Although you add an S-trim for 75# (?)...

if it were me with your 331, I would run air-to-air intercooler, and keep the original motor. For under $1K you could keep 550hp motor...

Darius Rudis

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post #15 of 26 Old 05-05-2011, 08:04 AM
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Btw, shipping label on one of my s-trims showed 47lbs. So weight should be somewhere less than that.
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post #16 of 26 Old 05-05-2011, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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I am very torn still thinking about all of this. I have pulled down about all the 408/427s at the road racing tracks on the straightaways. Although most where prolly not built as hard as they could be. The relible less maintaince is na. Intercooler for my 95 gt would be to difficult and screwy piping and cost about 1000-1500 total that why decided to dump it.
I really love the power with boost and think it would have more power with single t-76 on this 331 wonder if my power steering line would melt othe plastic parts.....

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post #17 of 26 Old 05-05-2011, 12:34 PM
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With out a doubt the T76 can make more power... until the manifold cracks anyway. If you don't mind spending real money then it can work. Check out Rocco's old setup as an example. The normal "kit" is going to have issues on a road course. I would go remote mount, water cooled, turbo supported off the chassis, lots of very high quality flex couplers, trunk mount radiator for the air/water intercooler and for the turbo water cooling, etc... Going to add quite a bit of weight but it could be a power monster if that's what you are after.
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post #18 of 26 Old 05-05-2011, 02:00 PM
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i've seen Rocco's car. there was TONS of money in that turbo setup and if i read correctly, it is not currently in the car, so it may not have lasted. maybe you should just buy his car! i think its still for sale?

be prepared for the unpredictability of turbo spool up. rolling on the throttle exiting a turn is going to be something to get used to. there is a 66 mustang in NASA-Mid Atlantic running a turbo in American Iron Extreme. he is a total turd in the corners, but just uses jaw dropping straight line speed to keep pace.

btw, i enjoyed your Road Atlanta video (set to eye of the tiger. nice touch!) with that nasty 331 s/c. would love to see whatever comes next.

THE PAST:1980 GLX, 1979 turbo GT, 1986 SVO, 1982 T-top GT, 1986 SVO, 1990 7-up Special, 1994 GT, 1995 GT Road Course Racer [email protected]
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post #19 of 26 Old 05-05-2011, 03:38 PM
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Have you looked at meth injection for the supercharger? It cools the air charge and acts as an octane booster. It's also cheap.

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post #20 of 26 Old 05-06-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang-madness View Post
i've seen Rocco's car. there was TONS of money in that turbo setup and if i read correctly, it is not currently in the car, so it may not have lasted. maybe you should just buy his car! i think its still for sale?

be prepared for the unpredictability of turbo spool up. rolling on the throttle exiting a turn is going to be something to get used to. there is a 66 mustang in NASA-Mid Atlantic running a turbo in American Iron Extreme. he is a total turd in the corners, but just uses jaw dropping straight line speed to keep pace.

btw, i enjoyed your Road Atlanta video (set to eye of the tiger. nice touch!) with that nasty 331 s/c. would love to see whatever comes next.
It would be interesting to try one of the high priced turbo timers to make the turbo act more like a centrifugal as for as boost delivery. I guess then defeat the purpose of going turbo though...
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post #21 of 26 Old 05-06-2011, 09:07 AM
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My buddy's 427 (built for open track) with untouched Z304 heads and TFS-R box intake just put down 505/503 to the wheels with peak power at 6200rpm. Clearly there's more in it with some porting work on those heads too.
I would go with the bigger cubes, simplcity and lower rpm advantages that a 427 offers. Keeping the revs down will only add to the longevity as well.
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post #22 of 26 Old 05-15-2011, 07:54 PM
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428 with a good block, solid roller, 7k HP peak good to almost 8K, 612rwhp 560rwtq. If that doesn't do it for you, you've got serious thrill issues!





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post #23 of 26 Old 05-17-2011, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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Wow that is impressive what heads are those is that dart iron eagle block?
I would like build that what compression does it take to make that kind of power.

Still need to decide which way to go.

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post #24 of 26 Old 05-17-2011, 10:56 PM
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They're fox lake ported TFSR heads and it is a Dart block with the 2.75" mains. That motor is 13:1 and the rwhp was through an automatic and a SDS DFI system with a converted super victor and 90mm t/b. I'm sure you could do just as well now with different parts, this motor was built almost 8 years ago. I know someone with a similar build with less compression running pump gas that makes similar power.
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post #25 of 26 Old 06-13-2011, 09:40 PM
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I went with a 383 stroker kit for m 351, I wanted to rev it and make good torque without running into heating issues or clearance problems.
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post #26 of 26 Old 04-19-2012, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Well bringing this thread back to Life after almost 1 year

I made my choice.......

Ordered a BG turbo Turbo Kit with a Precision T76 been working on it for feels like forever .....

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