Another "what pad" thread. Fox(400+rwhp) with 2300-K for Road America - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 34 Old 01-27-2011, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Another "what pad" thread. Fox(400+rwhp) with 2300-K for Road America

I know this has been beaten to death, but I still wonder what pads I should be looking at for the Road America OT in August. See my sig for car mods. It’s hard to tell, but I’m guessing 150+mph on the straights(3 times/lap) is likely.
Firstly, do you think the 2300-K brakes will be up to the task of 20 min sessions? I plan on getting new pads(and probably rotors) for the track and only race 1 time a year. Brake fluid will be flushed with some good synthetic stuff and I know the brakes depend on driving aggressiveness.

I’ve only really found out about the Carbotech pads, but not sure which ones to get. Seems like XP-10 front and XP-8 rear is a common combo. Will this combo be up to the task of slowing down after RA’s long straights?

What about EBC? Are the yellows a good choice?

Or, Hawk HP+?

I’d just like some input as I had issues with a stock Fox with stock brakes at the same track many moons ago and I don’t want to go through the same thing again. Especially with over 2x the power.


'89 Notch: 3O4, Novi 2K/12psi, TFS heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, Cobra Intake, Tremec, Spec Stg. 2, C springs, Konis,MM CC plates, Cobra brake conversion w/ Bullitt wheels, and more crap. [email protected] with no tune- New BBK Long tubes, x-pipe and Tweecer RT and 436rwhp/432rwtq.
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post #2 of 34 Old 01-27-2011, 10:06 AM
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XP10's and 8's is a decent starting point, but if you think the rest of your car will stay cool enough that you'll be hot-lapping the whole 20 minutes, you might step up to a 12/10 combo.

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post #3 of 34 Old 01-27-2011, 10:30 AM
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Just get the XP12s, I can hardly notice any increase in rotor wear compared to the 10s and there is a significant performance increase. I tried different compounds front and rear, 12s in front and 10s in rear. With this setup I could not get enough braking force out of the rears, I switched to 12s front and back and everything is kosher.

Cobra brakes should be fine for you.

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post #4 of 34 Old 01-27-2011, 11:34 AM
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Do not get Hawk HP+. That's really an autocross compound, with a sharp falloff in grip as temp increases.
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post #5 of 34 Old 01-27-2011, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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I'm hoping my cooling can handle it, but not sure. I know with the blower it will be generating a ton of heat. I do have an oversized aluminum radiator, so I guess we'll see.

I really don't know how I'm going to drive on the track. Last time I was there I was in a stock stang. Stock brakes lasted a few laps until we got past the "slower" people. Then, 2 turns later(turn 8) 1 buddy spun out(to avoid hitting the wall). My other buddy was ahead of me going into Canada corner(same lap). He went off into the pea gravel and I eeked my way through. After that, there was a lot of coasting going into all corners.

If I don't plan on going balls out, will the XP12's still be good?

'89 Notch: 3O4, Novi 2K/12psi, TFS heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, Cobra Intake, Tremec, Spec Stg. 2, C springs, Konis,MM CC plates, Cobra brake conversion w/ Bullitt wheels, and more crap. [email protected] with no tune- New BBK Long tubes, x-pipe and Tweecer RT and 436rwhp/432rwtq.
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post #6 of 34 Old 01-27-2011, 02:46 PM
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I'm hoping my cooling can handle it, but not sure. I know with the blower it will be generating a ton of heat. I do have an oversized aluminum radiator, so I guess we'll see.

I really don't know how I'm going to drive on the track. Last time I was there I was in a stock stang. Stock brakes lasted a few laps until we got past the "slower" people. Then, 2 turns later(turn 8) 1 buddy spun out(to avoid hitting the wall). My other buddy was ahead of me going into Canada corner(same lap). He went off into the pea gravel and I eeked my way through. After that, there was a lot of coasting going into all corners.

If I don't plan on going balls out, will the XP12's still be good?
The cobra brakes with 12s should be fine. I never had a problem with them all the way up through HPDE 4 running on RA1s. I also never had a problem with them in TT running on A6s, but we typically run 2 hard laps in TT before hitting traffic and slowing down. The only time I had an issue was when I had my first competitive race. 6 laps on A6s in a race and they began to feel a little scary. The pedal was fine but the car just wasn't stopping as good as it had. It was manageable but I certainly did like worrying about brakes while trying to finish a race.

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post #7 of 34 Old 01-30-2011, 11:06 AM
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As already mentioned, Hawk HP+ would not survive. I've run the Hawk DTC60s and DTC70s on my CTS-V and have had good results.

I think this year I'm going to try the Carbotech XP16s.

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post #8 of 34 Old 01-30-2011, 10:53 PM
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The one thing to do is to rig up some type of brake cooling ducts. While dryer exhaust piping is not "cool" it's cheap and for once a year OT event it's easy to set up. After the event you can throw it away.

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post #9 of 34 Old 02-01-2011, 12:46 AM
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I've been using HP+ for open track for 2 20 minute sessions, no issues. Funny so many are saying not to use them? When I made my post for suggestions I got quite a few HP+ recommends.

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post #10 of 34 Old 02-04-2011, 10:23 AM
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If you're looking for a pad to run on the street and the track, something like the HP+ is about as good as you'll find, which I imagine is why people recommended them. There are many of us who don't want to run a dual-use pad, because it limits how hard we can drive on track. Some people are hard on brakes, some aren't. In my experience, an aggressive street pad (which is what the HP+ is) won't stand up to my braking style for more than a couple of laps.


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post #11 of 34 Old 02-04-2011, 10:42 AM
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HP+ may work for some, but it can depend on the track, car, and driving level. I glazed a set of HP+ pads on a track easy on brakes (Roebling Road) with only 300rwhp. I have been doing performance driving for over a decade though so I will be pushing the limits more than someone that just started.

Road America is known to be hard on brakes. Someone just starting out may get away with HP+ pads, but if you add power and start driving aggressive, they will fade. At that point it is hard to beat physics.

Been using XP10s all around and I am very happy. Stops a lot harder even when cold, and they don't fade. I can even drive them on the street and they don't squeal.

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post #12 of 34 Old 02-04-2011, 10:51 AM
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I've been using HP+ for open track for 2 20 minute sessions, no issues. Funny so many are saying not to use them? When I made my post for suggestions I got quite a few HP+ recommends.
I used the HP+ pads for my first four track days and they held up fine, dropping off only once. Car was ~3500lbs (w/ driver and fluid), street tires, and cooling ducts. The track had three main braking zones. While I think the HP+ pads are good, they are the minimum I'd want to use. Therefore, they would be good for someone starting out that isn't braking 10/10ths every time or is easy on brakes. I'm currently using up an old set of HT-8 pads. I'd like to check out some Carbotech pads next.

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post #13 of 34 Old 02-06-2011, 01:23 PM
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Daily? who in the Flip would daily on HP+'s? They make aweful noise and make so much brake dust its like the wheels get rattled canned with spray paint.

I switch the HP+ pads and rotors for track events.

The HPS and rotors in there now are for daily/auto-x.

Crap this sucks. I mainly intended my pad choice for open track. So many had recommended HP+. I'm slightly pissed now. Any website to look at the XP type pads? I didn't want to skimp on pads because I plan on taking a blast down Millers 1 mile straight this year. (full track config) My car should at least hit 150-160. Althought at this point I consider myself a 7/10ths driver. I'm still trying to focus on line rather than speed, but in my car. The speed is easy.

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post #14 of 34 Old 02-06-2011, 09:55 PM
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I'm running the ebc red stuff pads. Thus far the few times that ive been able to drive it, they stop 100 times better then stock stuff. As they get warm they begin to grab even better... I cannot say as to how they will last on the track, but as a multi purpose pad, i would say they are pretty good.
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post #15 of 34 Old 02-07-2011, 07:33 AM
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Any website to look at the XP type pads?
ctbrakes.com
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post #16 of 34 Old 07-05-2011, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Bring this back up TTT.

I have a chance to pick up some Wilwood 'A' compound pads for the front and rear. Would these be a good choice vs. a Carbotech combo? I was thinking of XP10 front/XP8 rear for the carbotechs. There are a few options for the rear also, 'A', 'H', or 'E' compounds. Does anyone have any experience with these pads?

'89 Notch: 3O4, Novi 2K/12psi, TFS heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, Cobra Intake, Tremec, Spec Stg. 2, C springs, Konis,MM CC plates, Cobra brake conversion w/ Bullitt wheels, and more crap. [email protected] with no tune- New BBK Long tubes, x-pipe and Tweecer RT and 436rwhp/432rwtq.
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post #17 of 34 Old 07-05-2011, 11:17 PM
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I've tried the H pads. They wear like iron, and offer aggressive braking. They also stand up incredibly well to heat. The only negative is that they eat rotors. Be prepared to bring spares as you there is a good chance you will crack them. The A's are a more aggressive pad. I don't know enough about the E's. I have only used Carbotech Xp10s. They are easy on rotors in comparison, but wear a lot faster. Stopping power is good though.

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post #18 of 34 Old 07-10-2011, 05:11 PM
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Have you guys tried the EBC Blue Stuff pads, I have used them and I've been really impressed with their function, they even have good cold bite. I have actually put them on my street car now and they are great there to.

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post #19 of 34 Old 07-10-2011, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Well, talked to Mike Jr. at Carbotech and he recommended I get XP10's Front/AX6 rear. I asked about getting the XP8's for the rear and he said that they wouldn't show much of a difference with street rubber. I ordered up the XP10/AX6 combo. That should give me 2 weeks before the track even to get them on, rotors seasoned and pads bedded. I'm getting excited for my first track event in a few years.

'89 Notch: 3O4, Novi 2K/12psi, TFS heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, Cobra Intake, Tremec, Spec Stg. 2, C springs, Konis,MM CC plates, Cobra brake conversion w/ Bullitt wheels, and more crap. [email protected] with no tune- New BBK Long tubes, x-pipe and Tweecer RT and 436rwhp/432rwtq.
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post #20 of 34 Old 07-11-2011, 12:16 PM
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not trying to steal your tread but im also researching pads since next month im attanding my first ever track day and plan on really getting into it. my 2001 cobra is a track only car so i was thinking about the Hawp DTC-60's or 70's, or Carbotech XP10's or XP 12's. how do you determine which combo is best

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post #21 of 34 Old 07-11-2011, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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I determined which pads I want by doing lots of searching and reviewing. From what I’ve heard, the Carbotechs are relatively easy on rotors, and work very well. I guess it really depends on your abilities, your cars abilities, and the track. Not sure what track you’ll be running, but we basically have the same brakes. When I talked to Mike at Carbotech, I asked about going up to a “hotter” combo(compared to the XP10front/AX6rear), but he said that since I was running street tires, I wouldn’t benefit from the “hotter” pads, even at Road America. Your car is a bit heavier than mine, but also lower on power(by quite a bit). If I were you, give Carbotech a call. I think they have enough experience with different cars to give you a good pad combination.

'89 Notch: 3O4, Novi 2K/12psi, TFS heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, Cobra Intake, Tremec, Spec Stg. 2, C springs, Konis,MM CC plates, Cobra brake conversion w/ Bullitt wheels, and more crap. [email protected] with no tune- New BBK Long tubes, x-pipe and Tweecer RT and 436rwhp/432rwtq.
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post #22 of 34 Old 07-14-2011, 11:49 PM
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You could also call and talk to Ken or Joe at KNSbrakes.com. They carry a variety of different brands of pads (including both Hawk and Carbotech), and are always looking for feedback on the different compounds from their customers so that they can better advise people on what works and what doesn't.

I've used the Hawk DTC70s (front) and 60s (rear) on my CTS-V and have been very happy with them. I killed Carbotech XP16s in a single 2-day event, about 1/2 the life I get out of the Hawk pads.

'89 GT convertible, N/A 357W, MM front susp w/425# coil-overs and Koni D/As, MM TA/PB rear setup (Koni Yellows, 390-430# springs), Stoptech 332mm / 12" Baers, MM 6 point rollbar, Maier 1.5" flared fenders & quarters, 18x9.5" front/18x10.5" rear Enkei RPF-1s (street), 18x10" CCW C-10s (track), etc...
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post #23 of 34 Old 07-15-2011, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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One more question. Are the premium rotors at Napa worth the extra $$? They will be about $100 more for the set(4 rotors) compared to the standard. The premiums do carry a lifetime warranty, which from the sounds of it can be very beneficial due to the likelyhood of cracking rotors. One option would be to get the premium for the front and standard for the rear since I think the rears aren’t as prone to cracking. Your thoughts?

'89 Notch: 3O4, Novi 2K/12psi, TFS heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, Cobra Intake, Tremec, Spec Stg. 2, C springs, Konis,MM CC plates, Cobra brake conversion w/ Bullitt wheels, and more crap. [email protected] with no tune- New BBK Long tubes, x-pipe and Tweecer RT and 436rwhp/432rwtq.
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post #24 of 34 Old 07-15-2011, 06:51 PM
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At one point, the premium NAPA rotors were made in north america, and the others were chinese. I don't think that's true anymore, and the difference may be mostly in the warranty now.
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post #25 of 34 Old 07-16-2011, 08:32 PM
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I just got back from Mid-Ohio which was my first track event in years. I used the Carbotech XP10 in front and XP8 in the rears with street tires. The brakes were absolutely flawless! Never even hinted at ANY fade whatsoever even after slowing from 130 MPH down the back straight. Running full MM setup and 465RWHP.

Like I said, this was my first track event in years and I was not pushing the car or brakes super hard. My best timed run of the day was a 1:48.

I used a set of DBA 4000 series rotors for the rears and they have painted on heat markings. According to the markings the rotor was between 856 degrees and 1022 degrees farenheit. So, it was geting pretty "warm" even on street tires.

Another note is the brakes had fantastic bite even at cold temps.

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post #26 of 34 Old 07-16-2011, 08:40 PM
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Not sure what sort of dollars they are south of the border, but I've had good luck on my Cobra swapped T-Bird SC and Taurus SHO with the Ford OEM replacement front rotors, which are still Brembo Italy sourced.

LT1HAHA, what brakes are you running, the M2300K or a version thereof as well?


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post #27 of 34 Old 07-16-2011, 08:53 PM
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LT1HAHA, what brakes are you running, the M2300K or a version thereof as well?


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I have the 2000 Cobra R Brembo's in front with a 13" 2-piece Coleman rotor setup. In the rears it is the stock Cobra calipers and 11.65" rotors using a DBA 4000 series rotor.

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post #28 of 34 Old 07-16-2011, 11:06 PM
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You could also call and talk to Ken or Joe at KNSbrakes.com. They carry a variety of different brands of pads (including both Hawk and Carbotech), and are always looking for feedback on the different compounds from their customers so that they can better advise people on what works and what doesn't.

I've used the Hawk DTC70s (front) and 60s (rear) on my CTS-V and have been very happy with them. I killed Carbotech XP16s in a single 2-day event, about 1/2 the life I get out of the Hawk pads.

Nice!! I'll have to let Ken know he got a shout out here, he's local to me
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post #29 of 34 Old 07-17-2011, 08:42 AM
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I just got back from Mid-Ohio which was my first track event in years. I used the Carbotech XP10 in front and XP8 in the rears with street tires. The brakes were absolutely flawless! Never even hinted at ANY fade whatsoever even after slowing from 130 MPH down the back straight. Running full MM setup and 465RWHP.
How did the pads treat your rotors, wear-wise?
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post #30 of 34 Old 07-17-2011, 09:15 AM
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The pads are VERY easy on rotors.

91 Road Racing Fox. N/A 383W. Full MM setup front and rear with Bilstein coil-overs. 14x1.25 Wilwood 6 piston fronts with Wilwood 13x1 single piston rears.
486rwhp/ 430rwtq
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post #31 of 34 Old 07-19-2011, 02:41 AM
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Anyone want to by some HP+ front and rear's? Only have about 30 minutes track time?!

Damn it.

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post #32 of 34 Old 07-30-2011, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Well, got everything installed a few weeks ago. I seasoned the rotors last week and just got done bedding the pads in. It seems like the front pads are only bedded on the outer half of the pad. Looks like the inner(as in smaller diameter not piston side) didn't get as hot as there is a noticeable difference in rotor color. I might try to redo the bedding. I did get them smoking a little bit, so I think I got most of the green fade out of them.

One question, what's the best way to get the rear pads beded in like the front? I did check afterwards and I had my proportioning valve adjusted to allow full rear pressure. Makes sense why it felt loose in the rear when hard on the brakes. Can I assume that the green fade is gone out of them also since I had the most rear bias and there was smoke coming from the fronts?

Hitting Road America on Friday. Starting to feel gitty like a school girl just thinking of it.

'89 Notch: 3O4, Novi 2K/12psi, TFS heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, Cobra Intake, Tremec, Spec Stg. 2, C springs, Konis,MM CC plates, Cobra brake conversion w/ Bullitt wheels, and more crap. [email protected] with no tune- New BBK Long tubes, x-pipe and Tweecer RT and 436rwhp/432rwtq.
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post #33 of 34 Old 07-30-2011, 08:20 PM
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I wouldn't worry about the rear pads. Most of your braking is done with the fronts. I raced at RA in my 93R and I ran street pads in the rear. I could have run race type pads in the rear but it wouldn't help me stop faster as the fronts were the limiting factor, mostly tire grip and not the pads. I had to slow 3200-3300lb car from 135 mph to safe speed for corners #1, #5, & #12.

"Drag racing is for those people who don't know how to down shift and brake at the same time. "
DD '12 VW Jetta TDI, Race car '87 ITA 16V Scriocco
Cars owned: '86 Mustang GT, '92 Mustang LX, '93 Mustang Cobra "R" #58
Jim Brozynski is offline  
post #34 of 34 Old 07-30-2011, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a picture of one of the front rotors. The other looks similar. Oh yeah, as you can see, they dust like crazy under daily driving conditions.


'89 Notch: 3O4, Novi 2K/12psi, TFS heads, TFS Stage 1 cam, Cobra Intake, Tremec, Spec Stg. 2, C springs, Konis,MM CC plates, Cobra brake conversion w/ Bullitt wheels, and more crap. [email protected] with no tune- New BBK Long tubes, x-pipe and Tweecer RT and 436rwhp/432rwtq.
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