Griggs suspension - Sway bar question - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 06-09-2009, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Griggs suspension - Sway bar question

So I've searched around on the forum and there is a lot of good info on this but I didn't want to resurrect a thread from years passed.

I have a '96 Cobra with a full Griggs (Non SLA) GR40 suspension on it.
It is a star on the road course, but I'm not getting enough bite in the front. I've messed with tire pressures and shock settings but unless I'm trailing throttle, the nose wants to push. It has been said that a smaller front sway bar would help but my car seems to lean significantly in the harder turns. (My tire ripped the RF fender liner out last week).



So I'm wondering if adding a stiffer (adjustable) rear bar will improve these issues.

The details are as follows:

Front
350# c/o
Koni single adjustable shocks
2.5* - camber, 7* caster.


Rear
200# c/o
Koni single adjustable shocks
T/A, PHB,

Falken Azenis RT-615 275/35-18 all around
Stock Cobra sway bars.

I will have Dunlop Z1 Star Specs installed in the coming weeks.

I have exchanged a couple of emails with Bruce Griggs, but he has stopped responding for some reason.

Thanks in advance,
James


[B]'96 Griggs GR40 Cobra

2011 GT500 SVTPP

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post #2 of 31 Old 06-09-2009, 06:15 PM
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Just from immediate observation, those rear spring rates seem about 100lb's too soft.

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post #3 of 31 Old 06-09-2009, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Did a boo boo, fronts are 350#.

The car was built at Griggs' facility in Cali, and John Griggs' name is on most of the invoices. I think it would be odd for the wrong rear springs to be installed. The shocks are adjusted most of the way soft and it still rides very firmly.

I'm not opposed to changing springs out and such, but I would like to prevent the ride from deteriorating further if possible.

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post #4 of 31 Old 06-09-2009, 06:30 PM
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Well, they're certainly smarter than me, but from most setups "i've seen/searched" the rear rate is higher(even with a 350 front spring).
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post #5 of 31 Old 06-09-2009, 06:44 PM
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From a selfish perspective would you mind sharing your current shock settings? I have Koni Single Adjustables with 325/250 Coil Overs.

To your point, is -2.5 camber enough? Its hard to tell but from that picture the car seems to be rolling over a good bit which may not be too bad, but with only -2.5 camber, and that much roll, would you be rolling over into positive camber on the outside tire? Do you have pretty good initial turn in but then start to really push as you get deeper into the turn and the car rolls over?

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post #6 of 31 Old 06-09-2009, 06:49 PM
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Ignoring springs, I can say that i've been very pleased with my MM adj. bar. It's more effective than I originally thought. I think my car stays fairly flat in the turns and is well balanced front to rear and safe to drive on the edge.

EDIT: FWIW, I'm running 375 in the front and 300 in the rear.

Last edited by 2k2GT; 06-09-2009 at 07:11 PM.
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post #7 of 31 Old 06-09-2009, 06:53 PM
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Well, if you don't want to go softer in the front, you can go stiffer in the back to balance the car. More spring seems to be in order, but you can also consider more rear sway bar.

350# in the fron is still a bit soft, but it IS a street car. My AI car runs 425# coilovers up front and 575# conventional springs in the rear. THAT's a stiff setup!

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post #8 of 31 Old 06-09-2009, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLITT1992 View Post
From a selfish perspective would you mind sharing your current shock settings? I have Koni Single Adjustables with 325/250 Coil Overs.

To your point, is -2.5 camber enough? Its hard to tell but from that picture the car seems to be rolling over a good bit which may not be too bad, but with only -2.5 camber, and that much roll, would you be rolling over into positive camber on the outside tire? Do you have pretty good initial turn in but then start to really push as you get deeper into the turn and the car rolls over?
The rears are the PITA to adjust ones. One click from the softest setting.

The fronts are 1 full turn from full soft.

The car is crisp all around but as you near the limit, you feel it begin to wash out in front. By lifting off the throttle the nose will begin to bite nicely and the rear will step out slightly and allow the car to rotate. This forces me to run deeper into the corner on the brakes and apply throttle later as I'm exiting.


When you zoom in to the pic, you can see the inside front wheel is barely touching the ground.

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post #9 of 31 Old 06-10-2009, 11:20 AM
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The car is undersprung, especially in the rear. I used to run 325lb/in. fronts and 250lb/in. rears with stock 1990 swaybars and the rearend would not rotate, it understeered everywhere. Now I have 450lb/in fronts and 350lb/in rears with a 1 1/8 MM front bar and stock rear bar. The balance is much more neutral but I still get understeer at corner exit. I believe some small tweaks will solve the problem. With my soft set up the understeer was so bad that I don't think bars would have solved the problem and MM agreed. The point is you are going to have to up the wheel rate quite a bit to fix your problem. In my experience I don't think it's possible to make these cars perform the way you want them to at the limit on the track while still being comfy on the street. You have to decide if you want to be comfortable on the street or have a car that does what you want it to do on the track.

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post #10 of 31 Old 06-10-2009, 11:32 AM
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this goes along with my experiance nicely. With a griggs front end and a custom TA/PHB setup, the car still pushed. Not a ton, but enough. Moving from 350# conventional springs to 575# conventional springs balanced the car pretty nicely. It still will plow through T10 at TWS, but I don't know of a fca4r that doesn't. I'll happily put up with that, though, since the car it pretty neutral elsewhere.


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post #11 of 31 Old 06-10-2009, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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So now am I looking at changing springs at all 4 corners to keep the rear from riding differently from the front? Right now the front feels a lot more compliant over bumps and such.

I don't know what spring rate the Koni's are rated to handle either.

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post #12 of 31 Old 06-10-2009, 03:02 PM
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I think last I researched, the Koni yellows/sports were good to into the mid 500's.
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post #13 of 31 Old 06-10-2009, 03:12 PM
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I dunno. MM says 325 max on single adjustables.

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post #14 of 31 Old 06-10-2009, 03:22 PM
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Oh.....c'mon! 325 for an SA Koni? mid 400's easy.
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post #15 of 31 Old 06-10-2009, 03:26 PM
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I'm just sayin'. That's what MM says. Then again adjustables suck.

BTW, anyone notice MM no longer carries koni single adjustables on their website? Its giving me an inferiority complex.

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post #16 of 31 Old 06-10-2009, 03:31 PM
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I see that on their site, but I wanna say financial issues come in to play there. I know plenty of people running Koni SA's with 400+ spring rate.

Mr. MFE be one of'em. He's kinda a smart feller, but he may not be a "true racer", though.
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post #17 of 31 Old 06-10-2009, 03:34 PM
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Also, notice the MM site has 250-325 for front coilover with koni sa and not available listed under rear coilover.

Also notice the max standard spring listed is HR race and not super race.

Then notice the specs for D-spec's. Kind of odd.

On a side note, anyone want to come figure out how to set my koni sports for me? Geeesh....

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post #18 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 06:18 PM
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I would go with stiffer springs all the way around before buying more expensive adjustable sway bars.

Also, there may be an issue with the MM swaybar fitting with Griggs TA/PHB, don't know, just saying they might interfere with each other.

You can move the 350# to the rear and run 450# in the front. It will be stiffer but you'll only have to buy one set of springs

FWIW, I ran 500# front and 350# rear for a while before getting the SLA upgrade. I didn't run a front sway bar with this combo. It was very tolerable in my opinion and no one htat rode in the car with me ever complained about how rough the ride was. I have a big KB blower on top of the engine up front so that's why the 500# front springs. It WAS too much though and I just pulled the swaybar to soften it back up some. I know the SLA was coming for Christmas so I wasn't wasting any more money on springs at the time.

I currently run 300# rear and 850# front with the SLA. I was told by Griggs the 850# fronts equal about 450# rate with a standard strut coilover. I also have their medium front bar one the middle setting.

My car will still push at the limit, but it takes a little more "pushing" before it starts to push now...lol

I got their WC LCA's on the way for the rear. I'll lose the rear sway bar with them so I'll probably up the rear springs back to 350# to make up for the swaybar being removed, plus a little to help balance the car a some more. And eventually I'll put the front bar on the softest setting. I have to make some of the spacers on the front bar smaller to get rid of some clearance issues.

That help any or did I just ramble about myself the whole time???
road likes this.

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post #19 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 06:23 PM
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Not much rambling, but you're no "true racer".
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post #20 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 06:34 PM
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I don't get it? What makes a true racer? Racing in the rain? If that's it, NOPE, I'm not a true racer.

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post #21 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
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That help any or did I just ramble about myself the whole time???
Its all about you, isn't it?

Seriously, what front sway do you have that you can put it on the softest setting or did you mean the softest bar available?

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post #22 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:06 PM
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The Griggs bar that is built from gold plated titanium and filled with helium.
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post #23 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:11 PM
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hmmm....... never heard of it. Must be way out of my price range. Also known as over $100.

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post #24 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
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Its all about you, isn't it?

Seriously, what front sway do you have that you can put it on the softest setting or did you mean the softest bar available?
This one....

Quote:
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The Griggs bar that is built from gold plated titanium and filled with helium.
Griggs makes front sway bars for their kits. What one are you running now? They have three, soft, medium, stiff. And each one has three adjustment points where it mounts to the Aarm for....you guessed it, soft, medium, and stiff

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post #25 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:16 PM
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BTW, it is stupid frigging expensive. I kicked myself in the ass three times after I bought it. I kick myself everytime I get off the phone with them it seems.

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post #26 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:17 PM
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Hey, you live down in my family's area, they are in Gulfport. Do you autoX down there?

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post #27 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:18 PM
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Post whore'n

http://www.griggsracing.com/index.ph...4348_2005_3075

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post #28 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:39 PM
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Hey, you live down in my family's area, they are in Gulfport. Do you autoX down there?
Yup, but the nearest locations are in Metairie and Grand Bay. About 80 and 40 miles from Gulfport, respectively.

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post #29 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:40 PM
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Fie hundo? Good Lawd!

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post #30 of 31 Old 06-11-2009, 07:45 PM
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Fie hundo? Good Lawd!
That's what I said with a few other explicatives thrown in there. I tried to run without one but it just wouldn't work. I had to get it

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post #31 of 31 Old 06-12-2009, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, now I've seen that Griggs front bar, and that is pretty steep for my blood, and I have also seen a similar bar for the rears of the S197s. I haven't seen one for the SN95s though.

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