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post #1 of 14 Old 03-07-2009, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Opinions on 4-link Adjustable UCA Upgrade:

Opinions on 4-link Adjustable UCA Upgrade:

I'm thinking about installing this 4-link adjustable UCA upgrade. But at the same time, I'm a 'wanna-be' OT'er. I worried this might introduce axel bind (or some other ill-effect). Are there any opinions out there? Also, would ride quality be adversely affected?

http://prosuspension.4t.com/


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post #2 of 14 Old 03-07-2009, 01:20 PM
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Most people are going to tell you that if you are serious about handling, you are going to need to get rid of the angled uppers all together. This looks like a drag racing oriented piece. I think Baseline makes something similar as well.


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post #3 of 14 Old 03-07-2009, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksnake305 View Post
Opinions on 4-link Adjustable UCA Upgrade:
I'm thinking about installing this 4-link adjustable UCA upgrade. But at the same time, I'm a 'wanna-be' OT'er. I worried this might introduce axel bind (or some other ill-effect). Are there any opinions out there? Also, would ride quality be adversely affected?
This or any other UCA is not going to get rid of "axel bind". This "binding" if you will is what allows these cars not to run a track-bar/Panhard rod. Our Mustang suspension doesn't have the nickname "quadra-bind" by accident.
  • yes this will work to some degree
  • yes it will take some of the stiffness out of your suspension. The heims allow more articulation
  • yes it will make your ride a bit more "jaring" over sharp pot-holes. Heims don't absorb any shock.
However, as already noted, you will have to do something more elaborate if you want your suspension to be without bind completely. You'll need to go with a T/A, 3-link or a 4-link that has bars running nearly straight for-and-aft. All of these will then need a Track bar, Watts Linkage or other "lateral locating devise to keep the axle under your car...

More homework for you

Have fun

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post #4 of 14 Old 03-07-2009, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DV19 View Post
This or any other UCA is not going to get rid of "axel bind". This "binding" if you will is what allows these cars not to run a track-bar/Panhard rod. Our Mustang suspension doesn't have the nickname "quadra-bind" by accident.
  • yes this will work to some degree
  • yes it will take some of the stiffness out of your suspension. The heims allow more articulation
  • yes it will make your ride a bit more "jaring" over sharp pot-holes. Heims don't absorb any shock.
However, as already noted, you will have to do something more elaborate if you want your suspension to be without bind completely. You'll need to go with a T/A, 3-link or a 4-link that has bars running nearly straight for-and-aft. All of these will then need a Track bar, Watts Linkage or other "lateral locating devise to keep the axle under your car...

More homework for you

Have fun
Good info DV! And so if I understand you correctly, these UCA's will not introduce MORE bind. (which was my main concern). But they may infact help reduce the bind just a bit...(even though its not optimal) Correct?

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post #5 of 14 Old 03-07-2009, 10:36 PM
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Don't count on it. They don't allow for the arms to change length at all, which is something they need to do if they're not going to impart some wierd axle movement IMHO.

Read this thread, and bear in mind that the talk of sphericals on both ends of the uppers AND lowers doesn't mean the ill effects are eliminated because yours are only in the uppers.

https://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=396652

Last edited by MFE; 03-07-2009 at 10:39 PM.
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post #6 of 14 Old 03-08-2009, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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Don't count on it. They don't allow for the arms to change length at all, which is something they need to do if they're not going to impart some wierd axle movement IMHO.

Read this thread, and bear in mind that the talk of sphericals on both ends of the uppers AND lowers doesn't mean the ill effects are eliminated because yours are only in the uppers.

https://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=396652

I have non-adjustable Pro-3i LCA's. I added the 3 piece spherical bushings at all four corners...

All I really wanted from this UCA was an increase in drag-traction (without adversely affecting the twisties). I was waiting for you to chime in. I will look at the thread, but sofar things have been a bit criptic for an amateur like me...

thanks and keep the comments coming...

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post #7 of 14 Old 03-08-2009, 12:51 PM
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It has been a long time since I did a detailed study of the stock 4-link (AKA: quadra-bind) kinematics, but this is what I remember...

As the quadra-bind articulates the length of the upper arms needs to change. Since the arms themselves cannot change length, the "effective length" changes by having the soft rubber bushings deflect. When you switch to heim joints the bushings can no longer deflect and you actually increase the bind.

The reason that heim joints work in UCA's for drag race applications is because the UCA length does not need to change if the rear end stays parallel to the ground and body. When a drag car launches both sides of the rear end move together. In this application the heim joints actually help because they stop the rear end from deflecting and they transfer all of the energy to the body.

The problem is that in a road race or auto-cross situation the rear end does not stay parallel to the ground and body. As the car leans going around a corner one end moves up and the other moves down. This is when the "effective length" of the UCA's needs to change. Since the length is fixed you get "snap oversteer" or loss of traction.

The same general reason is why MM tells you that you need stock UCA's with rubber bushings if you plan to run their Panhard Bar with a quadra-bind set-up.

In short, those arms will work well for drag racing and they will be OK for the street, but you do not want them on a car that is going to push the limits while turning.

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post #8 of 14 Old 03-08-2009, 01:09 PM
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^

What he said pretty much sums up what I have heard everywhere. Spherical all around good for drag, ok for street, binding under cornering.

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post #9 of 14 Old 03-08-2009, 01:16 PM
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Why doesn't someone design a UCA that slides? doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do. Or would that mess with the pinion angle to much?

Cheaper than VHT and works great.
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post #10 of 14 Old 03-08-2009, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the great responses fellas...


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post #11 of 14 Old 03-08-2009, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mike06tr View Post
Why doesn't someone design a UCA that slides? doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do. Or would that mess with the pinion angle to much?
I think that kind of setup would have Pinion Angle going crazy.

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post #12 of 14 Old 03-08-2009, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 85GTVince View Post
It has been a long time since I did a detailed study of the stock 4-link (AKA: quadra-bind) kinematics, but this is what I remember...

As the quadra-bind articulates the length of the upper arms needs to change. Since the arms themselves cannot change length, the "effective length" changes by having the soft rubber bushings deflect. When you switch to heim joints the bushings can no longer deflect and you actually increase the bind.

The reason that heim joints work in UCA's for drag race applications is because the UCA length does not need to change if the rear end stays parallel to the ground and body. When a drag car launches both sides of the rear end move together. In this application the heim joints actually help because they stop the rear end from deflecting and they transfer all of the energy to the body.

The problem is that in a road race or auto-cross situation the rear end does not stay parallel to the ground and body. As the car leans going around a corner one end moves up and the other moves down. This is when the "effective length" of the UCA's needs to change. Since the length is fixed you get "snap oversteer" or loss of traction.

The same general reason is why MM tells you that you need stock UCA's with rubber bushings if you plan to run their Panhard Bar with a quadra-bind set-up.

In short, those arms will work well for drag racing and they will be OK for the street, but you do not want them on a car that is going to push the limits while turning.

--Vince
That's about the best AND simple to understand response I've ever heard. Nicely done Sir....

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post #13 of 14 Old 03-08-2009, 04:19 PM
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In four link with my mm lowers I have eurathane on the on the body and sperical at the axle. My uppers are stock. Also with a mm phb. The car was very responsive.

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post #14 of 14 Old 03-08-2009, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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well i'm also stepping down to a 3.73 (from a 4.10), so that will help alot also... right now, with 450+rwhp there is NO traction in 1st/2nd. Its very annoying...

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