Turning a Drag Car into an Auto-X Car - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 Old 01-11-2011, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Blue91LX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 725
Thumbs up Turning a Drag Car into an Auto-X Car

What's up Corral,
I am picking up a new car Wednesday that has a plethora of money dumped into the suspension, but it's setup for drag. Personally, drag racing isn't my thing so I want to make this thing handle the best that I can on the street by tweaking the parts that are on it now. Up front it has CC plates, an AJE K-Member, and Coil-overs with a 175# spring. It has NO swaybar on it at this point, so my options are open as to what swaybar I should run. I know I'm going to need a stiffer Spring and have been reading up, and am thinking that I will just grab springs in the high 300# range and get the Eibach Sway bar kit from LMR. Again, I have NO idea how to setup suspension so any input is appreciated. It's got an 8 point cage and subframe connectors. In the rear there's a stock swaybar, drag springs (no coilovers) and non adjustable upper+lowers. For the rear, I want to know what springs to go with. The car has Blistien adj. struts too. Again, any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob

Blue91LX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 01-11-2011, 10:33 AM
Registered User
 
aurdraco's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,614
Don't pay money for a front sway bar, get a stock one from a junk yard or friend.

Do you know if the rear UCAs are stock? If they have stiffer bushings than stock, you'll want to ditch them and put stock ones back in.

aurdraco is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 01-11-2011, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Blue91LX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 725
Good advice on the front sway bar. The upper and lowers are aftermarket. I don't know the brand yet however. The bushings are stiffer he told me. Thanks for the advice!
Blue91LX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old 01-11-2011, 11:48 AM
Registered User
 
EscortSportage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,963
Garage
deff grab a stock front swaybar for now,
look into Maximum Motorsports,

id say ditch the upper control arms go with a torque arm,panhard bar, LCA's
coilovers all the way around

that upr k member might be dangerous to try to autox or roadrace with, seeing that, that is probably a drag racing k member not designed to handle lateral stress (look into it)

instagram.com/escortsportage
Sponsors: MaximumMotorsports,liwrap,Stinger-Performance,Cosmis Racing Wheels
2480LBS
306W
EscortSportage is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 01-12-2011, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Blue91LX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 725
Is it alright to run just a torque arm and 400lb springs without a panhard bar?
Blue91LX is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 01-12-2011, 02:24 PM
Registered User
 
silver408coupe's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 994
You can not run a torque arm without a panhard bar.

You CAN run a panhard bar witout a torque arm.

With the torque arm you do NOT use upper control arms.

There is a ton of info on the Maximum Motorsports website. I suggest reading for a couple of days to get some good info and come up with a game plan. it will come down to how you will use the car. You are pretty much starting from scratch so do it right the first time, take your time and pay for quality parts and just as important, customer service. That being said, I was sold on Maximum the first time I saw one of their parts. After ordering something from them I now go to them first and only buy from someone else if they do not make what I need. They will work with you and are polite even though I can be an idiot sometimes.

93' Hatch - Wife's toy
13' GT - Wife's DD -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

83' Capri- resurrecting an old Street Outlaw
silver408coupe is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 01-12-2011, 05:04 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: At the apex, blocking your pass.
Posts: 2,133
A few thoughts.

The springs have to go -- WAY too soft for decent handling. When installing your springs, do NOT lower the car more than 1" from factory ride height or front grip WILL SUFFER.

Rear springs should complement the fronts, so get a solid recommendation from Maximum Motorsports on the spring rates.

Your dampers (struts and shocks,) will need replacing, probably. Drag racing dampers make for terrible handling. They'll need to match your spring rates. Dampers that are worth having are:
- Tokiko blues
- Koni Reds
- Bilsteins
- Tokiko Illuminas
- Koni Sports
- Koni Sport DA's

The ones you choose will be determined by your springs and your budget.

Stay with factory sway bars for now. These are a tuning aid to tweak the handling later on. No sense in spending real money on 'em right now so get junkyard parts.

IMHO, the AJE K-member is a drag-race part and hasn't proven itself durable enough for Autocross or road racing duty. Unless you like putting your life (and other's) at risk on untried parts, it will eventually need to go.

The car will need to be aligned, bumpsteered and aligned again.

In the rear, you need to replace the upper control arms with:
- factory arms with good (i.e. undamaged) rubber bushings OR
- ONE factory arm and a Panhard bar or Watts Link OR
- a torque arm and a Panhard bar or Watts Link OR
- A 3-link and a Panhard bar or Watts Link.

Simple!

also, chances are your drag racing cage will NOT meet any road racing rules and will need to be replaced, should you choose to compete in a class that requires a cage, or should any tech inspector at an open-track take a disliking to it. (There are things done to a drag racing cage that are IHRA and NHRA-legal but are unsafe on a road course.)

-- Robert King
NASA AI #42, Texas
Instructor, NASA Texas Region
Instructor, TWS Perf. Driving School
gt40mkII is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 01-13-2011, 09:39 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Odessa TX
Posts: 303
Garage
Surprisingly my car which has a torque arm/ panhard bar and all the other handling goodies still pulls a 1.59 60ft on slicks.

2008 Trailblazer SS
1992 LX Hatch-Track toy
2000 SVT Lightning-Suped up daily driver
1988 CRX Si-street/strip beast
Dark_5.0 is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 01-13-2011, 10:35 AM
CSG
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (18)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sulphur, La.
Posts: 1,722
Adjustable Bilsteins?
CSG is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 01-13-2011, 11:00 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: At the apex, blocking your pass.
Posts: 2,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_5.0 View Post
Surprisingly my car which has a torque arm/ panhard bar and all the other handling goodies still pulls a 1.59 60ft on slicks.
Not surprising at all. Torque arms do an excellent job planting the tires on acceleration. (Some folks pay for it with increased brake hop however -- about the only downside to a TA.)


-- Robert King
NASA AI #42, Texas
Instructor, NASA Texas Region
Instructor, TWS Perf. Driving School
gt40mkII is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 01-13-2011, 11:46 AM
Registered User
 
rickyll7's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt40mkII View Post
A few thoughts.

The springs have to go -- WAY too soft for decent handling. When installing your springs, do NOT lower the car more than 1" from factory ride height or front grip WILL SUFFER.

Rear springs should complement the fronts, so get a solid recommendation from Maximum Motorsports on the spring rates.

Your dampers (struts and shocks,) will need replacing, probably. Drag racing dampers make for terrible handling. They'll need to match your spring rates. Dampers that are worth having are:
- Tokiko blues
- Koni Reds
- Bilsteins
- Tokiko Illuminas
- Koni Sports
- Koni Sport DA's

The ones you choose will be determined by your springs and your budget.

Stay with factory sway bars for now. These are a tuning aid to tweak the handling later on. No sense in spending real money on 'em right now so get junkyard parts.

IMHO, the AJE K-member is a drag-race part and hasn't proven itself durable enough for Autocross or road racing duty. Unless you like putting your life (and other's) at risk on untried parts, it will eventually need to go.

The car will need to be aligned, bumpsteered and aligned again.

In the rear, you need to replace the upper control arms with:
- factory arms with good (i.e. undamaged) rubber bushings OR
- ONE factory arm and a Panhard bar or Watts Link OR
- a torque arm and a Panhard bar or Watts Link OR
- A 3-link and a Panhard bar or Watts Link.

Simple!

also, chances are your drag racing cage will NOT meet any road racing rules and will need to be replaced, should you choose to compete in a class that requires a cage, or should any tech inspector at an open-track take a disliking to it. (There are things done to a drag racing cage that are IHRA and NHRA-legal but are unsafe on a road course.)
Any place we can find the rules on cages for road racing? How do the MM roll bar kits stack up?
rickyll7 is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 01-13-2011, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Blue91LX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 725
The Blistiens are adjustable! I know nothing about what specs to adjust them. I wasn't specific enough with what I wanted to do with the car. My goal was to keep as many parts as I could on the car to make it handle corners the best it could. It will mostly be a street car, but I'd like to drift and do Auto X on the side in the summer. This car's a budget build, so I want to do the best with what I have. Thanks for all the responses it's helping alot. Ironically, my last car had the road race MM suspension kit and I want it to handle like that thing did!
Blue91LX is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 01-13-2011, 02:14 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: At the apex, blocking your pass.
Posts: 2,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyll7 View Post
Any place we can find the rules on cages for road racing?
Depends on who you will be racing with and what class you will be racing in.

Sanctioning bodies all have their own rule sets that apply to everyone racing, regardkess of class. These are sometimes referred to as the "GCR" (General Competition Rules) or "CCR" (Club Codes and Regulations).

After that, each series can modify those rules to suit their own needs.

Of course, if you're not racing and just want to do open track or HPDE events, you need to check with the event organizers to see what they require.

In general though, if I wanted a road racing cage, I'd get a copy of the NASA CCR, and study the section on safety cages, seats and seat mounting, and harnesses. Take all that knowledge and the rules to a reputable cage builder, and have him build a custom cage to the NASA CCR specifications.

I am NOT a big fan of bolt-in cages -- I've seen too many fail.

I'm also not a fan of letting a sloppy or inexperienced fabricator building a cage. You are betting your life on the design and build quality of your cage. This is not a place to save money.

Quote:
How do the MM roll bar kits stack up?
Never looked at one close enough.

-- Robert King
NASA AI #42, Texas
Instructor, NASA Texas Region
Instructor, TWS Perf. Driving School
gt40mkII is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 01-15-2011, 05:00 PM
Registered User
 
EscortSportage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,963
Garage
for one, go with bilstein struts/shocks
two, NON ADJUSTABLE

ill explain why: (trust me, i found out the hard way)

1 u want to get the struts/shocks matched for your spring rate
2 Ur not an expert so getting adjustable struts/shocks, is no benefit cuz u wont know what setting to put them on (me either)
3 with bilsteins u can run front and rear coilover kits
4 something about bilsteins being monotube...less heat when racing for long periods of time
5 MaximumMotorsports does all there tests with them


(selling my tokico illuminas,cuz u cant run rear coilovers...and their adjustable)

instagram.com/escortsportage
Sponsors: MaximumMotorsports,liwrap,Stinger-Performance,Cosmis Racing Wheels
2480LBS
306W
EscortSportage is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 01-15-2011, 05:11 PM
Registered User
 
EscortSportage's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,963
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue91LX View Post
Is it alright to run just a torque arm and 400lb springs without a panhard bar?


if u run 400lb springs in rear what do u plan on running up front?

instagram.com/escortsportage
Sponsors: MaximumMotorsports,liwrap,Stinger-Performance,Cosmis Racing Wheels
2480LBS
306W
EscortSportage is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 01-16-2011, 05:02 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: At the apex, blocking your pass.
Posts: 2,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue91LX View Post
Is it alright to run just a torque arm... ...without a panhard bar?
No. You need something to locate the axle laterally. The Panhard bar (or a Watts Link) does that.

-- Robert King
NASA AI #42, Texas
Instructor, NASA Texas Region
Instructor, TWS Perf. Driving School
gt40mkII is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 01-17-2011, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Blue91LX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 725
I just spoke to MM and QA1 on the phone. Both places were a huge help. Basically, I wanted to keep as much stuff as I could that's on the car now. The car will be mostly a street car with a few Auto X events come summer. I decided on 325lb front coilover springs, and 375-400 springs. I'm going to pick up stock upper control arms w/rubber bushings and a panhard bar, and run a stock rear swaybar, and hopefully a 4cyl front sway bar if I can find one. Hopefully this will tighten the car up a bit! Thanks for everyone's help!
Blue91LX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale 98 Cobra TT 25.5 DR car Silverworth Mustangs For Sale/Wanted, 1994-1998 1 02-13-2011 07:25 PM
For Sale HRE WHEELS $2500 firm. Car is also for sale look in car sale forum DaOnlyStangWidHreZ Rims Wheels and Tires 2 01-14-2011 08:24 PM
For Sale Orange395w Drag Car 4 sale Blwn331 Mustangs For Sale/Wanted, 1987-1993 3 12-25-2010 01:40 PM
Help a relative newb build a drag car please (warning: LONG post) LDiablo Drag Racing 3 12-13-2010 06:36 PM
99+ Cobra IRS Limitations for Drag Racing Joe Lynch GT & SOHC 22 01-02-2002 08:21 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome