Questions about this Spring/TA/PHB/SB combo? Opinions Please? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Questions about this Spring/TA/PHB/SB combo? Opinions Please?

Hi All & thanks for the help!

After doing some reading here I decided that a PHB/TA was the way to go. I am on a budget and have pieced together a MM T/A (MMTA-1) & a Kenne Brown PHB. After reading the install instructions I had a plate made to bolt to the spare tire well instead of using the fender washer setup for the phb. I have a stock 98 GT sway bars, FRPP "C" springs, BBK UCA/LCA's (I can leave the uppers out after this right?), and 3.73's on a 98 vert. This is my daily driver and *might* see some track time eventually. I don't plan on going much past 400hp/400tq. I'm at 300/300 2v now with a 100shot kit in the garage.

Here are the questions:
Will I need to change out the rear springs?
The rears are 200/300. does 200/300 mean progressive rate? seems like from what I've been reading, that I'll need 350+ ? or would it make more sense to go coil over? If coil over is there a good entry level kit?

rear shocks:
Is there a decent budget damper that can be used or do I need Koni/bilstien adjustables?

Quad shocks:
Will I still need them? I've read conflicting things on this.

Any other suggestions/pointers/tips would be GREATLY appreciated All! Is there any info that I've not put in here that would be relevant?


98 Vert: C Heads, Teksid, Coyote crank=4.75L, Manley rods, Custom DSS Pistons (11:1), 98 Intake cams, 01 Cobra intake+1/2" spacer, On3 FF+MP 70mm .63 AR, Snow Stage 2, J&S Vampire, Bilstein C/O fronts, UPR K W/MM Arms, 04 Cobra Rack, 98 T45+Tri-ax, 04 IRS+MM+FTBR, 3.55 Yukon, 2000 R Brembos+factory rears, Goodridge lines, 18x9.5 '09 GT500s, 6pt MM Bar. Thanks: My Mustang Gal, my Boys, NASVT, The Car Guy/Chandler Automotive Machine Services in Chandler AZ and my Buds
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post #2 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 06:36 AM
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After doing some reading here...
This should've answered all your questions you had.

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post #3 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 07:47 AM
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Perhaps you need to do some more reading.

Free point: budget dampers will not do.
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post #4 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 09:04 AM
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Are you sure that the KB PHB is strong enough for that application?
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post #5 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 09:20 AM
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You don't need quad shocks with a torque arm. The torque arm eliminates all the axle housing rotation that the quads are there to damp.

I personally wouldn't use that PHB, plate or no plate.

You might want to do some reading here http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm
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post #6 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 11:22 AM
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STOP! Do not use the Kenne Brown POS!!! I don't care how much you reinforce it or how much of a budget build this is, that thing is a POS. Go get a real PHB from Griggs or MM before doing any of this.

Now, on to setup questions:
Yes, once the PHB/TA is on the car, the upper rear control arms should be removed. The sway bar should be fine, although you may want to get a hold of different size sway bars front and rear for tuning purposes later.

Also, the rear springs need to be higher, around 350+ at a minimum (and many will recommend 400+ minimum depending on vehicle weight. With a vert, ####, I might recommend 500+ in the rear). The "C" springs aren't going to cut it. You need springs designed to work with torque arms like the H&R torque arm springs. These are designed to stay in the spring perch when the suspension is drooped (the suspension droops more once the UCAs are gone). Contact Maximum Motorsports or Griggs about spring options. At that time, you can talk to them about coil over kit options.

Re: shocks, you will need good ones because they will have to deal with a higher spring rate. Again, talk to Griggs and MM and see what they suggest.

Quad shocks go in trash.

Also, if you can get to a track where people race CMC, AIX, A-Sedan, etc., go find some mustang guys and talk to them about their setups. They can probably recommend where to get springs and shocks from, as well as what brands to use. Heck, they probably have some old stuff for sale cheap that will work just fine for your street car.
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post #7 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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STOP! Do not use the Kenne Brown POS!!! I don't care how much you reinforce it or how much of a budget build this is, that thing is a POS. Go get a real PHB from Griggs or MM before doing any of this.

Now, on to setup questions:
Yes, once the PHB/TA is on the car, the upper rear control arms should be removed. The sway bar should be fine, although you may want to get a hold of different size sway bars front and rear for tuning purposes later.

Also, the rear springs need to be higher, around 350+ at a minimum (and many will recommend 400+ minimum depending on vehicle weight. With a vert, ####, I might recommend 500+ in the rear). The "C" springs aren't going to cut it. You need springs designed to work with torque arms like the H&R torque arm springs. These are designed to stay in the spring perch when the suspension is drooped (the suspension droops more once the UCAs are gone). Contact Maximum Motorsports or Griggs about spring options. At that time, you can talk to them about coil over kit options.

Re: shocks, you will need good ones because they will have to deal with a higher spring rate. Again, talk to Griggs and MM and see what they suggest.

Quad shocks go in trash.

Also, if you can get to a track where people race CMC, AIX, A-Sedan, etc., go find some mustang guys and talk to them about their setups. They can probably recommend where to get springs and shocks from, as well as what brands to use. Heck, they probably have some old stuff for sale cheap that will work just fine for your street car.

Thanks for all the advice folks!

I did do my homework here, but as a cornering noob I didn't want to have to do things twice hence the dumb questions. Measure twice..... I'm happy to be the dumbest guy in the room...means I get to learn a lot.

98 Vert: C Heads, Teksid, Coyote crank=4.75L, Manley rods, Custom DSS Pistons (11:1), 98 Intake cams, 01 Cobra intake+1/2" spacer, On3 FF+MP 70mm .63 AR, Snow Stage 2, J&S Vampire, Bilstein C/O fronts, UPR K W/MM Arms, 04 Cobra Rack, 98 T45+Tri-ax, 04 IRS+MM+FTBR, 3.55 Yukon, 2000 R Brembos+factory rears, Goodridge lines, 18x9.5 '09 GT500s, 6pt MM Bar. Thanks: My Mustang Gal, my Boys, NASVT, The Car Guy/Chandler Automotive Machine Services in Chandler AZ and my Buds
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post #8 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 07:05 PM
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im right there with you . i ask too many questions too but i see that as being better than not enough, so you dont end up using something bad.

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
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post #9 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 11:28 PM
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im right there with you . i ask too many questions too but i see that as being better than not enough, so you dont end up using something bad.
Absolutely. Which is why, based on your .sig, I will tell you not to bother buying a strut tower brace. Unless you have coil-overs (and even then it's debatable), a strut tower brace does almost nothing to help spread any suspension loads. Save your money for sub-frame connectors if you don't already have them. There's a great thread over on corner-carvers right now about the subject of strut tower braces and whether or not they actually do anything other than get in the way when you want to work on your motor.
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post #10 of 12 Old 09-25-2009, 11:29 PM
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Thanks for all the advice folks!

I did do my homework here, but as a cornering noob I didn't want to have to do things twice hence the dumb questions. Measure twice..... I'm happy to be the dumbest guy in the room...means I get to learn a lot.
You did the right thing. Definitely better to have asked here then to have had that PHB rip out of its mount while you were taking a corner at 100+!

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post #11 of 12 Old 09-26-2009, 12:24 AM
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I used Eibach Pro Kit springs in the rear for many years with my Griggs Racing TorqueArm/panhard bar. The rear felt soft but it had lots of grip in the turns. I went to 350lb springs when I did the Griggs stuff up front. I used Koni Reds with the Pro Kit springs. I use Koni Yellows now. Even with the the Pro Kit springs and Koni Reds the TA/PH comb made a huge difference.
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post #12 of 12 Old 09-29-2009, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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I used Eibach Pro Kit springs in the rear for many years with my Griggs Racing TorqueArm/panhard bar. The rear felt soft but it had lots of grip in the turns. I went to 350lb springs when I did the Griggs stuff up front. I used Koni Reds with the Pro Kit springs. I use Koni Yellows now. Even with the the Pro Kit springs and Koni Reds the TA/PH comb made a huge difference.
Thanks for the great advice and sharing your real world experience! I have ordered a MM PHB and once I sell off my old engine, stock h pipe and Kenne brown phb I'll get a set of good dampers and higher rate rear springs as you've all advised, maybe a rear coil over setup if I can afford it.

Thanks again all!!

98 Vert: C Heads, Teksid, Coyote crank=4.75L, Manley rods, Custom DSS Pistons (11:1), 98 Intake cams, 01 Cobra intake+1/2" spacer, On3 FF+MP 70mm .63 AR, Snow Stage 2, J&S Vampire, Bilstein C/O fronts, UPR K W/MM Arms, 04 Cobra Rack, 98 T45+Tri-ax, 04 IRS+MM+FTBR, 3.55 Yukon, 2000 R Brembos+factory rears, Goodridge lines, 18x9.5 '09 GT500s, 6pt MM Bar. Thanks: My Mustang Gal, my Boys, NASVT, The Car Guy/Chandler Automotive Machine Services in Chandler AZ and my Buds
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