MM front A-Arms - swaybar relocation ? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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MM front A-Arms - swaybar relocation ?

So I took advantage of one of the final MM deals of the day. Bought the front urethane lca's for $285 in the forward offset variety.

I bought the swaybar relocation kit to move the swaybar back into alignment per MM's advice. They said that I might want to drill a hole in the middle of the kit to move it 3/4" instead of the full 1.5" it is setup for. Is that what everyone else does?

I will be running just the control arms, not the k-member per Street Mod rules.

Thanks,

David


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post #2 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 12:30 PM
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I have the setup you are describing and I did not get the sway bar relocation kit. I thought it was meant for just the 1.5" setup. With that said, my setup is working fine without it.


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post #3 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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You also have the drop spindles which may make up enough difference not to need them..he said that the endlinks would bend on my setup.

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post #4 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 03:11 PM
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I have the forward offset arms, relocation kit, but also the MM k-member. We did not drill the relocation kit. I'm guessing they said that because you just have the new arms and stock k-member???

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post #5 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 03:18 PM
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Maybe, but then that is an issue of endlink length. I did have the shorter endlinks when I upgraded. I also know there are offset bushings for factory control arms that also move them forward. I don't think anybody doing that upgrade had to relocate their swaybar.

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post #6 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 03:55 PM
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I don't know. I did it all at once, K-member, forward offset arms, relocation kit & new end links

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post #7 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 06:16 PM
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I had a buddy make these. I gave 10 bucks or something. i realize my setup is different than yours, but you could probably make something like this specifically for your application.





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post #8 of 20 Old 01-03-2011, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe, but then that is an issue of endlink length. I did have the shorter endlinks when I upgraded. I also know there are offset bushings for factory control arms that also move them forward. I don't think anybody doing that upgrade had to relocate their swaybar.
Where might one find these offset bushings? I think I have the shorter endlinks already...

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post #9 of 20 Old 01-04-2011, 02:10 PM
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If I remember the details correctly, the MM K-member moves the A-Arms forward 0.75". the forward-offset moves them another 0.75". That gives you the 1.5" forward offset of the MM swaybar relocation kit.

As far as whether you NEED the kit of not, I dunno. I'm running 0.75" forward offset (griggs K-member,) and standard geometry arms and haven't relocated my sway bar. Works just fine and no evidence of any problems.

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post #10 of 20 Old 01-04-2011, 05:56 PM
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Where might one find these offset bushings? I think I have the shorter endlinks already...
Steeda sells offset control arm bushings.

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post #11 of 20 Old 01-04-2011, 06:08 PM
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Steeda sells offset control arm bushings.
I had those. I think they moved the arm forward like 3mm's or something very very minuscule. Not impressed.
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post #12 of 20 Old 01-04-2011, 10:15 PM
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The forward offset FCAs are not going to move the swaybar hole forward 3/4".

The inner pivot locations of the FCA are fixed in space. The ball joint pivot location is moved forward in the car 3/4". The hole in the FCA to mount the swaybar endlink is between the balljoint and the front FCA pivot, so it only moves forward a portion of the 3/4" distance.

In the particular case of this FCA, the nominal location of the swaybar hole is a little bit behind the stock location. When you combine this with the fact that the hole was only moved forward a portion of the 3/4", the hole ends up being only about 0.3" farther forward than stock. I wouldn't use a swaybar relocation kit for this combination of parts.

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post #13 of 20 Old 01-05-2011, 05:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
The forward offset FCAs are not going to move the swaybar hole forward 3/4".

The inner pivot locations of the FCA are fixed in space. The ball joint pivot location is moved forward in the car 3/4". The hole in the FCA to mount the swaybar endlink is between the balljoint and the front FCA pivot, so it only moves forward a portion of the 3/4" distance.

In the particular case of this FCA, the nominal location of the swaybar hole is a little bit behind the stock location. When you combine this with the fact that the hole was only moved forward a portion of the 3/4", the hole ends up being only about 0.3" farther forward than stock. I wouldn't use a swaybar relocation kit for this combination of parts.
Thanks for the help Jack (and everyone else for your comments). I'll just send the swaybar relocation kit back...

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post #14 of 20 Old 01-05-2011, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
The forward offset FCAs are not going to move the swaybar hole forward 3/4".

The inner pivot locations of the FCA are fixed in space. The ball joint pivot location is moved forward in the car 3/4". The hole in the FCA to mount the swaybar endlink is between the balljoint and the front FCA pivot, so it only moves forward a portion of the 3/4" distance.

In the particular case of this FCA, the nominal location of the swaybar hole is a little bit behind the stock location. When you combine this with the fact that the hole was only moved forward a portion of the 3/4", the hole ends up being only about 0.3" farther forward than stock. I wouldn't use a swaybar relocation kit for this combination of parts.
Jack,

In our email communication, you said, "Yes, you will need a MMFSB-50 swaybar relocation kit and new universal pivot bushings/brackets for the swaybar." I'm just trying to verify that I have this correct in my mind. My situation is different from the OP because I'm using the MM K-member and non-offset control arms, so the endlink hole in the control arm WILL be moved forward a full 3/4", which makes the relocation of the swaybar necessary. Do I have that right?
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post #15 of 20 Old 01-05-2011, 01:13 PM
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Stu,

Yes. Correct.

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post #16 of 20 Old 01-05-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
Stu,

Yes. Correct.
Thanks! Griggs PHB removal is in progress. Front Control arms and assorted small parts are due to arrive tomorrow. My plan (subject to change) is to install everything but the torque arm while the car is leveled on the jack stands, then drive it a bit with the Griggs torque arm still in place so I can get the ride height set and the suspension settled, and then remove the Griggs T/A and replace it with the MM part.

BTW, did the powdercoat MM uses change in the last year or so? I bought my PHB from a friend who lost interest in his project and never installed it. It is a glossier black than the K-member, T/A and RLCAs. The order date for his PHB was 08-2009 I think.
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post #17 of 20 Old 01-05-2011, 03:28 PM
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Stu,

We changed the finish of the powder coating about 1 month ago. The new powder coating has better adhesion to the steel parts and protects them from rust better.

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post #18 of 20 Old 01-05-2011, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stu11926 View Post
Jack,

In our email communication, you said, "Yes, you will need a MMFSB-50 swaybar relocation kit and new universal pivot bushings/brackets for the swaybar." I'm just trying to verify that I have this correct in my mind. My situation is different from the OP because I'm using the MM K-member and non-offset control arms, so the endlink hole in the control arm WILL be moved forward a full 3/4", which makes the relocation of the swaybar necessary. Do I have that right?
So the swaybar relocation kit is necessary with the MM k-member and non-offset arms?

Going by the k-member instructions, it says:

"Proper installation of the MM K-member will require the
use of the following parts:
• Tubular front control arms.
• Caster/Camber plates.
• Front Coil-Over conversion kit.
• MMST-6 Spherical Rack Bushings.
• MMST-8 Rack Spacers (Manual Racks ONLY).
• Adjustable Tie-Rod ends.
• MM Relocation Kit for the front Swaybar, when
using the MM forward-offset control arms."

I took the last line there to mean you didn't need the swaybar relocation kit if not using the foward offset arms.
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post #19 of 20 Old 01-05-2011, 07:14 PM
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MJ,

This is a very complicated situation. The different year chassis, 1979-93, 1994-95, 1996-98, 1999-2004 all have different swaybar designs, different mounting locations on the chassis, different k-members, etc. When you combine these variables with the different MM k-members and FCAs, the variations in the swaybar endlink location compared to the hole in the FCA becomes huge.

Here is just one example. On a 1992 Mustang with the HD suspension, the front 1.31" swaybar has an arm length of 7.20". This puts the end of the arm about 1/2" forward of the hole in the FCA. This is the factory alignment of the endlink and is one of the reasons that they break so frequently. When you install an MM k-member, the hole in the FCA gets moved forward 3/4", putting the hole in the swaybar now 1/4" behind the hole in the FCA.

If this car has a factory 1.125" swaybar instead, things are different. This swaybar has an arm length of 7.56". This puts it only 0.14" in front of the hole in the FCA. When you install an MM k-member with this swaybar, the hole in the FCA ends up 0.61" farther forward than the swaybar hole.

There are a zillion combinations of parts that result in different fore/aft relationships between the two holes. We publish recommendations that give the closest match that we can without making the situation incredibly complex. Frequently these recommendations only apply to the particular part where the text is printed. However, a large number of people misinterpret this and thing it applies to all k-members, or all c/c plates, etc. Like any modification on a car, install the parts, stop. Look at the relationship between the different parts. Ideally the swaybar endlinks should be as vertical as possible. At that point you can measure the offsets and then see what can be done to improve things if necessary.

The MMFSB-51 (SN95) kit moves the swaybar forward 1"

The MMFSB-50 (Fox) kit moves the swaybar forward either 0.6" or 1.1".

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post #20 of 20 Old 01-07-2011, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
MJ,

This is a very complicated situation. The different year chassis, 1979-93, 1994-95, 1996-98, 1999-2004 all have different swaybar designs, different mounting locations on the chassis, different k-members, etc. When you combine these variables with the different MM k-members and FCAs, the variations in the swaybar endlink location compared to the hole in the FCA becomes huge.

Here is just one example. On a 1992 Mustang with the HD suspension, the front 1.31" swaybar has an arm length of 7.20". This puts the end of the arm about 1/2" forward of the hole in the FCA. This is the factory alignment of the endlink and is one of the reasons that they break so frequently. When you install an MM k-member, the hole in the FCA gets moved forward 3/4", putting the hole in the swaybar now 1/4" behind the hole in the FCA.

If this car has a factory 1.125" swaybar instead, things are different. This swaybar has an arm length of 7.56". This puts it only 0.14" in front of the hole in the FCA. When you install an MM k-member with this swaybar, the hole in the FCA ends up 0.61" farther forward than the swaybar hole.

There are a zillion combinations of parts that result in different fore/aft relationships between the two holes. We publish recommendations that give the closest match that we can without making the situation incredibly complex. Frequently these recommendations only apply to the particular part where the text is printed. However, a large number of people misinterpret this and thing it applies to all k-members, or all c/c plates, etc. Like any modification on a car, install the parts, stop. Look at the relationship between the different parts. Ideally the swaybar endlinks should be as vertical as possible. At that point you can measure the offsets and then see what can be done to improve things if necessary.

The MMFSB-51 (SN95) kit moves the swaybar forward 1"

The MMFSB-50 (Fox) kit moves the swaybar forward either 0.6" or 1.1".
Just wondering. The quote was directly out of the instructions from my MM k-member (my car is a '91). I did not use the swaybar relo kit and did use the endlinks recommended but they seemed a bit long, perhaps because the holes didn't line up. I just bolted them up and planned to get back to it later and modify things if necessary. Reading this thread brought the question back up. I'll have to climb back under the car when it warms up a bit and recheck the orientation.

Last edited by MJ91GT; 01-07-2011 at 12:34 AM.
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