New build for a noob. I have several questions. - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 Old 07-08-2009, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 361
New build for a noob. I have several questions.

The car is a 95 GTS..
Ive done the drag racing stuff for years and now I want to build a track only car. That means striped, everything solid mounted, and sphericals everywhere. I need everyones help in doing it right the first time. Im not spending crazy money but Im not staying with anything stock. Bang for the buck is what Im looking for. Here are my ideas and these can be changed or added to.

-MM K-member & coil overs with 300 or 320 springs. Not sure on shock but love beilsten shocks

-IRS out of a 03 cobra (got one for free) solid mounts through out. Not sure on shock. Is there a IRS coil over setup? Not sure on rear spring.

-Im thinking about these drop spindles. They are expensive but I hope NOT to have to buy bumpsteer and camber/caster plates and thats $300 towards these. I just think the suspension will work better
http://www.racecraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=300103

-Im running 18x10 CCW road race wheels all around with hopefully 195 tires all around. Not sure about what to do with the fenders. I like the Tiger stuff but I only found those for the front and they are a good bit of money as well.

-Motor is going to be a rebuilt short block (306) with 185 AFR heads, Cobra intake, and long tubes as well as all supporting stuff; fuel, TB, mass air, ect.

-Transmission is probably going to stay with the stock one and have it gone through.

-brakes are 03 cobras front and rear with Hawk pads and vented rotors.

-Cage by these guys and welded in by me
http://wildridesracecars.com/store/p...cat=253&page=1

-Not sure what to do on the fuel cell.


This is enough to get me going and I will be on here needing help with little idea through out the build. Thanks and here are a few picture. I havent even striped it yet








Last edited by racing4funn; 07-09-2009 at 04:12 PM.
racing4funn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 07-09-2009, 11:59 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 412
I'd back away from the smoking credit card for awhile.

It's been said 153,847,098 times ad nasuem that the best thing to do to the car is to get it running in tip-top stock shape and then spend time on the driver.

Are you racing a specific class? Why got ot the expense of all these bling-bling items until you know you like it? From what you have stated, you are going to go overkill without turning a wheel on a road course without any experience behind the wheel.

From my time at the track, the last thing anyone wants is to be on the course with someone that has had nil for seat time in a rocket of a car.

Here is a link. Read. Learn. Do.

http://www.protoworks.com/cgi-bin/C-C_Wiki.pl


Wishing everyone peace, love, and the perfect apex . . . everytime.
89FirehawkGT is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 07-09-2009, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 361
Good link.. Thanks


Im not jumping in with cash blazing. Since Ive been into mustangs nearly 20 years, I have a lot of parts around. All I need is a cage, k-member and front coil over, fuel cell, shocks, and tires. I already have everything else, seats and belts, motor and parts, brakes, wheels, IRS.. Just want the car performing well so it will be up to the task of a road race car that has NO street duties. Why not strip the hell out of it?

As far as racing class goes, probably fall into SCCA's Street Modified

Last edited by racing4funn; 07-09-2009 at 04:55 PM.
racing4funn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 Old 07-11-2009, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 361
New question I need opinions.

Im thinking about running manual steering and brakes.

Flaming River rack and MM manual brake kit

Since its a track car only and there is no ABS (Dont want one either)

Edited above sentence. I said no IRS and that wasnt what I meant. I am running a IRS and I DONT want ABS and the car dosnt have it anyways

Last edited by racing4funn; 07-12-2009 at 12:05 PM.
racing4funn is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 07-11-2009, 05:22 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 412
SM is a Solo II class...thats not an OT thing, same but different.

Wishing everyone peace, love, and the perfect apex . . . everytime.
89FirehawkGT is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 07-11-2009, 06:42 PM
MFE
Super Moderator
 
MFE's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 27,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by racing4funn View Post
New question I need opinions.

Im thinking about running manual steering and brakes.
Why?
MFE is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 07-11-2009, 07:52 PM
Registered User
 
2k2GT's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lenoir City, TN
Posts: 6,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFE View Post
Why?
Cheaper/less stuff to go wrong/lighter are the only things I can think of.
2k2GT is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 07-12-2009, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFE View Post
Why?
Dont want a power steering pump. Dont want the slight inconsistency and weight of the power booster.

Guess my question is mostly, why not?

Im afraid there might be something Im over looking that would change my mind.
racing4funn is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 07-13-2009, 03:36 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 412
Quoted from asedan.net

I tried it for a little bit and hated having my arms feel like jell-o after a session. After a weekend the drive home was torture. Road feel was a bit better but for me it was not worth paying for it 2 days later. The icing on the cake was when someone I know got hit on the right side tire while turning right and he broke bones in both wrists and one of his thumbs from the steering wheel snapping back.

I have to fight the car in corners with the manual rack. The large amount of force required to maintain control makes it difficult to make fine steering adjustments quickly.

Seasoned racers opinions about manual steering. Think about that with 18x10 wheels and Godzilla-sized tires.

Manual brakes, whatever you want. Depends it you want to a hard pedal or a soft one.

Wishing everyone peace, love, and the perfect apex . . . everytime.
89FirehawkGT is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 07-14-2009, 02:17 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: At the apex, blocking your pass.
Posts: 2,133
Manual steering -- sucks. You'll get plenty of feedback from a factory power steering setup. manual steering is going to cost more (you have to buy the manual steering rack and associated bits.) I can count the number of Mustang race cars and track cars that I know that use a manual steering setup on one hand and still have enough fingers left over for a high-five.

If you're having to muscle a manual steering wheel, you aren't able to fully concentrate on learning how to control the car. You certainly aren't capable of staying relaxed in the seat (an important exercise.) Especially in slow corners.

Power steering is the way to go. Don't make yourself do unnecessary crap right now.


Power Brakes. Nice feedback, but not head and shoulders over a properly set up power system, and the factory setup is properly setup. You can get a VERY firm pedal using the power booster. Remember, the booster affects pedal effort, NOT pedal travel. A power setup is just as capable of producing a sort, form pedal as is a manual brake setup.

The ONLY thing that may give you an inconsistant brake pedal is lack of vacuum from a heavily cammed racing motor with crappy vacuum. My mild motor with 9" of vacuum at idle works my brakes just fine, and if you do have vacuum issues, you can increase the volume of your booster by adding a simple vacuum bottle between the booster and the booster's vacuum check valve.

Again, don't make things harder on yourself. Leave the brakes alone until you run across a specific problem to fix.

At this point, you're so inexperianced, you don't know what a problem is and what isn't.

You sound like you're getting yourself wound up in the modding aspect of open track driving and not the DRIVING aspect, which is a bit backwards, IMHO. Speaking as an instructor, we don't CARE what kind of equipment you have, or what modifications to the car you've made.

We do care about how good a driver you are and what kind of wisdom you show on the track. Driving well and being courtious will move you up faster in the run groups that having a tricked-out car will.

A guy who has good car control and who is an attentive and willing student will impress me a LOT more than one who's spent all his time (and money,) on modifications that ultimately won't make his car any faster (at this level,) and will likely make it slower and harder to drive.


-- Robert King
NASA AI #42, Texas
Instructor, NASA Texas Region
Instructor, TWS Perf. Driving School
gt40mkII is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 07-14-2009, 05:35 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Nowhere, Special
Posts: 574
Even after your on track for a couple years, you're not going to feel inconsistencies in your power brakes, if ever. I know some guys with older cars who would kill for power steering out there too. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

You said you didn't want to go crazy spending money, you should focus on the things that either need attention to be safe or will make your car easier to drive. Tires, brakes, properly set up suspension, cooling system, an engine that won't leave oil or coolant all over the track, etc. are what you need to do. The rest will be a matter of choice once you get familiar with the car and driving it at those speeds.

Oh one more thing, going R compound while learning to drive on track is crazy in my book, street tires will tell you what's going on alot better (audibly) than R's and once you know the limits of your car, the switch will be much easier.
MJ91GT is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 07-14-2009, 06:10 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: At the apex, blocking your pass.
Posts: 2,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ91GT View Post
Oh one more thing, going R compound while learning to drive on track is crazy in my book, street tires will tell you what's going on alot better (audibly) than R's and once you know the limits of your car, the switch will be much easier.
Good point. Like you said, street tires are noisier, giving you a tell-tale sign when you're approacing the limit. (Street tires will "sing" under hard cornering. When that singing turns to a howl -- and you'll be able to hear it, trust me -- they're about to start sliding.)

Other reasons not to run R-comps right now:
  • they're expensive, and that money is better making the car safer, or more reliable, in that order. After that, it should be spent on the driver -- period.
  • they're sensitive to abuse. As a beginner, you're going to be abusing your tires. Your street suspension and alignment will be abusive to the tires, too. You'll be turning those expensive, sticky R-compound tires into expensive little blobs of rubber on the outside of the corners.
  • Swapping out tires at the track is a hassle and adds to the hectic pace and stress of the day.
  • You have to figure out how to schlep those trick tires to and from the track. You could drive them to the track, but they'll soon wead down to the point were their's no tread left making them illegal on the street and downright dangerous in standing water (and if you shave your tires -- and you should of you want them to live more than a couple of weekends -- they'll be illegal from the get-go.)
  • They're hard to drive at the limit. R-compounds work at a narrower slip angle compared to street tires. The bigger that angle, the more gradually the car brakes loose and the easier it is to recover once it does break loose. R-compounds are pretty unforgiving in this manner, so of you cross over the threshold, it's MUCH harder to save the car, You're in for a wild ride.

-- Robert King
NASA AI #42, Texas
Instructor, NASA Texas Region
Instructor, TWS Perf. Driving School
gt40mkII is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 07-14-2009, 06:29 PM
Registered User
 
PaulMan's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 749
great advice here. Better to push the limits of the car as you gradually modify it and learn the ropes of road course driving

'90 LX 5.0 - HPDE Car
24 Hrs. of Lemons/Chump Car Series - Grim Reaper Racing '94 Mustang V6
PaulMan is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 07-15-2009, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 361
All good feedback! Thanks bunches

The car has been setting for years and has 190k miles on it. So, I will be rebuilding or replacing everything. With that said, I still believe that leaving the steering powered will be cheaper and it would be much easier to learn with and can be changed down the road but I have a feeling I wont because if its that hard to manhandle, well Im a little lazy. Still not sure on the brakes.

I had street tires in mind. I like the new Nitto NT05
racing4funn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Two Supercharger Noob Questions Slow5oh Superchargers 1 05-18-2009 09:15 AM
need some help. noob questions. 5.0Torx General Mustang Tech 0 07-23-2006 05:51 PM
Idjit NooB Questions 95CobraDenver General Mustang Tech 1 09-25-2005 12:03 PM
Noob questions: what do you want to see? KC LX Road Racing/Auto X 19 08-25-2004 01:57 PM
Noob S/C questions... jonyboy107 Superchargers 10 12-07-2003 09:39 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome