351w Dry Sump System - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 03-31-2009, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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351w Dry Sump System

In a nutshell. In a fox without a motorplate. Does anyone know of or have pics of a ford with a dry sump system that can be bolted to the block/heads more or less. The car, 93 fox hatch gutted. Plans include a high voltage alternator to run headlights, standalone, fuel pumps and turn signals. KRC power steering pump also, that's it. Mock junk block is in car and I am pretty sure that a dry sump pan will fit with 1" engine setback, I will have to ditch the offset rack and pinion bushings. As far as a crank pulley I will most likely use a standard non race size to drive the alternator. Anyone have pics or know of a particular brand that will work with urethane motor mounts?

I like the idea of a vacuum pump with the 11:1 427 nitrous motor or that is being built. I can deal with the added cludder of braided AN lines and the added BS associated with the dry sump kit. I figure that this engine build up is for me so why not try new things.

Any suggestions and or pictures of dry sump set-ups is much appreciated.


Last edited by Alexandros; 11-26-2009 at 06:42 PM.
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post #2 of 16 Old 04-01-2009, 12:03 AM
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check ebay for ernie elliot timing covers for small fords......they have a drysump mount built in and are usually magnesium.

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post #3 of 16 Old 04-01-2009, 07:53 PM
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Hey i have been looking into this a lot lately too and am working on a dry sump system. There isnt much out there though. The ernie elliot or yates style covers would be tough to use, I bought a yates belt drive set up and no way i can make it work with my set up, here is a link from a mag with some pics

http://www.mustangandfords.com/techa.../photo_10.html

I have a ton of links not sure how to post all of them easily if interested shot me a message and ill send them to you of other stuff i have found.

86 gt T-top, 438,Ysi with a t56
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post #4 of 16 Old 04-02-2009, 01:49 PM
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Call Jones Racing Products. They have pump mounts, pulleys, drive mandrels and good advice.



this isn't my car, but other than the fact that mine is a 3 stage pump, the setup is exactly the same as mine.

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post #5 of 16 Old 11-24-2009, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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ttt
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post #6 of 16 Old 11-25-2009, 10:39 AM
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Here are some of a friend's 351W



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post #7 of 16 Old 11-25-2009, 05:16 PM
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ive always wondered one thing about dry sump set ups, what if the belt comes off somehow?

id love to run a dry sump system on my 408 one day

94 SVT Cobra (rio red)- 408/T56 476rwhp 451rwtq

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post #8 of 16 Old 11-25-2009, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89cobranotch View Post
ive always wondered one thing about dry sump set ups, what if the belt comes off somehow?

id love to run a dry sump system on my 408 one day
No belt = No oil pressure. I have a BIG red light for low oil pressure. I'm thinking of plumbing an ignition interrupt switch for low oil pressure too.

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post #9 of 16 Old 11-26-2009, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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not a bad idea. Mr gasket sells one.

darius. it looks to me like he has a rear sump pan. That is exactly what I was thinking to do .
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post #10 of 16 Old 11-26-2009, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a79coupe View Post
No belt = No oil pressure. I have a BIG red light for low oil pressure. I'm thinking of plumbing an ignition interrupt switch for low oil pressure too.
right, thats what worries me about the system. i know its used often in race setups, its just something i've always thought about.


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post #11 of 16 Old 11-26-2009, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Like a 79coupe stated. An oil pressure safety switch prevents that very scenario. Once the oil pressure drops a certain amount the ignition system or fuel pump (engine) will shut off.

That all depends on what you want to run through that switch. You could have it cut off the ignition or fuel. You have to T it in between the oil pressure sensor and the block, from what I recall. Thanks for the reminder. I forgot I also need that too.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SU...8/?image=large

What I really want to do is push the engine back so that it passes the steering rack. That way I can utilize a uniform dry sump pan. That distance is about a foot. The cowl area has no wipers, so at this point it is gar-bage to me. VFN makes a pin on hood that reached to the windshield in a stock height as well as cowl.

I would like to make that work but the truth of the matter is that the exhaust tubes, #4 & #8 will cause the problems, well #8 more so then #4 because #4 is free and clear of any pedals. To get the accelerator pedal to clear would take some work. Cutting out everything from the top of the valve covers to the cowl is no problem, it is the area that the exhaust primary tube will protrude into. That is the accelerator pedal and brake area. That is where I gave up. A 50/50 dry weight ratio would be great, and this would help reach that goal too, but I have yet to drop the completed motor in. I might try this route, but doubt it. Not that I don not want to, but because it will require extensive trans tunnel, firewall and pedal relocation. As well as possible rear-word dash board front mounting point relocation.

Truth be told, I will give it a whirl when the motor is done, or when I can guesstimate the head/primary/valve cover area needed to be removed. The primary tubes will also play a part. At any rate keep the pics coming, thanks for the insight/pics darius.
Alex

O yeah, machinist wants to use a 4 vane pump. One for supply, two for the pan, and one for the heads. We have yet to figure out what size lines. Part of me wants to modify a dual sump wet pan, and the other side wants to measure out the car like I am supposed to and send those dimensions to aviaid for a custom dry sump pan. We shall see.....

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post #12 of 16 Old 11-27-2009, 10:43 AM
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Switch the ignition

Given the choice of interrupting spark or fuel if oil pressure drops, I would choose interrupting spark. The rationale is that an engine running lean has the potential to burn a piston where as an engine with fuel but no spark just stops running.

Part of it depends on your induction too. If you are running EFI, cutting the fuel pump will only allow the injectors to cycle a few times before your fuel pressure drops to the point where there is no fuel to the cylinders and the engine stops. If you are running a carb (as I do) cutting the fuel pump just stops the fuel from refilling the float bowls. The engine continues to run while the float bowls empty, the mixture gets leaner and leaner, and you are on low to no oil pressure thus wiping out the bearings.

If/when you install the pressure switch, remember to install a momentary override switch to start the engine. You may not need it when the oil is cold, but after the oil is hot and depending on your cutoff pressure, your starter may not be able to build enough RPM's to get enough oil pressure to enable the ignition/fuel pump.

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post #13 of 16 Old 05-14-2010, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thank god for flaming river sportsman racks. With their new sportaman rack it is possible to have a 4.25" or 4.5" dry sump pan and a power steering rack with a 4" stroke 351w motor in a standard height k member. Before you had to buy a 1.5" dropped rack to utilize a stock style rack and pinion with a 351w stroker motor. I almost thought of going to a manual rack, whew, glad they came to the rescue. What makes it work is the high pressure lines are no longer on the top of the rack like the factory ford rack, they are in front giving up an additional 1" or so which makes it all work great with some offset rack bushings for an additional 1/4"-1/2". I measured 4.25" from block to driver's side of the rack with the offset rack bushing facing upward, I would get another 1/4-1/2" by flipping them downward.

I think I am going Aviaid pan and pump, 7 stage, that is what my machinist reccommends. A dailey engineering unit would be nice, but they are really expensive, try $5000 for a system. That is what they use in NASCAR racing.
But I guess that is what a machined block of aluminum costs these days. If you look at their website their design is genious.
Yippie!!!!
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-21-2013, 10:39 AM
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Did you ever finish the install on the Flaming River Sportman rack? Photos?
I just ran into the 427W Moroso oilpan issue myself:



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post #15 of 16 Old 08-21-2013, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Not yet. I used the Canton dry sump aluminum pan which is flat. It should fit, either that or a manual rack. What pan are you using? It looks sumped in the front. You might have to use the prothane factory height motor mounts and offset rack bushing to get it to fit. It looks like you are using either a drop mount or an energy suspension mount which is the same as a vert mount which lowers the engine 3/4".

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post #16 of 16 Old 08-21-2013, 07:03 PM
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Here are some options. Not sure if it applies to your specific car though

Ford 4.6L Dry Sump Kit
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