Steeda's New K-member - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 26 Old 09-24-2009, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Steeda's New K-member

Got a call from Steeda today and they said their new K-Member for 96-04 is ready for sale, I was inerested in them doing a 87-93 piece and they said all they have to do is change the motor mount points. and they will be doing that in the next several weeks. I then ask if they were going to make their own A-Arms and they told me that the stock arms are the strongest thing available and that they have seen after market ones fold or bend due to hard cornering. They also said that running coil-overs on a Fox is a bad idea as well b/c the strut towers aren't designed for that. I'd like to hear what you guys think of that.

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post #2 of 26 Old 09-24-2009, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by greengt88 View Post
Got a call from Steeda today and they said their new K-Member for 96-04 is ready for sale, I was inerested in them doing a 87-93 piece and they said all they have to do is change the motor mount points. and they will be doing that in the next several weeks. I then ask if they were going to make their own A-Arms and they told me that the stock arms are the strongest thing available and that they have seen after market ones fold or bend due to hard cornering. They also said that running coil-overs on a Fox is a bad idea as well b/c the strut towers aren't designed for that. I'd like to hear what you guys think of that.
That is funny....this is the same Steeda who also said that the stock K-member was fine and you don't have to change it. I guess they changed their mind.

I have had a Griggs K-member, coil overs and tubular arms for 8 years with no issues. I have had Griggs SLA for about 8 months.

My suggestion would be to look long and hard at Griggs or MM before giving them a dime

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post #3 of 26 Old 09-24-2009, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah i've been really wanting the MM stuff, could i still use the steeda bumpsteer, C/C plates and X2 balljoints with the MM Kmember and a-arms?
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post #4 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by greengt88 View Post
Yeah i've been really wanting the MM stuff, could i still use the steeda bumpsteer, C/C plates and X2 balljoints with the MM Kmember and a-arms?
Don't see why not
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post #5 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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what about their billet swaybar bushing mounts? I know MM's kit reloctes the front swaybar.
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post #6 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 07:53 AM
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I then ask if they were going to make their own A-Arms and they told me that the stock arms are the strongest thing available and that they have seen after market ones fold or bend due to hard cornering. They also said that running coil-overs on a Fox is a bad idea as well b/c the strut towers aren't designed for that. I'd like to hear what you guys think of that.
Then why does Steeda now sell coil-over kits for the Fox-Body?

http://www.steeda.com/products/bille...l_over_kit.php

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post #7 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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I don't know either, that C/O kit is for drag racing not RR /AX. It just doesn't add up. MM all the way for me from here on out.
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post #8 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by greengt88 View Post
I don't know either, that C/O kit is for drag racing not RR /AX. It just doesn't add up. MM all the way for me from here on out.
The fact is that dynamic loads from the struts are ORDERS of magnitude higher than those imposed by the coilovers. running coilovers won't hurt a damn thing. Steeda must have a big stick up their ass to say something like that.

And they're statement about the A-arms is BS too. I've been in and around road racing Mustangs running Griggs arms (the weakest of the lot,) for 15 years or more. I've seen TWO fail -- TWO.

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post #9 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 10:35 AM
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Why do any of you sound surprised about this. Steeda has been saying these things for well over a decade. They always used the stock K-member and A-arms in all their road race cars. Why would they say anything different now?

Check our post 3 on the link below, its a Steeda guy explaining why they chose to do a K-member. He even confirms what I said that they recommended the stock K-member for years.

http://forums.themustangsource.com/s...d.php?t=477017

Quote:
Then why does Steeda now sell coil-over kits for the Fox-Body?
For Drag Racing

White 93 lx hatch, Xenon ground effets, Steeda wing, Cobra R style hood, tubular K-member,tubular A-arms, coil overs, Tremec TKO with Steeda Tri-ax, loud ass fuel system, 408ci stroker.

96 Triple black Cobra Conv. Full Steeda Suspension, mild brake upgrade, 80mm Pro-M with bigmouth filter, power pipe, Bassani X with cats, flowmaster catback, 3.73 gears, aluminum driveshaft, Steeda Tri-ax, Steeda pullies.
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post #10 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gt40mkII View Post
The fact is that dynamic loads from the struts are ORDERAS of magnitude higher than those imposed by the coilovers. running coilovers won't hurt a damn thing. Steeda must have a big stick up their ass to say something like that.
I find this hard to believe. If this were true, how does the factory strut mount hold the factory strut in place just fine, but if you use a coil over with the factory upper strut mount it will break it.

On 94+ cars too MM was first to release 4 bolt camber plates cause 3 bolt plates would bend under the increased loads you claim dont exist. I dont buy this at all..


White 93 lx hatch, Xenon ground effets, Steeda wing, Cobra R style hood, tubular K-member,tubular A-arms, coil overs, Tremec TKO with Steeda Tri-ax, loud ass fuel system, 408ci stroker.

96 Triple black Cobra Conv. Full Steeda Suspension, mild brake upgrade, 80mm Pro-M with bigmouth filter, power pipe, Bassani X with cats, flowmaster catback, 3.73 gears, aluminum driveshaft, Steeda Tri-ax, Steeda pullies.
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post #11 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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i just wanna know who to believe, so i can purchase a good front suspension. and not worry about all the geometry being correct and things bending or falling off.
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post #12 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Stangpilot View Post
I find this hard to believe. If this were true, how does the factory strut mount hold the factory strut in place just fine, but if you use a coil over with the factory upper strut mount it will break it.
Have you ever SEEN a factory upper strut mount broken by a coilover setup?

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On 94+ cars too MM was first to release 4 bolt camber plates cause 3 bolt plates would bend under the increased loads you claim dont exist.
I never said they don't exist. I said that the loads imposed by the springs are less than the dynamic loads imposed by the dampers.

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post #13 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by greengt88 View Post
i just wanna know who to believe, so i can purchase a good front suspension. and not worry about all the geometry being correct and things bending or falling off.
Then just write a check to Griggs or Maximum Motorsports and stop worrying.

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post #14 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gt40mkII View Post
Then just write a check to Griggs or Maximum Motorsports and stop worrying.
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post #15 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gt40mkII View Post
Have you ever SEEN a factory upper strut mount broken by a coilover setup?
Yes I have, I had a friend years ago stupid enough to try it....

White 93 lx hatch, Xenon ground effets, Steeda wing, Cobra R style hood, tubular K-member,tubular A-arms, coil overs, Tremec TKO with Steeda Tri-ax, loud ass fuel system, 408ci stroker.

96 Triple black Cobra Conv. Full Steeda Suspension, mild brake upgrade, 80mm Pro-M with bigmouth filter, power pipe, Bassani X with cats, flowmaster catback, 3.73 gears, aluminum driveshaft, Steeda Tri-ax, Steeda pullies.
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post #16 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 03:50 PM
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Q. Why doesn't my Fox chassis Mustang require 4-bolt Caster/Camber plates?
A. The 1979-93 Mustang Caster/Camber Plates only require three bolts because the strut top is captured inside a triangle formed by these three bolts (as viewed from the top). This means each bolt carries a portion of the vertical strut load and the plate is in fixed bending (loaded in the middle, supported on each end - like a bridge).
On 1994+ Mustang Caster/Camber plates, the strut top is outside of the triangle formed by the three factory mounting bolts. This means that two bolts carry the entire vertical strut load, and the plate is in cantilevered bending. The plate, and the Mustang's strut tower, are much more likely to bend. Adding a 4th mounting bolt on the main plate now captures the strut top inside the square formed by the four mounting bolts. Now the vertical strut load is shared between all four bolts, so the Caster/Camber plate and your Mustang's strut tower will never bend.
You guys.
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/in...q_ccplates.php

I was typing my own answer and then remembered MM has a bunch of FAQs and Tech Tips.
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post #17 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by greengt88 View Post
Yeah i've been really wanting the MM stuff, could i still use the steeda bumpsteer, C/C plates and X2 balljoints with the MM Kmember and a-arms?
Bumpsteer, i dont see why not. C/C plates yes. but X2's, I wouldn't use. MM designed their K member and controll arms to have correct geometry with OEM ball joints.

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post #18 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 08:08 PM
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MFE seems to have good success with the X2/MM kit.
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post #19 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 08:23 PM
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MFE seems to have good success with the X2/MM kit.
I ran the X2's with stock A-arms, but not since I installed the MM A-arms and K-member.
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post #20 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 08:40 PM
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I ran the X2's with stock A-arms, but not since I installed the MM A-arms and K-member.
Sorry, I thought you transferred them over with the front end swap. Maybe it was Darius that's running them.

EDIT: some search tid-bits... http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums...eda+balljoints

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post #21 of 26 Old 09-26-2009, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gt40mkII View Post
The fact is that dynamic loads from the struts are ORDERS of magnitude higher than those imposed by the coilovers. running coilovers won't hurt a damn thing. Steeda must have a big stick up their ass to say something like that.
Ok, had to go to my fathers house to find one of his books, unfortunately I didnt find it so this is more from memory....

My father has a book at home that has a graph Mercedes Benz produced showing all of the components that make up wheel rate. If I recall correctly they actually measured loads with a data acquisition system and load cells. The contribution from springs, swaybars, friction, dampers, etc during left/right transistions.

With high damping there were some large spikes in load, but not an order of magnitude higher like you claim.

Damping force is dependent on shaft velocity. An "order of magnitute" is 10 times the original amount (two orders 100 times, etc). During the course of bump a 400lb coil over spring exerts a force of at least 1,600lbs on the strut towers. Depending on the design on the spring, a coil over spring that is compressed to 6 inches less than whatever the free length is could exert a force as high as 2,400lbs. Using your "order of magnitude" statement that would mean the damper is exerting a force of 16,000 to 24,000lbs. That is not anywhere near correct.

Using the same 400lb spring rate, if bump compresses the suspension at 3 inches in about 1 second (like a speed bump at low speed might) the increase in spring load would be around 1200lbs. The force of a damper would be around only 100lbs at 3 inches per second assuming very high damping. 100lb at 3 inches would be considered very stiff.

Hitting a 1" tall bump at high velocities, making compression maybe 1 tenth of a second assuming the same stiff damping would move the damper force into the 350 to 400lb range. Still nowhere near what the spring does.

A friend of mine runs Koni's on his GTO, I've attached a graph of his Koni adjustable shock he uses. The green line is stock, the rest are different settings through adjustment. Lower left is compression, upper right is rebound. The stiffest setting is "rattle your teeth out" stiff. At the highest shaft velocities damping forces are barely 100lbs in compression and 425 in rebound.





The shock will never exert an order of magnitude more load than the springs.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend guys!
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post #22 of 26 Old 09-26-2009, 10:52 PM
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OK. so tell me what happens when you hit a pothole at 70 and the damper velocities are a LOT higher than 12"/sec?

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post #23 of 26 Old 09-27-2009, 09:17 AM
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just use mm. even griggs. if steeda is saying shady stuff then just dont worry about them. plus mm has the easiest to use cc plates. and you can just get parts store balljoints and they'll work fine.

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post #24 of 26 Old 09-28-2009, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gt40mkII View Post
OK. so tell me what happens when you hit a pothole at 70 and the damper velocities are a LOT higher than 12"/sec?
.

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Originally Posted by Stangpilot
Hitting a 1" tall bump at high velocities, making compression maybe 1 tenth of a second assuming the same stiff damping would move the damper force into the 350 to 400lb range. Still nowhere near what the spring does.
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post #25 of 26 Old 09-28-2009, 10:44 PM
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Do whatever you believe but there many foxes running coilovers on the street and the roadcourse with no problems. If it wasn't safe nobody would sell them with the risk of a lawsuit.
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post #26 of 26 Old 09-28-2009, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Stangpilot View Post
.
Ford's durability test is 6" at 70 an I can guarantee you it's faster than 1/10th of a second.

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