Panhard Bar On The Street? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 83 Old 03-02-2009, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Question Panhard Bar On The Street?

Just wondering if there is any downside to running a panhard bar on the street?

Thanks.

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post #2 of 83 Old 03-02-2009, 10:04 PM
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Maybe a little more NHV?


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post #3 of 83 Old 03-02-2009, 10:09 PM
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05-up Mustangs come with them.

I do not have too many miles on my MM PHB/TA but plan on daily driving it.
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post #4 of 83 Old 03-02-2009, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kbscobravert View Post
05-up Mustangs come with them.

I do not have too many miles on my MM PHB/TA but plan on daily driving it.
05-up Mustangs use rubber bushings, not rod ends.

More NVH.

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post #5 of 83 Old 03-02-2009, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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NVH won't bother me I don't think. They really make a big difference in the handling?
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post #6 of 83 Old 03-02-2009, 10:29 PM
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Either way the benefit of the lateral location would probably outweigh the added noise, but that depends on your tolerance for added noise. Some people don't want any.

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post #7 of 83 Old 03-02-2009, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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How much noise...I don't mind a noisy car as long as I'll be able to talk to a passenger without having to yell.
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post #8 of 83 Old 03-02-2009, 10:46 PM
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I seriously doubt it is anywhere near that volume.

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post #9 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 12:39 AM
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Anybody make a panhard bar for the fox chassis cars with a urethane bushing ends instead of a spherical rod end? To avoid the NVH...

Want to put one on my car to reduce/eliminate the rear end jiggles going over bumps and what not on the roads...

EDIT: Guess I found my own answer...checked on Griggs Racing website, theirs has bushing ends and along with saying its the best choice for daily drivers...
http://www.griggsracing.com/index.ph...4322_2055_3835

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post #10 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 04:56 AM
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I'd bet someone $50 if they could tell any difference in NVH on a Fox/SN95 Mustang before and after installing a rod ended PHB.


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post #11 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 07:01 AM
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I'd bet someone $50 if they could tell any difference in NVH on a Fox/SN95 Mustang before and after installing a rod ended PHB.
x2
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post #12 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 09:15 AM
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If this is for your DD, you should take a second look at MM. You probably won't be able to notice the difference and MM makes stong pieces that are designed more along the lines of durability.

I"m running the Steeda PHB because it came with the system but if I would have bought a PHB seperate it would have been MM.

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post #13 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 09:58 AM
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I noticed no increase in NVH with adding the MM PHB. I put a couple hundred miles on the street with one last summer, and was very happy with how well the car went around corners with it installed. For the most part, you don't really know it is back there on the street. The car felt much better when I took it autocrossing, until the balljoint fell out of the control arm and ended the season. Oh well, 2 runs and game over for the entire summer.

This year I will be trying out the panhard rod with a MM torque arm, and MM tubular k-member.

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post #14 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 11:00 AM
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Interesting how Griggs says to remove one upper control arm with theirs. I thought that was not conventional wisdom?
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post #15 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 11:58 AM
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Interesting how Griggs says to remove one upper control arm with theirs. I thought that was not conventional wisdom?
There are tons of arguments on running that setup, aka the Poor Man's 3-link, but I was never ballsy enough to try it, I just sprung for the Torque Arm too

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post #16 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 12:22 PM
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Couple thousand miles on my 93 Coupe with the MM PHB and TA and it is fine. Most of the time the exhaust and stereo drown out the passenger yapping anyhow.

Install them on, strap in, shut up, and drive. When you go as far as to install a PHB I think the days of driving to the grocery store without checking to see if you beat your best time are done and no, taking people out in the cross walk will not get the guy who yells "GOOOOOOOOAL" to give you a shout out.

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post #17 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 12:23 PM
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I got into my buddies 98 that had LCA's, PHB, STB, and a few other odds and ends, and in all honesty, his car had LESS NVH than my car with worn out suspension components.

Youll never tell the difference. As long as you keep your back seat and all that in there, you probably wont notice any NVH unless you went with rod end control arms or something similar.

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post #18 of 83 Old 03-03-2009, 07:16 PM
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I have the MM panhard bar on an otherwise stock 1993 suspension in my daily driver.
To tell you the truth, I'm not sure it made me any faster in autocross, but it feels GREAT on the street!
Best mod I made other than the shifter for daily driving.
A bit more noise ... sort of comes through as little thumps ... but not bad at all.

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post #19 of 83 Old 03-04-2009, 09:37 AM
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Does MM recommend removing one of the uppr arms with their Panhard bar?
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post #20 of 83 Old 03-04-2009, 10:06 AM
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I didnt notice any NVH increase with my MM PHB, I did however notice some increase when I added my UMI spherical control arms <--poly bush on chassis side and spherical on axle side

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post #21 of 83 Old 03-04-2009, 03:36 PM
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No increase in noise on my car. Full MM setup, Delrin bushings....It's a 16yr old car that was never quiet to begin with.

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post #22 of 83 Old 03-04-2009, 03:37 PM
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MM guys, are you running both upper control arms?
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post #23 of 83 Old 03-04-2009, 03:47 PM
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None, I have a torque arm

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post #24 of 83 Old 03-04-2009, 05:31 PM
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Like Jack indicated above, I can't recall much NVH increase with the PHB on the street.

I definitely noticed a NVH increase when I got the lower control arms with the spherical bushing however.

If its a big problem, you can use the MM PH mount and PH bar and fab up some fixed ends with poly bushings. It would require some research and some custom work however. Given my experience with the MM PH, its not needed imho.

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post #25 of 83 Old 03-04-2009, 08:21 PM
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Ok, I looked in the FAQs and still didn't find it so I'm going to prove my newbie-ness by asking what NHV means? I'm assuming more cabin noise?

Sorry guys, I suppose everyone has to start somewhere. While I understand a lot about suspension (just sold my last watercooled VW I used to take to HPDE events) I've recently acquired a '92 SSP Coupe that I'll slowly be converting away from the current drag set-up to a more corner-friendly combo. Been doing a lot of reading about what makes the Fox turn and burn, great forum here!

Thanks guys, sorry for the newb question.

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post #26 of 83 Old 03-04-2009, 08:35 PM
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I made a friend a PHB believer of the benefit of going straight. His car when the tires lose traction it starts moving side to side and gets out of shape. Mine under boost and losing traction it just stays straight with slight adjustment it responds when peddaling it.

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post #27 of 83 Old 03-04-2009, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 3cRider View Post
Ok, I looked in the FAQs and still didn't find it so I'm going to prove my newbie-ness by asking what NHV means? I'm assuming more cabin noise?

Sorry guys, I suppose everyone has to start somewhere. While I understand a lot about suspension (just sold my last watercooled VW I used to take to HPDE events) I've recently acquired a '92 SSP Coupe that I'll slowly be converting away from the current drag set-up to a more corner-friendly combo. Been doing a lot of reading about what makes the Fox turn and burn, great forum here!

Thanks guys, sorry for the newb question.
NVH = noise vibration harshness
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post #28 of 83 Old 03-05-2009, 06:36 PM
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To tell you the truth, I'm not sure it made me any faster in autocross..
That's interesting... any thoughts on why?

I did read that it can cause grip issues when doing fast transitions like a slalom or offset gates, but I'm not sure I understand what they mean.

I am interested in one for a street driven car that serves occasional autox duty.
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post #29 of 83 Old 03-05-2009, 07:05 PM
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That's interesting... any thoughts on why?
Possibly because he hadn't yet unlearned all the bad habits the old suspension had forced him to learn

When I went panhard bar/torque arm it took me several track events to stop driving my car like I used to, to trust its new capabilities and be able to actually use the newfound rear grip.
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post #30 of 83 Old 03-05-2009, 07:06 PM
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^
Could be.

That is what I am experiencing right now.

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post #31 of 83 Old 03-05-2009, 11:01 PM
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I made a friend a PHB believer of the benefit of going straight. His car when the tires lose traction it starts moving side to side and gets out of shape. Mine under boost and losing traction it just stays straight with slight adjustment it responds when peddaling it.
Carrew, good point. That's actually something that caught me by surprise. My straight-line traction improved considerably with the panhard.

I noticed that much of the time that my car initially lost traction before was due to the side to side slop that would get the wheels spinning. Now its firm and steady.

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post #32 of 83 Old 03-06-2009, 06:41 AM
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Does MM recommend removing one of the uppr arms with their Panhard bar?
I installed a MM Panhard rod and eventually removed the driver side upper control arm after getting tired of dealing with alot of binding when the rear suspension was forced to articulate quickly, especially in transitions. Rear traction improved a great deal. The downside was dealing with all the lost spring rate. I put in 400lb. springs in the stock location to combat this. Yesterday I had a MM torque arm installed along with 500lb. springs and the handling improved even more. Now for the first time I'm going to address front end grip by going with a more aggressive alignment which has been a goal of mine for a while because now I have a reason to

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post #33 of 83 Old 03-06-2009, 09:07 AM
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How do those 500# springs feel?

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post #34 of 83 Old 03-06-2009, 02:20 PM
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I didn't notice any additional NVH with the MM PHB installation per se, but I have an exhaust pipe banging on the P/S PHB mount during aggresive left-handers. This developed after initial installation and several hundred miles, because it appeared to have plenty of clearance when installed. Even when I pulled the back seat and related quarter panels out, no specific noise attributable to the PHB; however, road and axle noise did increase. I'm running the MM standard non-adjustible lowers with the FRPP uppers (rubber bushings) per MM's recommendations.
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post #35 of 83 Old 03-06-2009, 08:25 PM
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How do those 500# springs feel?

The 500lb. springs feel just a bit soft. I have Bilstein CO's in the front with 425lb. springs, so I will swap in 600lb. springs in the rear to see if that gets the handling more balanced. It is still transformed with the MM TA/PHB set up
This car actually handles pretty well now.

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