where to get a good quality ps pump for a fox - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 159 Old 09-22-2009, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
where to get a good quality ps pump for a fox

i needed a new one over the summer and i got one from advance, its an a1-cardone, and it makes more noise than my last pump and the wheels still shudder across the pavement when you turn lock to lock going slow, or stopped. any recomendations? i also put a cardone rack in there too, and ive been reading on sn 95 racks. do you recomend that might be the shutter too?


1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 159 Old 09-22-2009, 09:24 AM
MFE
Super Moderator
 
MFE's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 27,649
The shuddering will go away once you get all the air out of the lines, and keep it out, as long as your tie rod ends are 100% perfect and any bumpsteer spacer stack you have is 100% tight.

MFE is offline  
post #3 of 159 Old 09-22-2009, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
ive bled it of air a ton. ive put a vacuum on it, and taken the cap off to bleed it a ton. if theres air in there then its not coming out. all the tie rod ends are new, and i don't have it bump steered. could that be it?

mm told me to loosen the rack, pull it foward and try it then, cause the mount surface could be uneven but ive tried that and it seems to be okay.

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 159 Old 09-22-2009, 11:21 AM
MFE
Super Moderator
 
MFE's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 27,649
What kind of fluid are you using?
MFE is offline  
post #5 of 159 Old 09-22-2009, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
mercon 5, pretty sure its advance brand, might be castrol

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #6 of 159 Old 09-22-2009, 01:51 PM
Registered User
 
90lx86svo's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: DFW/TX
Posts: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by fivespeedsteed View Post
mercon 5, pretty sure its advance brand, might be castrol
Get synthetic fluid like Mobil 1. They foam a lot less than conventional fluids.

90LX,Griggs,Cobra Brakes,ABS,331
86 SVO
95 Lightning
90lx86svo is offline  
post #7 of 159 Old 09-22-2009, 07:59 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 208
Isn't the P/S pump supposed to use Type-F, not Mercon?

'91 5.0 LX convertible
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
With modifications....
'11 5.0 GT coupe
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tripleblackragtop is offline  
post #8 of 159 Old 09-22-2009, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
i looked it up and it said type f, then other places told me mercon v was better fluid. what kind of synthetic fluid? just atf?

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #9 of 159 Old 09-23-2009, 05:05 PM
Registered User
 
aod109's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: your mom's closet
Posts: 1,296
type f ATF is what you need to use in our PS pumps.

Noun 1) Megadeath - the death of a million people; "they calibrate the effects of atom bombs in megadeaths".
aod109 is offline  
post #10 of 159 Old 09-24-2009, 11:09 AM
Registered User
 
90lx86svo's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: DFW/TX
Posts: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by fivespeedsteed View Post
i looked it up and it said type f, then other places told me mercon v was better fluid. what kind of synthetic fluid? just atf?
I have used Mobil 1 Mercon ATF for the last 15 years without any issues.


90LX,Griggs,Cobra Brakes,ABS,331
86 SVO
95 Lightning
90lx86svo is offline  
post #11 of 159 Old 09-24-2009, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
everywhere said type f, but most people told me mercon was in general a better fluid. switching to a synthetic probably isnt a bad idea, but the hose on the back of the reservoir ( dont remember if its pressure or return ) was leaking at the reservoir, so im guessing synthetic would make it leak allot. this power steering pump is more loud than my stock one, and ive tried bleeding it. is there anything we can upgrade to? where can you find a better quality replacement one than cardone?

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #12 of 159 Old 09-24-2009, 01:33 PM
Registered User
 
90lx86svo's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: DFW/TX
Posts: 630
There are so few rebuilders that is is a crap shoot. I would find either a good used one or get a reman one from Ford.

90LX,Griggs,Cobra Brakes,ABS,331
86 SVO
95 Lightning
90lx86svo is offline  
post #13 of 159 Old 09-24-2009, 08:15 PM
Registered User
 
aod109's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: your mom's closet
Posts: 1,296
You can do the "canned ham" PS pump upgrade. ie saginaw pumps. Other than that you are pretty much S.O.L. for a quiet Ford PS pump. every single one I have ever had or installed has been a whining BEEOOOTCH!

Saginaw Pump Install on a 5.0 engine

Noun 1) Megadeath - the death of a million people; "they calibrate the effects of atom bombs in megadeaths".
aod109 is offline  
post #14 of 159 Old 09-24-2009, 08:34 PM
Registered User
 
87Fox5.0's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 543
Drill open the PS pump restrictor one to two sizes bigger.

Also Cardone racks SUCK.

Get one from www.buy-steering.com (the 2.5 LTL model)

'87 Fox C-Prepared Mustang
2013, 2015 Pacific NW Regional Champ
Car has trophied at 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 SCCA Nationals
Zero scrub SLA front end

Last edited by 87Fox5.0; 09-24-2009 at 08:37 PM.
87Fox5.0 is offline  
post #15 of 159 Old 09-25-2009, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
ive still got some popping when turning, and im pretty sure its my rack. i thought us fox guys did sn racks for their better valving? i can find a used one of those too, oem. but if that website sells real good racks ill get one from there.

1990 GT hatch 5 speed

Last edited by fivespeedsteed; 09-25-2009 at 09:23 AM.
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #16 of 159 Old 09-25-2009, 11:10 AM
Registered User
 
d brune's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 1,953
Find a SN95 rack (I have a Cardone rebuilt and its fine), get the MM steering shaft to convert the Fox to the SN95 rack, get a new pump (warranty the one you have), and fix the leak on the return line at the pump. Install everything and be sure to put new teflon washers on the rack side of the power steering hoses. Fill the pump with a quality synthetic Type F fluid and hand prime the system by turning the pump pulley by hand. This is easier to do with the front end off the ground and the car properly supported. I had a buddy turn the steering wheel back and forth while I was manually priming the pump. Be sure the fluid level is good in the pump and start the motor. Slowly go lock to lock with the steering wheel and add fluid as needed. This is how I did my install and the pump is quiet. Once you run one of these pumps low on fluid they will whine from that point on. Typically if you replace the rack you need to replace the pump as metal shavings will get into the pump and kill it.

I look at it this way, once you have bought the reman units they are lifetime warranty so if one of them dies just replace them both. Also, if you get a SN95 rack realize that you will have to swap the inner tie-rods from the Fox rack to the SN95 rack. The threads on the racks themselves are the same but the SN95 inner tie-rods are longer and metric on the threads that the outer tie-rods attach to. Do a search on this and it will come up.

Darren

'83 5.8L TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle
'93 5.4L Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD

Last edited by d brune; 09-25-2009 at 11:13 AM.
d brune is offline  
post #17 of 159 Old 09-25-2009, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
i knew it was something with the threads. yeah ive got a new cardone rack and pump. so im probably going to do something with the warranty on both. ive got a guy sending me an oem pump for cost of shipping so im probably gonna give that one a shot, but the rack will be warrantied, i work at advance so i should be able to accomplish that one. plus since an 03 rack is newer it will probably be in better shape in general than a 90 one. all 99-04 racks are the same right? minus cobra i know.

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #18 of 159 Old 09-25-2009, 12:47 PM
Registered User
 
d brune's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 1,953
I believe they are. I know the inner tie-rods from 94-98 are but I am not sure about the 99+. You could verify that at work but I think that is correct.

I have a 2000 GT rack on my 93 Coupe and on my 83 T-Bird so I know that one works with the Fox inner tie rods and power steering lines.

Darren

'83 5.8L TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle
'93 5.4L Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD
d brune is offline  
post #19 of 159 Old 09-25-2009, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
and changing the inners isnt hard right, once you get the boot out of the way

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #20 of 159 Old 09-25-2009, 03:34 PM
Registered User
 
d brune's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 1,953
Not really...it is if the rack is on the ground. I have found that it is easiest to keep the Fox rack installed and remove the inners. Remove the Fox rack and bolt up the SN95 rack. Remove the SN95 inners and install the Fox inners. Thread up the Fox inners on the SN95 rack, toss back in box, and return.

I believe this required a 1-1/4 wrench or crescent that can go that big. You can just use zip ties to secure the boots back on when you are done.

Darren

'83 5.8L TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle
'93 5.4L Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD
d brune is offline  
post #21 of 159 Old 09-25-2009, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
zip ties is fine thats what there on there with now. ive got another knocking, when i sit and turn the wheel from one to 11 oclock and back and forth it knocks, my ragjoint is in really good shape but i think the joint above that is loose. is it hard to change out the shaft? im probably gonna do a mm solid one, and then a sn rack at the same time as the ps pump.

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #22 of 159 Old 09-25-2009, 08:30 PM
Registered User
 
d brune's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 1,953
Is your car an air bag car or tilt column? The reason I ask is the tilt columns are notorious for coming apart at the tilt joint which could be some of the knock and/or slack. Most likely its all in the steering shaft with the rag joint.

Darren

'83 5.8L TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle
'93 5.4L Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD
d brune is offline  
post #23 of 159 Old 09-25-2009, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
no i thought of that, cause my jeeps steering wheel bearing whines, i thought it could be something like that but this is definaly under the hood. my cars an airbag car. its a 90. first year of bags. if i had a stethascope i could probably find it, while someone moves my wheel. im pretty sure its either the rack or the shaft though. the joint looks rusted some so thats my guess. my rag joint looks real good is the odd thing.

thank you for all your help man.

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #24 of 159 Old 09-28-2009, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
so to confirm my final parts list is:

99-04 rack
mm solid steering shaft fox w. sn rack
my new pump

and do i need outer tie rods for a sn rack now right? should i just get a bumpsteer kit ? do i absolutley need the bumpsteer gauge to get it setup right or can i install a bumpsteer kit and get it so it works for just driving until i can afford to get a gauge to set it up?

is that all i need? for the install instructions for the shaft, it says other things are required for a sn rack on a fox. is that just the rack, tierods inner and outer?i can re use my fox ps lines right? where am i going to find a synthetic type f?

i dont know if i should trust an advance cardone rack. i might try to find a nice one somewhere. buy power steering, or one off rock auto thats not cardone, or one off latemodel?

1990 GT hatch 5 speed

Last edited by fivespeedsteed; 09-28-2009 at 12:17 PM.
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #25 of 159 Old 09-28-2009, 12:29 PM
Registered User
 
d brune's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 1,953
Stock Fox power steering line lines will work on the SN95 rack. Be sure to get the Teflon seals for the rack ends of the power steering lines. I believe the parts stores will either have them or can order them. You can reuse the Fox outer tie-rods which is one of the reasons for switching the inner tie-rods so the threads will mesh. I like the Mobil 1 synthetic power steering fluid and I know the Autozone here stocks it.

Bump steer...geez you would ask. I have the MM through bolt bump steer kits on both of my cars as they are coil overed and much lower than stock. Look under your car now and see if the tie-rod assemblies are parallel to the lower control arms. With lowered cars typically they are lower than the LCA's. If this is the case then a bump steer kit is needed. IF you have the factory K-member then just get the tapered bump steer kit. This is a direct bolt-in so it makes life easier. IF you have an aftermarket K-member then you will most likely need the added adjustment of the bolt through bump steer kit which required the spindles to be drilled and this would mean you are most likely running the '96 and up SN95 spindles.

If you need a bump steer kit the initial setup is to make the tie-rod assembly parallel with the LCA. Now in my experience this is fine for a street driven car unless you experience the car tending to wonder on the road or wanting to dart left or right when you hit a bump in the road at speed. This indicates that you still have a bump steer problem and you will need a gauge to set it up properly.

Hope this helped.

Darren

'83 5.8L TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle
'93 5.4L Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD
d brune is offline  
post #26 of 159 Old 09-28-2009, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
my caster is only at 3.2 degrees or so and id like to shove them all the way back to the firewall, but ive been told this will hurt my bumpsteer. my tie rods now are pretty parallel with my control arms. they point up thats for sure, but they are fairly level w. the ca's.

so just use synthetic ps fluid? not type f or anything?

i have 94-95 spindles, and im getting some wander, but i think its related to my tires / toe setting. so a tapered setup is fine for me (street fun car) and i dont need the bumpsteer gauge or to pull the suspension apart and do it without springs in the car and then re assemble and all that?

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #27 of 159 Old 09-28-2009, 01:25 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: .
Posts: 10,098
I have an AGR rack + a Ford reman'd P/S pump and it is silent, no shudders, etc. Only problem now is the steering feels really assisted.

.
Cellos88gt is offline  
post #28 of 159 Old 09-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Registered User
 
d brune's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 1,953
Here is some good reading on steering rack bushings which may help some of your steering chatter:

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/co...shing_tech.php


I would suggest the tapered stud kit for your application and a good front end alignment with the settings MM suggests in their caster/camber plate installation instructions on pages 4 and 5 :

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/co...MMCC9093r6.pdf

I run about 4 to 4.5 degrees of caster in my car with no issues. The front end settings are as they suggested in the installation instructions and the car tracks great.

The Mobil 1 synthetic ATF covers a broad range of types of fluid. I have run this in my T-5 and power steering for years and not had a problem.

What I would suggest is put the car together with the parallel rule of thumb and see how it goes. Bump steering a car is time consuming but well worth it if you are having a problem with it. I would say it is mandatory with a track car.

Darren

'83 5.8L TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle
'93 5.4L Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD
d brune is offline  
post #29 of 159 Old 09-28-2009, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
its not a track car by any means, does a tapered setup require less setup? youve run 4.5 degrees caster without any bumpsteer issues?

ive got solid center drilled mm rack bushings.

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #30 of 159 Old 09-29-2009, 01:40 AM
Registered User
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Danville, CA USA
Posts: 3,013
What FCA do you have on the car? On a 90 Fox with MM c/c plates, the car should have about 3.2 degrees of caster when the c/c plates are set for maximum caster.

Jack Hidley
Maximum Motorsports Tech Support
Jack Hidley is offline  
post #31 of 159 Old 09-29-2009, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fivespeedsteed's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 395
front control arms? its a stock k member with stock arms and prothane bushings. its got about 2.9 degrees caster now that i looked the specs up. the plates for the strut are about in the middle of the cc plate. i want to push them back about a half inch on each side but i dont want that to make me bumpsteer.

i always thought if they were pushed back all the way you were close to 5 and 6 degrees

1990 GT hatch 5 speed
fivespeedsteed is offline  
post #32 of 159 Old 09-29-2009, 12:13 PM
Registered User
 
aod109's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: your mom's closet
Posts: 1,296
fivespeedsteed:

I think how much max caster you can get, varies based on the type of cc plate you have. I know that I had to take my cc plates off and open up the hole in the strut tower a little with a grinder, because my plates (on one side) would hit the side of the hole before reaching it's max setting allowed by the plate.

Noun 1) Megadeath - the death of a million people; "they calibrate the effects of atom bombs in megadeaths".
aod109 is offline  
post #33 of 159 Old 09-29-2009, 12:29 PM
Registered User
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Danville, CA USA
Posts: 3,013
The MM c/c plates allow 1.125" of fore/aft strut movement. This translates into a total caster adjustment range of 2.8 degrees. If your plates can be moved back another 1/2" then with them all the way back, you will have 2.9 + (2.8*(0.5/1.125)) = 4.1 degrees.

This could be fixed very easily with a bumpsteer kit.

Jack Hidley
Maximum Motorsports Tech Support
Jack Hidley is offline  
post #34 of 159 Old 10-03-2009, 08:02 PM
Registered User
 
pkstang's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (161)
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Marlborough, MA
Posts: 7,486
Question

do any of these steering pump options have an advantage over the factory fox C-2 unit with the MFE spring mod???

explorer C-3 pump

vs

saginaw: http://www.azbronco.org/tech08.htm

vs

GM Type II: http://www.breezeautomotive.com/deta...=677&cat_id=12

vs

any other option i have left out

and note that i did not include maximum motorsports for the simple fact that its lot of $$$

'90 notch w/an "old school" cartech outlaw kit
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When The Results Disagree With The Theory: Believe The Results And Invent A New Theory

Last edited by pkstang; 10-03-2009 at 08:06 PM.
pkstang is offline  
post #35 of 159 Old 10-03-2009, 08:43 PM
Registered User
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Danville, CA USA
Posts: 3,013
The Saginaw pumps are designed for steering systems that operate with a much higher fluid volume flow rate than a Ford system. If you use one on a Mustang, you are going to have much lower steering effort. The conversion you linked is for someone putting it on a Bronco. He probably likes the reduced steering effort.

The pump in the other link has some obvious issues from the photos. That bracket is going to be too flexible with the pump cantilevered down off of the plate. The outlet fitting is point straight up, the opposite direction that you want it to go. You are going to need to do some funky hose routing. It's a bit hard to tell from the photo, but I don't think the reservoir pickup hose will clear a battery in the stock location, on a Mustang. They should have mounted the pump higher on the engine, but that would have required a more complex mounting bracket design and might not clear something on an FFR.

Jack Hidley
Maximum Motorsports Tech Support
Jack Hidley is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good Quality Replacement Fox Fenders? Anyone Recomend? Karl Wesson The Body Shop 15 07-03-2009 01:19 AM
WTB: Good Quality Car Cover For Fox GT CATCHMEIFUCAN Exterior Parts 0 03-18-2006 12:26 PM
Prochargers?? good quality? ian022 Superchargers 27 08-24-2004 01:40 PM
Where can I get a good quality hood from? J95SNAKE The Body Shop 6 07-01-2002 01:25 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome