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post #1 of 51 Old 05-23-2009, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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5 link or T/A????

I am on a quest to get rid of the binding rear suspension that I have on my R.i do race the car HIGH speed[open road events] and am looking to go 200+ in it.But at the current speeds i am running [150+] I have a very uneasy oversteer situation.Am looking at the the steed 5 link for the simple fact that It is closer to a bolt on system.and I don't loose ground clearance or have to do any exhaust work[custom exhaust].but that is not to say that I am not willing to go with the T/A system.i can fab what ever I need to make it more bolt on friendly.and since this is a true R would not care to do alot of welding to the frame.
What I need is un bias experiences with both and why.
My current front set up is k member,arms,coilovers motor moved back and down.land the rear is weight jackers and a new spring perch for 5 inch springs.Thanks Stan

forgot to add the exhaust exits the side of the car before the rear wheels.


Last edited by Ruslow; 05-23-2009 at 11:21 AM.
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post #2 of 51 Old 05-23-2009, 11:28 AM
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post #3 of 51 Old 05-23-2009, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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I did the search and came up with the same stuff.and read most of it.As well as links to CC.But would like real world experience between the 2 in a short and PRECISE answer. I do not have the time to read ever post made about the 'KEY' words listed anywhere in a thread or post.Stan
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post #4 of 51 Old 05-23-2009, 03:28 PM
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Where does every one get the hole lost ground clearance from a TA? I always thought that to be a EVM marketing ploy.
post #5 of 51 Old 05-23-2009, 04:49 PM
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Probably because it hangs down a little further than the bottom of the diff housing. But anybody who runs into a ground clearance issue there and not the exhaust first is a hero in my book.
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post #6 of 51 Old 05-23-2009, 05:53 PM
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Probably because it hangs down a little further than the bottom of the diff housing. But anybody who runs into a ground clearance issue there and not the exhaust first is a hero in my book.
Ain't that the truth.
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post #7 of 51 Old 05-23-2009, 06:01 PM
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FWIW, John Buscema (sp?) used an original 5link on his Vorteched 200+mph Cobra. If you are not familiar with that car I would definitely research it. I am pretty sure Sean Hyland had a lot to do with the motor build if that helps your searches. There was another Vorteched Mystic Cobra open road car that I believe was built by Brads Custom Auto. I am wanting to say that was a Griggs car.

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this is a true R would not care to do alot of welding to the frame.
I don't know anything about you or your car so I may be way off base, but a 200mph anything is damn race car. Meaning, gutted interior, a FULL cage welded at 8-12 body points (not anything Autopower), window nets, one piece race seats and harnesses, fire systems (yes plural) etc.

A race car has only two questions about it:
1. What can I do to help me survive a worst car scenario crash
2. Given (1), how can I make it as fast a possible.

John Flesher
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post #8 of 51 Old 05-23-2009, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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i know of Johns car and have seen it run[I have been doing this for 11 years] His was a 200mph car once.and could not dup it any more.As for full blown race car yes but can be done with a full interior.Weight has little to do with top end just how long it takes to get there.I know of several cars that have broke the 'duece' and are street driven in CA no less!I have the fab skills to make my own cage[have built several].and was running a truck that was competitive in the 150 class with a top end of 174 and it had full interior with a/c still.So I know it can be done.
As for exhaust I guess I am your hero!It is a full out race system,3.5 oval tube running to boom tubes and all hooked up to a set of hooker super comps that I reworked for ground clearance and to exit or atleast allow the exhaust to run inbetween the 'humps' in the crossmember.the problems that I have read about with T/A set up is the mounting points toward the front.All I read about is how you need to mod the h pipe of x pipe near the trans member.It took me to long to fab the system and have it coated just to be reworking on a whim that it is better than the 5 link.Which would not require the rework of the exhaust.Stan
Now how about some helpfull info from someone who has run both?
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post #9 of 51 Old 05-23-2009, 10:11 PM
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Now how about some helpfull info from someone who has run both?
There may be...may be...3 people on this site who have run both, so your options are to spend time waiting for them to see this and respond, or spend time digging through what they've already written. Just sayin'.
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post #10 of 51 Old 05-24-2009, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
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I did the search and came up with the same stuff.and read most of it.As well as links to CC. I do not have the time to read ever post made about the 'KEY' words listed anywhere in a thread or post.Stan
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post #11 of 51 Old 05-24-2009, 03:30 PM
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TA

I have run both, I had the car on the road with the original 5 link and everything Steeda recommends with it for about 6 months before I pulled it back in and really tore it down and made it into large project. I am building a full GR40 notchback now after driving a few GR cars. Let me say it was a big difference from Steeda's stuff. The major differences were a huge reduction in brake dive, better traction especially after rippin 2nd, and way flatter handling but that probably comes from the Koni coilovers.

My car is not done yet, but my buddy has the GR set up in his 88 GT convertible and that's mainly what I'm comparing my old 5 link- Steeda suspension to. My buddy has the base line GR kit ( steet shocks, springs etc)
Mine is a bit more over kill than that......

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post #12 of 51 Old 05-24-2009, 05:09 PM
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I just want to make sure I read this right. You want a predominantly bolt in suspension, you don't want to modify your existing custom exhaust (very nice by the way), and you want to go 200+ mph without a cage? Hope you have good life insurance and an umbrella policy.

Seriously, I would think that my life and those other guys out on the track would come first over some sheet metal. Buy another car and go 200+ the safe way so the R does not end up KO'd or worse yet you get hurt. Makes no sense to me...

I have not seen any fast cars (150+ mph) running Steeda gear but mostly Griggs and MM. Maybe that is just the region I live in so not too sure there. Good luck and stay safe.

Darren

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post #13 of 51 Old 05-24-2009, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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I already have the required safety gear for myself as well as the car.I have little problem doing the cage but also realize that in years to come that is to be expected.Look at the 65 R cars.many had cages and that did not affect the price 30 years later.but by modding to the point that I am reworking the suspension by welding to things it will.IF I have to I can rework the exhaust if the T/A system is that much better.I can fab up crossmembers to work with a T/A system that bolt in but really do not have time to that amount of work.I still have to make a living.Stan
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post #14 of 51 Old 05-26-2009, 10:49 AM
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post #15 of 51 Old 05-28-2009, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Not a 93 it is a 95 R. I want the suspension and aero work done first then I can concentrate on the engine and trans.I already have coolers on the trans and diffs and am installing a bigger cooler on the engine.and yes mainly bolt on stuff.I know it can be done.since I have a fab shop and the ability to make anything I need [tool and die shop also]I can make the unit from scratch if I care to but is more cost and time effictive to buy and mod to my needs.STan
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post #16 of 51 Old 05-28-2009, 08:31 PM
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I've run both (and I sell both MM and Steeda parts). I have to vote 5 link. It's more adjustable, and has less unsprung weight no TA hanging off the axle. You can monkey with your instant center, your anti-squat, it's lighter and less prone to brake hop.

I'm very familiar with TA's, I have an F-body too, and they are TA cars aside from having run TA equipped Mustangs.

Now I have no loyalty to either Maximum or Steeda (and not Griggs either). I sell the first two when the parts either have suit the need... Much like what folks like for food, or women, or cars, tastes will vary. The above reasons are my reasons.

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post #17 of 51 Old 06-02-2009, 07:32 AM
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Comparing a MM torque arm setup to the Griggs setup is not what I would call apples to apples. The MM is geared more towards the average street car while the Griggs is geared more towards a race car. You can tell this in the weight, design, and installation. I have installed both and what I see win at the race track is usually a Griggs car. I am not speaking from left field either as I have a full MM 93 Coupe and a full Griggs 83 T-Bird. I have not seen a car high centered on a torque arm but there is always a first time and I think I could see where that could happen but I just don't think its gonna be because the pavement jumped up and grabbed the car.

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post #18 of 51 Old 06-03-2009, 07:43 PM
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You do not see a lot of Steeda race cars. However, when you do they are usually running at the front.

NASA AI first and second place last season were both Steeda cars.

The 5 link is a pretty impressive piece.
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post #19 of 51 Old 06-04-2009, 02:19 AM
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The selling point for me is the way the TA limits brake dive, or actually rear end lift under hard braking. The 5 link couldn't match this making the car more upset when pushed hard.

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post #20 of 51 Old 06-04-2009, 05:45 AM
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"I'm not sure how the toque arm would allow wheel hop when the 5 link wouldn't. All of the big race teams in AIX use a torque arm. Just like all the big teams replace their stock front strut design for an un-equal length a-arm design. I would suspect the steeda piece is good. But I see very little Steeda stuff in the extreme cars. The off the shelf stuff for everyday people just won't cutt it. If you already have your subframe connectors and all that stuff. Get the Torque arm. It reduces body dive under breaking, gives you a true 3 link design with the addition of a panhard bar or watts link, and its what all the pro's use. If you haven't gotten the pre-requisits. New lower control arms, subframe connectors, panhard bar\watts-link. Get those and try them out. You will see a huge difference, then consider the 5 link or torque arm. Most people don't bother with them unless they are going really extreme, and those people all seem to use a torque arm."

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post #21 of 51 Old 06-04-2009, 08:29 PM
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The selling point for me is the way the TA limits brake dive, or actually rear end lift under hard braking. The 5 link couldn't match this making the car more upset when pushed hard.
Huh?

No dog in the fight, but the 5 link is fine under braking when properly set up. Just like the TA works fine under braking when properly set up. Screw the setup and you'll get braking problems with any rear suspension.

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post #22 of 51 Old 06-05-2009, 01:59 AM
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Huh?

No dog in the fight, but the 5 link is fine under braking when properly set up. Just like the TA works fine under braking when properly set up. Screw the setup and you'll get braking problems with any rear suspension.

DaveW
I did not say there were braking problems, just more rear lift under hard braking with the 5 link vs the TA, kinda similar to the stock 4 link. Example would be hard braking into a tight turn-- the TA car could take it smoother.

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post #23 of 51 Old 06-13-2009, 08:37 PM
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I've run both, and prefer the 5-link for my use- it hooked better from a dead stop. I doubt that's a factor in your decision though. Other that that they drive pretty similar when properly set up. I'd be a little concerned about the reduced ground clearance with the torque arm when you accidentally run out of pavement.

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post #24 of 51 Old 06-14-2009, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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I pretty much have decided to run the 5 link.Main reasons are the dive and squat can be infinately adjusted.I plan on running a watts linkage system too.the one I am looking at is the FAYS2.
i ran the May silverstate and ran a 153 average.After I get the steeda one I plan on doing as close to 160average as possible.This car is still streetable even with the exhaust.Keep in mind that the turns that I have to do are all at high triple digit speeds so brake dive is a non issue since all I need to do is let up on the throttole.
If all goes fine at the sept event start looking for me in the top class by the end of next year.That is if i can still fund this out of my back pocket!Stan

PS anyone going to the Shelby meet in tulsa next week?I will be at hallett weds and thrus and would like to meet some of you.

Last edited by Ruslow; 06-14-2009 at 11:58 AM.
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post #25 of 51 Old 06-15-2009, 04:26 PM
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I was under the impression you couldn't use the FAYS2 with the Steeda 5-link system (actually, you'd get rid of the Steeda panhard bar with the Watts link)

Since both of the bolt onto the axle tubes they'd interfere with each other..

If you're going to use the Steeda system you'd have to stick with a panhard bar as far as I know

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post #26 of 51 Old 06-19-2009, 03:27 PM
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I will be at Hallett from the 25th thru the 28th. Will be helping a buddy with his car (Silver 1995 AI car, #23) but mostly we are going up there just to hang out and enjoy all the Shelby's.

Sounds like you have a good plan on the car so keep us informed on how it performs.

Darren

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post #27 of 51 Old 06-21-2009, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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I to plan on being at Hallett have not decided on whether I will do the Late model event since I was told that my truck made the drivers 'uneasy and out of their comfort zone"Stan

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post #28 of 51 Old 02-08-2010, 05:43 PM
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I did not say there were braking problems, just more rear lift under hard braking with the 5 link vs the TA, kinda similar to the stock 4 link.
I used to have pictures from my car braking for the hairpin at Sebring with the stock-geometry rear suspension one year and then with the 5-Link the next year. The difference in rear ride height was dramatic.

With the stock suspension the back was lifted to the full extension of the suspension.

With the 5-link the car was MUCH more level.

Visually it looked like the back bumper was about 6 inches higher with the stock suspension than with the 5-link. I don't know if that is actually possible, considering the length of the rear suspension travel. But between the reduced nose dive and the reduced rear lift, the 5 link was a world better. To say that its performance, when properly set up, was "kinda similar" to the stock 4-link is not accurate.
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post #29 of 51 Old 02-08-2010, 05:58 PM
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Just to add a little tidbit of information, that is the same car and the same 5-link suspension in my car in the drag-strip picture in my signature. Different springs, but otherwise the same suspension.
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post #30 of 51 Old 02-08-2010, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Realspeed Dan View Post
I used to have pictures from my car braking for the hairpin at Sebring with the stock-geometry rear suspension one year and then with the 5-Link the next year. The difference in rear ride height was dramatic.

With the stock suspension the back was lifted to the full extension of the suspension.

With the 5-link the car was MUCH more level.

Visually it looked like the back bumper was about 6 inches higher with the stock suspension than with the 5-link. I don't know if that is actually possible, considering the length of the rear suspension travel. But between the reduced nose dive and the reduced rear lift, the 5 link was a world better. To say that its performance, when properly set up, was "kinda similar" to the stock 4-link is not accurate.
Stock 4 link with brand new Upper control arms and MM std lower control arms

After T/A & PHB but still with the same front springs. I changed out the rears for proper TA rear springs.


Both pictures are of the car under braking. There's still a bit of rear lift but it's no where near as extreme as the previous one.
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post #31 of 51 Old 02-09-2010, 06:49 AM
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Sorry to hijack. Realspeed can i get more details what you used to stick your 5-link?

What shocks/struts/springs/swaybars etc were you using? I got my 5 link and my car will have 700+rwhp to stick at the track on high boost come spring!

Boss block 308, stage 3 canfields, spyder intake, 90mm tb, 96lb msds, sds inj, hanlon tko, tti race kit t-76 q-trim, 00r wheels+brakes, steeda 5-link. Aiming for 700rwhp.
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post #32 of 51 Old 02-09-2010, 09:42 AM
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Sorry to hijack. Realspeed can i get more details what you used to stick your 5-link?

What shocks/struts/springs/swaybars etc were you using? I got my 5 link and my car will have 700+rwhp to stick at the track on high boost come spring!
5-link with the arms in the upper position
Steeda drag springs
Tokico adjustable drag struts, Illumina rear shocks
Steeda aluminum lower rear control arms.
Mickey Thompson 26 x 10.5 slicks
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post #33 of 51 Old 02-09-2010, 10:16 AM
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I have run both the 5-link and the Griggs TA/PH. I have to say that I like the 5-link better if you have to keep the stock K-member. I have one regional championship under my belt and two runner ups, the only reason I didn't win two more championships is because my job doesn't give me enough time off to be able to accrue enough points. That being said, when I come out onto the track in my region I win. To get to second place in the points with fewer races than everyone else is saying something.

The 5-link is lighter and I did have instances where my street TA that I had (I also had one on the racecar) would hit speed bumps quite frequently.

Now, if you are allowed to change your K-member then a MM or Griggs setup might be better. Then you could have a complete system that was designed to work together.

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post #34 of 51 Old 02-10-2010, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Realspeed Dan View Post
Just to add a little tidbit of information, that is the same car and the same 5-link suspension in my car in the drag-strip picture in my signature. Different springs, but otherwise the same suspension.
You did Sebring with skinnies in front?
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post #35 of 51 Old 02-10-2010, 05:35 PM
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You did Sebring with skinnies in front?
Obviously not, nor did I do Sebring with 26 x 10.5 ET drag slicks. I was not intending to including tires in my description of the suspension. I meant it had the same 5-link suspension, the same steeda lower rear control arms, the same Tokico rear shocks, the same stock K-member without coilovers, the same caster camber plates, etc.
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