Building 24 Hours of Lemons 5.0 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 02-23-2011, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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Cool Building 24 Hours of Lemons 5.0

The title pretty much says it all!

We have a '91 RX-7, and we're tired of feeding it rotary engines. We blew the coolant seal/cracked iron on the first, broken apex seal on our second motor we bought used, and don't want to sink the money into tuning our third motor which is bridgeported.

I have a 40,000 mile 5.0/T5 setup with wiring harness and computer that will be going into the car.

We don't care about making tons of power, stock this thing will pump out more than the little 13b, and have torque all over the place.

The motor will be stock for the time being. I am pulling the heads to replace the top end gaskets, and looking to replace/fix anything for longevity sake. This is an endurance race, so its going to need to last!

We will keep the rev's down, with stock intake and heads it won't be making any steam up top anyways. That being said, I still want to install ARP rod bolts and new valve springs.

Along with head gaskets(any recommendations?), I will use ARP head bolts. They will be reuseable in case we need to change a head gasket at the track. I'll also use the nice rubber/reinforced valve cover gaskets, so we can reuse them.

185 T-stat and the car already has an electric fan wired up to help keep things cool.

How does this look to everyone? Am I spending money on anything thats a waste? Am I missing anything?

Oiling is still on my mind, I will be running the stock double sump pan, but still looking up plans on how to modify it. Additionally, an ARP or Ford Racing oil pump driveshaft will be cheap insurance. Should I just run the stock oil pump?

Sorry for the long-winded thread, hopefully I'll give some ideas to others looking to build something similar. Thanks!


1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #2 of 49 Old 02-23-2011, 08:35 PM
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isn't the car supposed to cost less than 500$?


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post #3 of 49 Old 02-23-2011, 08:49 PM
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I have an 80 RX7; the little 12A is a surprising motor. As I recall the stock rear gear is in the 3.90 - 4.xx range which means your revs won't be all that low even with the T-5's 5th gear. With stock springs on the heads you will probably be done at 5500. I think I'd do a stock 195 t-stat so you are assured the computer will go closed loop. Sounds fun though. Using a conversion kit?
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post #4 of 49 Old 02-23-2011, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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isn't the car supposed to cost less than 500$?
We got a nice low residual value after we blew the motor at the last race. The rest of it is to do a good job hiding it all, and bribing the judges.

We'll take any penalty laps, just to get the car on the track. We don't plan on winning, just having a good time! It'll cancel out for the next race and we ought to be able to race with no penalty next time out.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #5 of 49 Old 02-23-2011, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
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I have an 80 RX7; the little 12A is a surprising motor. As I recall the stock rear gear is in the 3.90 - 4.xx range which means your revs won't be all that low even with the T-5's 5th gear. With stock springs on the heads you will probably be done at 5500. I think I'd do a stock 195 t-stat so you are assured the computer will go closed loop. Sounds fun though. Using a conversion kit?
My first lemons race was in an FB with a 12A, that thing was so much fun. Light, nimble, very well balanced and revved forever.

Not sure what gears are in this car, I'll need to check it out. Its a convertible, and has 4 piston calipers up front from the factory, and discs out rear. We loaded them up with Hawk Blue's...I think they'll be just fine!

As far as RPM, there aren't many long straights in Lemons, they try to tame the top speeds with tire chicanes. Of the races I've been in, I think 95 was the fastest we got. This car will have more power though so it will be capable of more.

Any recommendations on valve springs? I don't WANT to rev it high, but having the ability would be nice in tight situations.

We're going with the Granny's Speed kit, and keeping the RX7 style hydraulic clutch setup.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels

Last edited by Stang Man; 02-23-2011 at 10:42 PM.
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post #6 of 49 Old 02-23-2011, 11:14 PM
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May I suggest a ford n/a 2.3 instead? Yes the 302 will have way more power all around, but you are asking for rear axle trouble and they are going to nail your ass to a wall if you do a halfway proper V8 conversion in that car.

Now, you grab an el-cheapo 2.3 carb motor, a used e-bay cam, mill the hell out out the head to get the static CR up, do a half ass port job with a decent valve job and it will run. It will be cheaper, you will fly through BS tech, and you can beat the #### out of it (7k RPM's) all day long.

No wait, don't do any of that. Our team wants to be the first to win with a n/a 2.3.....
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post #7 of 49 Old 02-23-2011, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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May I suggest a ford n/a 2.3 instead? Yes the 302 will have way more power all around, but you are asking for rear axle trouble and they are going to nail your ass to a wall if you do a halfway proper V8 conversion in that car.

Now, you grab an el-cheapo 2.3 carb motor, a used e-bay cam, mill the hell out out the head to get the static CR up, do a half ass port job with a decent valve job and it will run. It will be cheaper, you will fly through BS tech, and you can beat the #### out of it (7k RPM's) all day long.

No wait, don't do any of that. Our team wants to be the first to win with a n/a 2.3.....
Not a bad idea, but we have the motor and tranny already from an earlier project!

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #8 of 49 Old 02-25-2011, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Does anyone have an opinion on the valvesprings? The heads will be off while I do the top-end gaskets, it would be a good time to do get the springs done.

Whats the failure rate on stock, low mileage pieces? What about when you show them long run time and high temps, as with an endurance race?

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #9 of 49 Old 02-28-2011, 01:45 PM
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Does anyone have an opinion on the valvesprings? The heads will be off while I do the top-end gaskets, it would be a good time to do get the springs done.

Whats the failure rate on stock, low mileage pieces? What about when you show them long run time and high temps, as with an endurance race?
I think oiling tends to be the major killer for 5.0's at lemons. Hunt around for levyracing, they campaign a 5.0L in lemons.

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post #10 of 49 Old 02-28-2011, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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I think oiling tends to be the major killer for 5.0's at lemons. Hunt around for levyracing, they campaign a 5.0L in lemons.
I'll look into it! For now its looking like some simple baffles, a larger oil filter if possible, and a half or full quart of extra oil.


1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #11 of 49 Old 03-02-2011, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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We pulled the motor apart last night. The main and rod bearings have some wear, my buddy said they'd likely last for another 50k of street driving. We're doing anything BUT street driving, so I'm going to plasti-gauge a fresh set and go from there. What clearances should I look to run for this type of application- endurance road racing?

None of the bearings had spun, and the journals all look good with no gouging, so I'll likely clean it all up really well and just install the new ones.

I'll need to post pics later, but I've also started removing the factory MAzda wiring harness. This thing is a mess, but its so large it'll really help offset some of the weight we've gained going with the V8.

Still waiting on the Granny Speed kit before I can get it all installed, I'll keep you all updated.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #12 of 49 Old 03-02-2011, 03:33 PM
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Does anyone have an opinion on the valvesprings? The heads will be off while I do the top-end gaskets, it would be a good time to do get the springs done.
I have some 5.0L valve springs you can have. No idea what the seat pressures are though. You'll want to have a machine shop check them. Wayne Calvert can do this.

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post #13 of 49 Old 03-02-2011, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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I have some 5.0L valve springs you can have. No idea what the seat pressures are though. You'll want to have a machine shop check them. Wayne Calvert can do this.
I went ahead with the Trick Flow kit, good to .54X" lift and comes with springs, retainers, locks, and valve seals. thanks though!

I'll clean the heads and hand-lap the valves, but thats about all the work these stock heads will see.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #14 of 49 Old 03-02-2011, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a picture of the car at the first race....where it blew up after 15 laps!


What it looked like a few days ago


A picture of whats to come!


Motor stripped down, it'll get new bearings. I hope the rings are alright, all the cylinder walls look good.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #15 of 49 Old 03-03-2011, 09:14 AM
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FWIW, make sure you run a decent oil cooler. With the stock motor you'll have oil temps over 300 degrees within a few laps. Even the FMS unit will drop it to 240 or so.

With the stock top end you might consider a higher OD for the T5. The car won't pull the .68 OD. The .80 would be ideal. Give Bruce at Modern Driveline or Tony at Astro a buzz. Of course your rear gear will determine quite a bit too.

Just my $.02
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post #16 of 49 Old 03-03-2011, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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FWIW, make sure you run a decent oil cooler. With the stock motor you'll have oil temps over 300 degrees within a few laps. Even the FMS unit will drop it to 240 or so.

With the stock top end you might consider a higher OD for the T5. The car won't pull the .68 OD. The .80 would be ideal. Give Bruce at Modern Driveline or Tony at Astro a buzz. Of course your rear gear will determine quite a bit too.

Just my $.02
The oil cooler is a good idea. The RX7 has one from the factory, but its lines are terrible and leaky anyways. It'd be easier and likely cheaper to go with a new system from scratch.

We'll need to find a place in the budget for it during the season.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #17 of 49 Old 03-09-2011, 02:19 PM
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Keep it cool! I've done 8 LeMons races and have seen several 5.0s suffer because they overheat. Get a good radiator, oil cooler, and lots of air flow.

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post #18 of 49 Old 03-09-2011, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Keep it cool! I've done 8 LeMons races and have seen several 5.0s suffer because they overheat. Get a good radiator, oil cooler, and lots of air flow.
I am going to run the stock RX-7 radiator for now. Its larger than the stock 5.0 radiator, too. I don't see it going long term, I just want to get the car movign under its own power.

It will likely get a larger radiator and a "newer" balancer before it sees its first Lemons race. I'd like to get some miles under its belt for shakedown purposes, whether it be at the drag strip, auto-X, or a trackday.

For an update, the rings were way out of spec, and the pistons a tad undersized. The clearance between the pistons and bore was ok though so we touched up the cylinders with a 3-stone on a drill, and installed new rings.

The shortblock is back together- ended up taking new rings, main and rod bearings, timing chain (no gears, just chain), ARP head bolts, Trick Flow valve spring kit, and of course all new gaskets.

Thankfully, a lot of these costs will be offset by selling off the RX-7 parts.

The motor mount stuff finally came in, the kit is very straightforward. 5 attachment points, no cutting/drilling/welding, and its installed. The transmission mount even uses the stock mounting locations and hardware.

All I'm lacking now is a starter and shifter(which I'll need to buy), and the tranny/bellhousing, which is at a buddy's house.

Its coming along, I'm excited to get it running! I'm going to estimate a stock power output of 195 hp and 290 tq- which should get this light car up to speed pretty quickly!

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #19 of 49 Old 03-11-2011, 03:06 PM
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The oil cooler is a good idea. The RX7 has one from the factory, but its lines are terrible and leaky anyways. It'd be easier and likely cheaper to go with a new system from scratch.

We'll need to find a place in the budget for it during the season.
Yep, or you could get new fittings for the RX cooler. A couple buddies are dropping an LS1 in their RX-7, so we've been going through the trials of what can get reused and what needs to be bought/fabbed.

The factory cooler was pretty nice.
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post #20 of 49 Old 03-14-2011, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Yep, or you could get new fittings for the RX cooler. A couple buddies are dropping an LS1 in their RX-7, so we've been going through the trials of what can get reused and what needs to be bought/fabbed.

The factory cooler was pretty nice.
Its a decent cooler, where did your buddies find the fittings at?

Thanks!

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #21 of 49 Old 06-06-2011, 05:09 PM
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You're going to over heat. Ask me how I know

Seriously, we were worried about power steering pumps and electric gremlins in our effort - but we ended up losing a battle with heat and blew a head gasket. (Before that went - we were also in to change thermostat and intake gasket while chasing down the problem.) Eventually, the damage from oil mixing with water took out the oil pump with 40 minutes remaining.

When we worked our budget - I left room for gaskets all around, and good oil. Man, the good oil really helped save the engine when things got tough.

Cut a hole in the hood behind radiator to extract heat and make radiator flow better.

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post #22 of 49 Old 06-11-2011, 12:47 PM
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Its a decent cooler, where did your buddies find the fittings at?

Thanks!
Sorry man I missed your question the first time. Right here.

RX7 1986-1992: Oil System: Oil Hose Adapter Fitting - 18MM to -10 Hose -

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post #23 of 49 Old 09-22-2011, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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You're going to over heat. Ask me how I know

Seriously, we were worried about power steering pumps and electric gremlins in our effort - but we ended up losing a battle with heat and blew a head gasket. (Before that went - we were also in to change thermostat and intake gasket while chasing down the problem.) Eventually, the damage from oil mixing with water took out the oil pump with 40 minutes remaining.

When we worked our budget - I left room for gaskets all around, and good oil. Man, the good oil really helped save the engine when things got tough.

Cut a hole in the hood behind radiator to extract heat and make radiator flow better.
We've actually already got a vent aft of the radiator/fan shroud, just for this issue. Due to the motor being so tall, there are going to be a LOT of holes in the hood to clear the intake, dizzy cap, and alternator.

It has been a while, but I wanted to give you all an update. The race is the first weekend in October, and the car still doesn't run! The good news is, we're " " this close to getting her fired up!

Motor, tranny, and driveshaft are all in. Got the 2 into 1 side exit exhaust finished up yesterday, as well as our engine and computer grounds.

It has been a long road, with a lot of ghetto-fab work going into it, but it should be a solid vehicle! The hydraulic clutch works good, as well as out custom-made throttle cable.

I'll need to get under the car and snap some pictures of all the work, and post them up here for your perusal.

Heres a rundown of what we did:
1987 speed density HO motor, home cylinder clean-up and new rod and main bearings, and rings.
Added baffles into stock oil pan.
All seals/gaskets
Stripped all accessories except for the alternator.
'93 mini hi-torque starter.
No-name King Cobra HD clutch.

All of our stock stuff is sold which helped cover the costs, and having the motor and whatnot just laying around made it affordable. We may end up over budget, but we're not in this race to win, just to have fun. If it all stays together this race, we'll most likely end up upgrading the harmonic dampener and radiator, and looking at ways to cool the engine oil and diff as well.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #24 of 49 Old 09-22-2011, 09:57 PM
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The rules aren't very clear for "parts" laying around, but for ChumpCar (we have ChumpCar races here all the time), you have to declare "market" value of parts you get or use. Such as a "302/t-5 laying around", and I'm not finding too many V-8 T5s for under $500.

That right there would disqualify you in Chumpcar, but like I said, the rules aren't clear for LeMons.

If you get away with, the best of luck to you.

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4.1: Total Investment in Vehicle Can Not Exceed $500: Except for items described in Rules 4.2 and 4.3, the total spent to purchase and prepare any car may not exceed $500.
4.1.1: Lame-Ass Rationalizations: Cars that "should be" worth $500 don't count; cars that "were worth $500" before you spent another $2000 to fix them don't count; cars you've owned for 20 years and spent more than $500 on during that time don't count; "it would have been worth $500 if it didn't already have a cage" doesn't count. Five hundred dollars means five hundred frickin' dollars.

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post #25 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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The rules aren't very clear for "parts" laying around, but for ChumpCar (we have ChumpCar races here all the time), you have to declare "market" value of parts you get or use. Such as a "302/t-5 laying around", and I'm not finding too many V-8 T5s for under $500.

That right there would disqualify you in Chumpcar, but like I said, the rules aren't clear for LeMons.

If you get away with, the best of luck to you.
Well the motor and tranny were from a totalled car that was bought back from insurance for $76. No receipt to prove it, but its all good.

Lemons, if they believe you're over budget, will simply dock you laps. We just want to get out there, test the setup, and have fun. They also allow bribes to reduce your penalty laps

On another note, what are you guys using to seal the radiator to the front bumper? I need something light and cheap, that'll hold up to rivets with large fender washers.

We're going to open up the hole in the bumper, and seal the entire thing off to the radiator. With high pressure up front, and low pressure inside the engine bay (due to cooling vents), it should funnel quite a bit of air through the radiator at speed.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #26 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 10:26 AM
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Lemons, if they believe you're over budget, will simply dock you laps. We just want to get out there, test the setup, and have fun. They also allow bribes to reduce your penalty laps
You've got the right attitude for LeMons! :thumbsup: As long as you have some documentation, don't have obviously cheaty go-fast bits, and have a general positive attitude, you'll be fine. Try to get Judge Phil to do your BS inspection, he has been personally involved with two 302 swapped LeMons cars and doesn't sweat them (Volvo 240 and Model T GT).

85 Ford LTD LX - One of 3260 LXs, Cobra SEFI conversion, AFR 165s, T5, Cobra brakes, buncha other stuff
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post #27 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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You've got the right attitude for LeMons! :thumbsup: As long as you have some documentation, don't have obviously cheaty go-fast bits, and have a general positive attitude, you'll be fine. Try to get Judge Phil to do your BS inspection, he has been personally involved with two 302 swapped LeMons cars and doesn't sweat them (Volvo 240 and Model T GT).
We'll see if we can get lucky! Its a stock motor, the stock power and torque should get us around track just fine if we keep the RPM's in check and the temperature down

I've raced in a few different Lemons cars, this car is all mine though. The previous race we lasted 16 laps or something before the case cracked and popped a coolant seal. Hopefully the 5.0 is a little more reliable and, more importantly, easier to work on.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #28 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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I also wanted to post a heads up- without an engine ground, the started won't work Actually, even if it did fire, I doubt ANYTHING would work.

The simple things slip through sometimes, but we got that issue fixed up with some solid grounds- one going directly to the starter bolt from the K-member.

This is going to be another silly question, but does anyone have any oil recommendations for this type of race/motor? We'll be running the regular Motorcraft FL1-A oil filter. As of now, air temps look to be in the high 80's to mid 90's.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #29 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 11:48 AM
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Well the motor and tranny were from a totalled car that was bought back from insurance for $76. No receipt to prove it, but its all good.

Lemons, if they believe you're over budget, will simply dock you laps. We just want to get out there, test the setup, and have fun. They also allow bribes to reduce your penalty laps


On another note, what are you guys using to seal the radiator to the front bumper? I need something light and cheap, that'll hold up to rivets with large fender washers.

We're going to open up the hole in the bumper, and seal the entire thing off to the radiator. With high pressure up front, and low pressure inside the engine bay (due to cooling vents), it should funnel quite a bit of air through the radiator at speed.
Awesome. In ChumpCar, they dock laps too.

I'd like to just get out there and run laps too. Track Time is track time......

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post #30 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome. In ChumpCar, they dock laps too.

I'd like to just get out there and run laps too. Track Time is track time......
Its a blast. If you take it for what it is- track time, comraderie, hoopty engineering, and fun, you'll always come out a winner. A lot of teams take it way too serious, though.

We may campaign for a season points championship in the future, but for now we're just looking to get a solid foundation that will hold together for more than 16 laps

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #31 of 49 Old 09-23-2011, 02:35 PM
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This year, I've been focusing on flagging the races (ChumpCar, SOVREN, NWMS...), learning all the rules and getting to talk to a bunch of people about their experiences. The camaraderie is unbelievable.

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post #32 of 49 Old 09-26-2011, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Welp, we got the car fired up! Fixed a vacuum leak, and it has a solid idle and runs great! This thing makes a #### ton of torque- stock headers, 2.5" pipes Y'd into a 3" pipe, and a single 3" muffler that exits to the passenger side. The engine feels awesome in the car, very responsive and smooth revving.

We have an exhaust leak at the ball-socket on the driver's side, and we'll fix this today while we repair the tailshaft seal in the transmission. We did a little driving around yesterday without any issues, but things will be a LOT different on track.

My biggest concern right now is the front sway bar. The stock one contacts the front hump in the oil pan, so it had to be removed. I got another one off of a Mercedes at the junkyard, but it is TOO long and hits the radiator. We're going to cut and sleeve/weld it to shorten it, and that will give us the ability to fine tune its length to fit our setup. We have access to a machine shop so welding the sway bar shouldn't be an issue- worst case scenario we break out $30 swaybar.

With the little added weight up front the sway bar is imperative. There is just too much body roll up front, and I don't want to punish the outside tire any more than we already are.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #33 of 49 Old 09-26-2011, 09:40 PM
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Various fox platforms had longer sway bar brackets to avoid the problem you describe above. Thunderbird brackets or LTD, etc., may solve your problem for basically free and allow you to use the bar you already have.
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post #34 of 49 Old 09-27-2011, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Various fox platforms had longer sway bar brackets to avoid the problem you describe above. Thunderbird brackets or LTD, etc., may solve your problem for basically free and allow you to use the bar you already have.
Lowering the bar almost works, but the swaybar hits the tie rod end where they intersect- the sway bar is ABOVE the tie rod, unable to run it below because it will hit the control arm.

Our train of thought right now is to actually make out own sway bar. Access to various types of steel, machine shop, CNC machines, and some engineering friends, may have us headed in the right direction It would be a straight bar, with welded on blades. We'd have a few different mounting holes for the endlinks to give us a little bit of adjustment once we get some seat time in it.

The motor is a little heavier than the rotary, if we could fit some aluminum heads into the budget it would help immensely. For the time being we plan on a stiffer sway bar, and maybe in time for the following race we can go with some higher rate springs and adjust the stiffness down on the swaybar.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels

Last edited by Stang Man; 09-27-2011 at 11:03 AM.
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post #35 of 49 Old 09-27-2011, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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Update:

Our of curiousity, my buddy ran the calcs for the different scrap rollbar tubing we have, just to see how they may fare:

Stock bar has ~58* deflection

1.75 x .120 DOM has 10* deflection before permanent bending, spring rate of 133,372 lbf/in is almost 10x stiffer than stock.

1.5 x .090 DOM has 12* deflection before permanent bending, spring rate of 64,660 lbf/in is about 5x stiffer than stock.

These are obviously not ideal, so we're checking out some other steels to see what we can get our hands on. Worst case scenario is run the 5x stiffer bar until something breaks, then ditch the bar and go without for the duration of the race. Due to its mounting, if it bent/broke it shouldn't affect anything else.

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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