How Well Does Your Fox Ride On The Street? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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How Well Does Your Fox Ride On The Street?

I posted this thread here because the road race guys seem to use higher quality parts vs your average mustang guy and they don't put parts on them that make them fairly dangerous to drive on the streets...lol.

Anyways, I've always built my cars to be "all around" cars instead of just straight line. Here is my current setup:

Bilsteins front/rear
#300 coilovers up front
J&M lower control arms with the spherical bushing on the axle side
Stock uppers
MM Full Length SFC
MM Caster/Camber plates
Factory replacement diff bushings
GT springs in the rear

Let me first say, the car rides awful. Is there anyway to get this thing to ride/drive like a newer mustang? I understand the car is old and all that but I would think that newer suspension stuff would help with how it rode/drove. I took my dad for a ride in the car last night and we hit a bump in the road(where the road meets a bridge) and he looks at me goes, I thought you put new struts/shocks on this thing? I don't know why this car rides so awful for, it's a 76k mile fox but man it feels like it has about 500k on it even with all the new parts listed above.

What all needs to be replaced to help with the whole "feel" of the car? This is coming this winter:

MM K member
MM A-Arms(not sure if I want to go offset or not, this is a car that spends 98% of its life on the street and the only form of racing it does is drag racing but I want better street manners than something drag specific)
Poly Motor mounts
Poly Trans mount
SN95 balljoints
I guess a bumpsteer kit if needed

What else can I do to make it ride/drive worth a damn? I'm trying to build a decent 11 second "driver" but I don't know if it's going to be possible or not after riding in this thing all summer with the parts above on it. Lol Thanks in advance.


-Dave
1992 Mustang GT
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post #2 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 09:02 AM
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Some sort of 3 link rear end would greatly aid in ride and performance. I personally think my car rides better than it ever has(sans low profile/stiff sidewall tires). 400 front springs, 300 rears with Bilsteins. I cannot adjust my Bilstein's, so I ultimately fail at life, though.

I ran my car on some stock sized/random junkyard wheels tires and was amazed how well it was to daily drive.

The 300 c/o rate in front is a decent street/everything spring, but I honestly believe the problem is in the old quadra-bind rear end. A 5 link, or preferably MM's T/A setup would make you smile(since you've seem to commit to that company already).

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post #3 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 09:05 AM
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Your factory balljoints and A-arm bushings probably aren't doing you any favors. Do you have subframe connectors?
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post #4 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
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Do you have subframe connectors?

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Originally Posted by Meangrn92GT View Post
Here is my current setup:

Bilsteins front/rear
#300 coilovers up front
J&M lower control arms with the spherical bushing on the axle side
Stock uppers
MM Full Length SFC
MM Caster/Camber plates
Factory replacement diff bushings
GT springs in the rear
Word.
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post #5 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Some sort of 3 link rear end would greatly aid in ride and performance. I personally think my car rides better than it ever has(sans low profile/stiff sidewall tires). 400 front springs, 300 rears with Bilsteins. I cannot adjust my Bilstein's, so I ultimately fail at life, though.

I ran my car on some stock sized/random junkyard wheels tires and was amazed how well it was to daily drive.

The 300 c/o rate in front is a decent street/everything spring, but I honestly believe the problem is in the old quadra-bind rear end. A 5 link, or preferably MM's T/A setup would make you smile(since you've seem to commit to that company already).
The thought of a T/A setup is the reason I still have factory uppers still since I didn't want to spend the money on the uppers and then have to remove them.

I think my car is just a piece of junk really, lol. It's horrible to drive, but I guess I'll hold out on my judging until I get a few more suspension pieces. It's just going to be hard to believe that it'll really come around with a few bushing changes. I've rode in stock foxes with worn out suspension parts that rode/drove better than mine, not sure what the deal is.

-Dave
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post #6 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 09:36 AM
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When you say "ride better", are you talking about when it's going down a semi smooth road(interstate) or when it's on some questionable pavement with bumps? Could it be a wheel out of balance? Tire pressure? Driveshaft out of balance? (Just thinking of some simple/cheap things). Hell, could it be your SEATS?!?!?!

As long as you're comparing Mustangs to Mustangs and not Mustangs to Lincoln Town Cars....I think there should be a fix for yours.

The PHB/TA setup isn't cheap...and it took me a LOONG time to justify/afford one but it certainly does change the whole aspect of the car. If you get a chance to ride in one, I'd try that before taking the plunge.
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post #7 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 12:00 PM
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what kinda tires are you running and at what pressure? some of the sti's came with hard sidewalled tires that ride like hell.

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post #8 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meangrn92GT View Post
...What else can I do to make it ride/drive worth a damn? ...
To properly address this question, stating what you dislike about it and what you are trying to achieve would certainly help.

Tailwaggin', pushin', handles like a boat, what is it doing now?

My recent MM PHB addition along w/ poly swaybar bushings made a great difference eliminating massive 'boat' handling where the rear was wallowing around like crazy from my MM LRCA install. I had way too much articulation compared to my 'full of bind' Southside LRCA's. They did quite well for as cheap as they were 15+ years ago when I installed them.

More details please.

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post #9 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 12:16 PM
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I agree re: the PHB/TA combo improving ride quality. That actually surprised me quite a bit when I installed mine (finally!) earlier this month. Plus, doing anything else to a fox body is a waste of time until you have removed the rear UCAs. I would recommend that people do the PHB/TA combo before doing springs/shocks, etc. Springs/shocks/bushings will make you think that your car handles when it doesn't, but a PHB/TA will actually solve most of a fox body's problems by eliminating the rear UCAs.

Now, I have what I consider to be a harsh riding street car, so my opinion on what is livable and what is not is probably different from most peoples'.

'92 notchback
no AC, no heater, no sound deadening (scraped out the tar, too)
battery relocated to passenger backseat buttwell
1000 lb/in. front springs
koni yellow struts (one blown, needs re-valving)
home-made camber/caster plates (based on Mathis' design, iirc)
~-2 camber and +3 caster
26mm front sway bar
98 spindles
98 cobra PBR brakes
aluminum driveshaft
Grigg's adjustable PHB
Global West trak-link torque arm
full-length subframe connectors and rear torque box braces
H&R 350-390 rear springs
koni red shocks (set to full stiff right now to keep up with the springs, but may be set too stiff, not sure)
98 cobra hollow 27mm rear sway bar (effectively a 26mm sway bar)
98 cobra rear brakes
all stock bushings
cheap ass made-in-China seats
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post #10 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 12:28 PM
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Don't forget tires, my suspension is similair to yours. I just changed from Sumitomo HTRZ to Toyo something or other and the Toyos are a butt noticable improvement in ride. Near silent on smooth pavement and the bumps just absorbed better.

That said the "nicest" street fox suspension I ever had was bone stock 1993 Cobra.

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post #11 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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It's hard to explain really, the car just feels way past it's age in terms of how it rides/drives/turns/etc.

The steering wheel has a weird wobble to it, shifter has some vibration in it. Could probably drive over a quarter and tell you what year is on it, etc. It doesn't have many interior rattles or squeaks but the overall "feel" of the car just feels real sloppy and old. My seats are stockers and I know they aren't the greatest in the world but I've grown to like them. Had some newer mustang seats in it and I took them out and put the stockers back in.

I think this winter I'll have the balance on the DS checked(it's brand new aluminum unit from Ford but I changed yokes on it and the one I put on it was half a pound lighter)
The front tires are some cheap ones I bought and the rears are 555R DR's. They are probably out of balance because all the places in this town are pretty low rent and still are scared to mount 17" and bigger wheels for cars because of the old equipment they have. Tire pressure is 30 or 32psi all the way around.

What if I went ahead and bought new front control arms to use with the factory K member till winter, would I see a pretty good change from the newer a-arm bushings and the new ball joints? I'm getting SN95 ones so I don't have to use that .330 spacer.

-Dave
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post #12 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 01:27 PM
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I would examine them before buying/replacing them. Especially if I was going to go back with stock ones.
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post #13 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
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Some sort of 3 link rear end would greatly aid in ride and performance. I personally think my car rides better than it ever has(sans low profile/stiff sidewall tires). 400 front springs, 300 rears with Bilsteins. I cannot adjust my Bilstein's, so I ultimately fail at life, though.
SWEET! I'm a failure as well. I just ordered Bilstein Sports and 400F / 300R springs.

I think my car rides great. Bilstein HDs, MM coilovers with 350# front and 225# rear. It's very soft and forgiving. It's similar to the BMW I drive daily...just a lot more rattles

1993 GT 310rwhp / 351rwtq
AFR FTI EDEL Combo. MM, T-56 3.73, Brembo, 275s on 03 Cobras all around
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post #14 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 02:17 PM
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Last edited by 2k2GT; 09-23-2009 at 02:18 PM. Reason: nevermind, I can't read correctly. I fail at life once again.
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post #15 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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I would examine them before buying/replacing them. Especially if I was going to go back with stock ones.
Stock ones!!! Blah! If I'm spending money I'm getting an upgrade of some sort.


I want to go with a MM K member/A-arm setup but not sure if I should go with offset arms or not. I'm thinking heavily about switching down to a 8" wheel too so I can take out one set of rack limiters to get some turning radius back.

Ugh, I hate these cars and their money requirements.

-Dave
1992 Mustang GT
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post #16 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 04:01 PM
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Keep in mind if while the MM front kit will increase performance, you may experience MORE NVH from the kit. While tolerable to most, it seems you have rather sensitive feelings.
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post #17 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 04:58 PM
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Are you displeased with the ride quality? or the handling?

I would think whenever you start putting in stiffer / less compliant parts your gonna increase the harshness of the ride.

I know what you mean with the "year on the quarter" statement. I can almost feel the texture of the pavement through the floorboard of the Stang. My ride quality sucks the big one but the car handles GREAT! Which is what I expected when I started my rebuild.

Smooth roads to marginal roads are tolerable. But when I hit potholed or rough roads....forget abbout it. I have to slow to a crawl lest my teeth be shaken from my head.

Maybe a Koni yellow or red adjustable shock would be more to your liking so you can dial in the feel you like.

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post #18 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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I think my issues are more sloppy steering related than anything. It just doesn't feel "tight", I'm not sure really. The car rides pretty smooth when it's on a good road such as a highway and absorbs the smaller bumps pretty good, it's just the hard ones that let you know they are there.

What would "tighten" up the feel and feedback of the car through the steering wheel? Also, would the poly engine and trans mount help with movement of the engine/trans? I can't see that stock trans mount holding up and doing a good job with the heavier tremec hanging on it.

-Dave
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post #19 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 05:32 PM
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Ok I get you now.

A-arms
ball joints
bumpsteer kit
add more caster
steering rack bushings (either poly or aluminum)
steering rack. if you put in a sn95 rack the on center feel will tighten up as well as the effort required to steer. I believe the sn95 racks are like 30% stiffer.

If you have wider tires you may be getting some tramlining effect as well from minor rutts in the road. I got it pretty bad after I stuffed 9" wide rims under all 4 corners of my '86 LX.

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post #20 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 05:59 PM
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May also check your steering shaft. The rag joint may be fubar'd from age.
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post #21 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 06:23 PM
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Every Ford product I've owned has had the rag joint fail! I'm going to go with the whole quick ratio manual steering kit.

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Looking for MAF conversion parts.
Looking for 5-spd conversion parts.
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post #22 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 06:57 PM
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What kind of tires are you running? What psi?
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post #23 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 07:02 PM
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I drove my bone-stock 89 5.0 without the rag joint for years after it randomly fell out. It was pretty funny when auto-x'ing the car or when in traffic to turn the steering wheel back and forth but the car didn't move. I felt the comedic value was worth the dead steering feel, but then again, I drive a car in Texas without AC so I'm a bit odd.
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post #24 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meangrn92GT View Post
Stock ones!!! Blah! If I'm spending money I'm getting an upgrade of some sort.


I want to go with a MM K member/A-arm setup but not sure if I should go with offset arms or not. I'm thinking heavily about switching down to a 8" wheel too so I can take out one set of rack limiters to get some turning radius back.

Ugh, I hate these cars and their money requirements.
<---- MM K-member with forward offset arms....17x9 03 Cobras ALL the way around. 275/40s on all four corners. DEW EET!

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AFR FTI EDEL Combo. MM, T-56 3.73, Brembo, 275s on 03 Cobras all around
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post #25 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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I'll have to see what brand the fronts are, I can't remember but I know they were fairly cheap. Tire PSI is 30 or 32(thinking 32) in all four.

What would give me the biggest bang for the buck in terms of helping "feel" of the car currently? I'm doing K member/A-arms/ball joints for sure this winter, how do I test the steering shaft to see if the rag joint is damaged?

Are rack bushings worth the coin? Sway bar end link bushings? Like I said before I believe most of my discomfort is coming from the front of the car, I'd like to put an IRS in the rear too. Me and my projects....haha

Stanger_Matt, I bet your car is a blast to drive based on your sig!

-Dave
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post #26 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 08:53 PM
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Just like any rubber part, check for chunking, ripping, tearing and general floppyness.
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post #27 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 09:00 PM
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your rack bushings and rag joint are probably shot. my rack bushings were letting my rack move back and forth a quarter inch easy. solid ones helped allot.

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
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post #28 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 09:24 PM
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your rack bushings and rag joint are probably shot. my rack bushings were letting my rack move back and forth a quarter inch easy. solid ones helped allot.
Mine was similar. My brother turned the wheel while I watched. The rack would shift slightly due to the play/age of the bushings. The steering shaft was worn too...the steering wheel could be turned a bit during driving and the car wouldn't turn. lol

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post #29 of 137 Old 09-23-2009, 09:44 PM
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Tire PSI is 30 or 32(thinking 32) in all four.

What would give me the biggest bang for the buck in terms of helping "feel"
Pump your ####in' tires up

Give us the size and speed rating. And put 8 lbs more air in every tire so it's 40 all around and see how it feels.

edit: This was MFE on her login...oops
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post #30 of 137 Old 09-24-2009, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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Don't make fun of my air pressures!!!!lol

I'll check the steering shaft and rack bushings today and see what I come up with. I'm def throwing some money at the front of the car this winter, after thinking about it I'm going to buy everything and do it all at once.

I hope the MM K-Member/A-arm setup is really justified price wise vs the other companies.

-Dave
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post #31 of 137 Old 09-24-2009, 08:25 AM
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I have a couple fox coupes. One is a pretty low mile car, the other is not. Both have about the same suspension. The low mileage car seems like it rides way better though. I believe since it has tight steering & very few creaks & rattles that I perceive it as riding better. Maybe it is just me?
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post #32 of 137 Old 09-24-2009, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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I'm sure the tighter the steering the better the overall experience is going to feel. I'm shocked my car is quiet inside as it is really but it's not too bad and most of the sound deadener is gone.

-Dave
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post #33 of 137 Old 09-24-2009, 09:06 AM
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Going to rear co's will greatly reduce NVH and ride quality in the rear.

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post #34 of 137 Old 09-24-2009, 09:34 AM
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I'm totally serious...pump the tires up and tell us how it feels. 32 lbs is WAY too low for street tires, on the street. And what about those tires? If you tell us they're 215/65 HR 16's....
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post #35 of 137 Old 09-24-2009, 09:41 AM
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I'm totally serious...pump the tires up and tell us how it feels. 32 lbs is WAY too low for street tires, on the street. And what about those tires? If you tell us they're 215/65 HR 16's....
Why is 32 psi way too low for a street tire on the street? I have always run 32 psi without any ill effects, even running 275/40/17 Goodyear F1 on 17x9 and 2 deg neg camber.

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