SN95 Front C.A. swap on Fox. What wheels? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 06-20-2009, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation SN95 Front C.A. swap on Fox. What wheels?

I know of a couple of people at least that have done this swap here. I have gone back to look at the posts but noone seems to even mention what wheels will work in the front. The posts are kinda old and I can't see the pictures anymore.

My story: 1988 4 cylinder coupe with V8 swap. Installed Cobra brakes in the front and got terrible positive camber. Then someone told me about the longer control arms out of SN95's and gave me a link to this site. I got a set off a 95 GT and installed (weird "side effect" was the new C.A. dropped the car about another inch, too!). My 17x8 '95 Cobra wheels hit my fenders even with the camber ALL THE WAY negative (this might also be a function of how low the car is sitting now). So I've been reading for months now, on and off, but can't seem to get an answer about wheels... so I'm posting.

I have almost become an expert now (at least in understanding) about wheel offsets/backspacing. So I *think* the 05+ Bullits could work but have no idea if these are going to clear the Cobra brakes with the more-than-half-an-inch extra backspacing compared to the previous 17x8's.

While I'm here asking, does anyone know FOR SURE if there really is a difference between '94-'95 spindles and '96+ spindles?

I'm sorry this is such a long post, but I tried to include as much info as possible!

-Victor

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post #2 of 17 Old 06-20-2009, 06:11 PM
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I have an 86 GT; did the sn95 Cobra brake upgrade and used 04 Mach 1 a-arms with "C" springs and 96 cobra 17x8 wheels with 245/45s. Had the same experience; lost about another .5" ride height due to the longer a-arms having more leverage on the spring; height was 25" ground to fender lip in the front - could hardley get my fat index finder between the top of the tire and the fender. This put my fender into contact with the tire when stopping and on some corners even with -1.5* camber. My solution was to get an MM C/O kit and raise it up. It now sits at 25.75". I haven't had it out since this mod but I think this will clear; if not, I'll clearance the finders.

Regarding the 94/95 and 96 spindle differences, go to MM's site and read the tech on spindles. They have pictures and explain the issues very well.


Last edited by qtrracer; 06-20-2009 at 06:15 PM.
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post #3 of 17 Old 06-20-2009, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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qtrracer, I really appreciate your response and info! I'll look into the spindle issue on MM's website. I hope you get your ride all good to go. I have some stock springs out of the same '95 GT I got the control arms from... for cheap, too! I wanted to try stock ride height springs to see what I would need as far as lowering springs later on... work hasn't left enough spare time to install those. I might just go with coil overs instead of lowering springs later on.

Edit: The info on the spindles was actually VERY good. They even have pictures, which helped me realize I got 96+ spindles. NOT good. This is not the first screw up on the part of "Stainless Steel Brake Company" (SSBC) with their "Cobra" brake kit. They actually told me 94-99 spindles were all the same.

Last edited by Victor50; 06-21-2009 at 12:21 PM.
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post #4 of 17 Old 06-21-2009, 12:56 PM
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qtrracer, I really appreciate your response and info! I'll look into the spindle issue on MM's website. I hope you get your ride all good to go.
You're welcome and thanks; always a WIP, but I think this time I have it solved.

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Edit: The info on the spindles was actually VERY good. They even have pictures, which helped me realize I got 96+ spindles.
FWIW, I messed up too. There are a lot of sellers who don't know the difference in the spindles (either through ignorance or purposeful), and being a buyer I should have done better research but didn't. Hence, my first spindle purchase was the 96+; big surprise to me when I found out. However, based upon what the MM tech says I'm saving them for the k-member upgrade. Good luck.
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post #5 of 17 Old 06-21-2009, 04:28 PM
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I have 03 Cobra Control arms with 04 Mach 1 spindles on my car and 18x8.5 +25 offset BBS RK's will not fit stock fenders with 255/40/18 azenis' without 5 degrees of negative camber up front.
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post #6 of 17 Old 06-22-2009, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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I did read about the 96+ spindles working better with the MM k member. I will save for that but I can't just park my car and wait for that so I'll have to bite the bullet and get the right spindles.

On the BBS RK's... that's too bad. I really like those wheels... one more I can cross off my list.
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post #7 of 17 Old 06-22-2009, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Victor50 View Post
On the BBS RK's... that's too bad. I really like those wheels... one more I can cross off my list.
But wait; IIRC, you have the narrower K-member like I have on the 86. Not certain what K WhiteSSP has; if it's the 88-93 v8 k, that has a 1" wider track to start with so adding the longer a-arms plus the 96 spindles presents an entirely different picture than you have currently. Need more info before writing-off the RKs assuming price isn't an issue.
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post #8 of 17 Old 06-22-2009, 01:25 PM
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Since you have the narrow K-member, any stock 17"x8" Ford wheel with 245/45R17 tires should work with the SN95 A-arms.

The stock Ford wheels will all spec out at 17"x8" with 5.72" BS and 30mm offset.

You may need to roll the fendser which will also pull it out a little. This is a proven combination. With the '94-'95 spindle you shouldn't even need to roll the fender.


--Vince

+ JalapeƱo Red 1985 Mustang GT, 347 in^3, Canfield heads, 650DP, X-Celerator, & 1-3/4" LT's
+ Tremec 3550, D&D shifter, 3.73:1 gears, & TrueTrac differential
+ EVM watts & 3-link, Homemade LCA's, & Koni SA's
+ '00 Cobra R Brembos in front and SN95 Cobra rear brakes, R58 rims, & 275/40R17 Falkens
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post #9 of 17 Old 06-25-2009, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by qtrracer View Post
But wait; IIRC, you have the narrower K-member like I have on the 86. Not certain what K WhiteSSP has; if it's the 88-93 v8 k, that has a 1" wider track to start with so adding the longer a-arms plus the 96 spindles presents an entirely different picture than you have currently. Need more info before writing-off the RKs assuming price isn't an issue.
I see what you're saying. I'll research the wheels better and see what offset/backspacing they have.


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Originally Posted by 85GTVince View Post
Since you have the narrow K-member, any stock 17"x8" Ford wheel with 245/45R17 tires should work with the SN95 A-arms.

The stock Ford wheels will all spec out at 17"x8" with 5.72" BS and 30mm offset.

You may need to roll the fendser which will also pull it out a little. This is a proven combination. With the '94-'95 spindle you shouldn't even need to roll the fender.


--Vince
I believe the issue, then, might be more related to the ride height in the front. I have been trying to find time to install springs in the front, but work has got me pretty busy. The springs that came with the car have been cut to the point the tires were tucked in about 1/8 inch in the front and I'm pretty sure they are still the 4 cylinder kind. It became worse when the SN95 control arms dropped the front even more. I got some stock, unmolested V8 springs that I'll install to bring the front back up. Later come the C/O

Since this is a D/D, will I be able to re-use the fender liners if I pull the fenders? I don't want water to get to where it isn't supposed to get.
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post #10 of 17 Old 06-25-2009, 09:26 AM
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'89 K member here, running stock fox CA's and 94/95 spindles. Got the 10th anniversary 17x9's with 275/40/17 tires all the way around.

They fit inside my front fenders with no modifications, although I'm thinking about pulling the fender liners as the tires will contact on big bumps. I do get control arm interference at full-lock turns, though.


1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #11 of 17 Old 06-25-2009, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stang Man View Post
'89 K member here, running stock fox CA's and 94/95 spindles. Got the 10th anniversary 17x9's with 275/40/17 tires all the way around.

They fit inside my front fenders with no modifications, although I'm thinking about pulling the fender liners as the tires will contact on big bumps. I do get control arm interference at full-lock turns, though.
You do have a GT, though... so, original V8 K with stock C.A. should work just fine with 94-95 spindles. I got longer control arms with 96+ spindles... even with the 4 cylinder K, it's still a lot different. If my math was correct... and IIRC... the Ford 17x9's end up with the same backspacing as a 17x8, but the offset changes a bit (I can't find the sheet with all my scribbles lol) so there would be no way I can fit 17x9's in the front right now
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post #12 of 17 Old 06-25-2009, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Victor50 View Post
You do have a GT, though... so, original V8 K with stock C.A. should work just fine with 94-95 spindles. I got longer control arms with 96+ spindles... even with the 4 cylinder K, it's still a lot different. If my math was correct... and IIRC... the Ford 17x9's end up with the same backspacing as a 17x8, but the offset changes a bit (I can't find the sheet with all my scribbles lol) so there would be no way I can fit 17x9's in the front right now
I think the BS on the 17x9 Cobra wheels was 6.12"

I've rolled my rear fenders enough, I could probably stand to space them out ~1/4" (stock rear track width)

1989 GT- Prowler Orange Pearl
Engine:
331, AFR 185, FTI cam, 90mm LMAF/30 lb, TFS-R intake, BBK LT's, X-pipe, Spintech mufflers
Suspension:MM: TA, PHB, Rear LCA's, C/C Plates, H&R Race Springs, Bilstein HD's, SFC's, Moser 28 splines, 3.73's, Cobra brakes,10th Anniv. Cobra wheels
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post #13 of 17 Old 06-25-2009, 02:09 PM
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The 10th Anniv. Cobra Wheels (A179) are 6.12" BS.

The common '95 Cobra R's (R58) are 5.98" BS.

The rare '95 Cobra R's for the Fox with SN95 axles (M179) are 6.42" BS.

--Vince

+ JalapeƱo Red 1985 Mustang GT, 347 in^3, Canfield heads, 650DP, X-Celerator, & 1-3/4" LT's
+ Tremec 3550, D&D shifter, 3.73:1 gears, & TrueTrac differential
+ EVM watts & 3-link, Homemade LCA's, & Koni SA's
+ '00 Cobra R Brembos in front and SN95 Cobra rear brakes, R58 rims, & 275/40R17 Falkens
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post #14 of 17 Old 06-25-2009, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 85GTVince View Post
The 10th Anniv. Cobra Wheels (A179) are 6.12" BS.

The common '95 Cobra R's (R58) are 5.98" BS.

The rare '95 Cobra R's for the Fox with SN95 axles (M179) are 6.42" BS.

--Vince
Yeah, I saw where I messed up with my math. Comparing the 17x8 and 17x9 wheels, I was trying to see if the extra 1" in width was all added to the inside or outside, or .5" to each side. I used the given backspace and offset to try to figure it out myself. I ASSumed it was .5" to the inside and .5" to the outside, but I got confused and I used .25" for my calculations which is where I got my theory: 5.72" + .25" = 5.97" Then I theorized the .01" difference was some kind of typo by whoever wrote 5.98" on the website I went to to get my numbers.

^^That probably did not make any sense, did it? lol

Did you mean to say "The rare '93 Cobra R's for the Fox with SN95 axles (M179) are 6.42" BS." ????

Last edited by Victor50; 06-25-2009 at 04:46 PM.
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post #15 of 17 Old 06-25-2009, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85GTVince:
The 10th Anniv. Cobra Wheels (A179) are 6.12" BS.
The common '95 Cobra R's (R58) are 5.98" BS.
The rare '95 Cobra R's for the Fox with SN95 axles (M179) are 6.42" BS.
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Did you mean to say "The rare '93 Cobra R's for the Fox with SN95 axles (M179) are 6.42" BS." ????
No. I meant the rare '95 Cobra R 17x9 wheels with 36mm offset and 6.42" backspace. They are part number M-1007-M179. They have been discontinued for a few years. They are just like the M-1007-R58 wheels except they have 1/2" more BS to work on a Fox with the SN95 axles which are 3/4" longer than Fox axles. Almost all of the ones you see (Ford and aftermarket) are the 5.98" BS.

The '93 Cobra R used 17x8 wheels. They are the same spec as all of the other 17x8 Ford wheels. In fact, they were the optional 17" Tri-Bar wheel that came out in '94 except they were powdercoated black with a polished lip.

--Vince

+ JalapeƱo Red 1985 Mustang GT, 347 in^3, Canfield heads, 650DP, X-Celerator, & 1-3/4" LT's
+ Tremec 3550, D&D shifter, 3.73:1 gears, & TrueTrac differential
+ EVM watts & 3-link, Homemade LCA's, & Koni SA's
+ '00 Cobra R Brembos in front and SN95 Cobra rear brakes, R58 rims, & 275/40R17 Falkens
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post #16 of 17 Old 06-28-2009, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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I understand now. I was completely unaware such a wheel was ever made.

On a side note, I installed the stock V8 springs a few days ago and I got good clearance now with the top of the feder... thanks to a reverse rake lol. I gotta do something about that
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post #17 of 17 Old 06-29-2009, 12:57 AM
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I'm glad that you got it figured out.

--Vince

+ JalapeƱo Red 1985 Mustang GT, 347 in^3, Canfield heads, 650DP, X-Celerator, & 1-3/4" LT's
+ Tremec 3550, D&D shifter, 3.73:1 gears, & TrueTrac differential
+ EVM watts & 3-link, Homemade LCA's, & Koni SA's
+ '00 Cobra R Brembos in front and SN95 Cobra rear brakes, R58 rims, & 275/40R17 Falkens
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