Full suspension 5.0 vs. C6 z06? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 138 Old 02-27-2009, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Full suspension 5.0 vs. C6 z06?

I'm really curious to know how a fully suspended Fox body would compare to a newer Z06 straight off the showroom floor.

I've started on my suspension and am going with the full MM setup. Basically piecing together the "grip box" (T/A, panhard, coil overs etc, etc, etc..).

Will this combo straight spank a Z06 on a road course, or would it be close (or the other way around)?

I use a Z06 as a reference point because it's about the best selling, highest performing factory car I can think of under $80k.


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post #2 of 138 Old 02-27-2009, 08:46 PM
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straight spank?


doubt it bud.


no matter how much aftermarket stuff you put on it, your still comparing 30 year old suspension design to a brand new $70,000 sports car.

itll hang with it i bet, but deff not spank it.


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post #3 of 138 Old 02-27-2009, 09:24 PM
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Not a chance....Z06 is going to dominate.

I spent years on my CP Mustang and untold dollars doing modifications way beyond MM bolt ons.

In the end, it wasn't that much faster than the bone stock C5-Z06 I ran last year.

The advantages will be even greater on a road course.

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post #4 of 138 Old 02-27-2009, 09:48 PM
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The advantages will be even greater on a road course.
Absolutely. I've driven both on a road course. The Z06 will not only be faster, everything else being equal, but a LOT more comfortable, too.

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post #5 of 138 Old 02-27-2009, 10:40 PM
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Maybe if you hate your car and drive the hell out of it. And the Z owner doesn't want to damage or abuse their car....you'll keep up until the warm up lap is over :P

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post #6 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 12:42 AM
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well....... different chassis but same suspension, the GR 05+ mustangs seem to be pretty impressive--and since you posted this im sure you saw the video of the c6 zo6 and the 08 GR40.

long ago here or cc.com there was a long nasty debate on griggs old blue fox notch v.s 03 zo6 and how that car raced against some real exotic cars in the speedvision world challenge. this thread sure drew a line in the sand.

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post #7 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 01:36 AM
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even if you build a fox to compete with a STOCK Z06 whoopty do. itd take so much to get it there, you might as well bought a Z, plus the potential of a Z is rediculous, not to mention he can be jammin to his BOSE stereo with the A/C on talking on his cell phone, while your in a clapped out foxbody race car. just barely keeping up.

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post #8 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 02:21 AM
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point made, id like to see an in depth comparison of the new mustang with the GRtt kit v.s the c6 z06 -- since you race with a/c on and system bumpin.

The GRTT has some of the shortest stopping distances ever recorded from 60 at 96 feet compared to 113 feet of the zo6. we are also talkin a 30 grand difference in price too.

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post #9 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 02:25 AM
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what is a GRtt kit?

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post #10 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 02:33 AM
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the mid level griggs package for the newer mustang. super charger, sla,ta,watts etc....


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post #11 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 02:36 AM
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yea, new mustang, that changed everything.

this thread is talking about foxbody cars, with suspension designs from late 1970's that were designed for straight line performance.


not the 05+ s197, im sure you could outfit one of those to hang with a Z, even then you better have a healthy engine to hang with the Z.

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post #12 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 02:48 AM
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i felt that i should even it out a bit once you started talkin about a/c and more comfy interior. any way same suspension pretty much that they offer for the fox, as the fox with same kit has 60-0 in the 105 feet range.

i like this thread, im gonna look for the old thread/debate i found a while ago about the GR fox notch v.s the c5 zo6 and bring up some of the good points made. the z06 is real cool and all, but im all about tryin to smoke the rich old men with white hair that baby their zo6s around here with an over engineered fairmont chassis!....

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post #13 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 03:13 AM
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have fun with that.

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post #14 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndsideways View Post
i felt that i should even it out a bit once you started talkin about a/c and more comfy interior. any way same suspension pretty much that they offer for the fox, as the fox with same kit has 60-0 in the 105 feet range.

i like this thread, im gonna look for the old thread/debate i found a while ago about the GR fox notch v.s the c5 zo6 and bring up some of the good points made. the z06 is real cool and all, but im all about tryin to smoke the rich old men with white hair that baby their zo6s around here with an over engineered fairmont chassis!....

haha over engineered fairmont chassis I LOVE IT!


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post #15 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 08:09 AM
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Not a chance....Z06 is going to dominate.

I spent years on my CP Mustang and untold dollars doing modifications way beyond MM bolt ons.

In the end, it wasn't that much faster than the bone stock C5-Z06 I ran last year.

The advantages will be even greater on a road course.

DaveW
Just curious, what was done to your Mustang? Full MM or Griggs Tubular front end? SLA? Panhard Bar/Torque Arm? Or Watts Link?
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post #16 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 09:37 AM
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Just curious, what was done to your Mustang? Full MM or Griggs Tubular front end? SLA? Panhard Bar/Torque Arm? Or Watts Link?
Custom SLA low scrub front suspension, custom 3 link rear, completely gutted body work for weight reduction, bajillion point cage, rear mount radiator, very strong engine, 50/50 weight distribution, blah, blah, blah.

On good surfaces, I was faster than a lot of Z06's and SS. But if you look at the 2008 Solo Natiomals Results, CP as a whole was barely faster than SS. CP winning time was only a few tenths faster than SS.

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post #17 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndsideways View Post
point made, id like to see an in depth comparison of the new mustang with the GRtt kit v.s the c6 z06 -- since you race with a/c on and system bumpin.

The GRTT has some of the shortest stopping distances ever recorded from 60 at 96 feet compared to 113 feet of the zo6. we are also talkin a 30 grand difference in price too.

They compared a fully built car to a bone stock Z06 on junk tires. I'll take the Z06.

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post #18 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 04:18 PM
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What about an IRS Fox would that make a difference or same out come?
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post #19 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 04:37 PM
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What about an IRS Fox would that make a difference or same out come?
It would make the Fox heavier and slower....

The difference is in weight distribution, CG height, driver location and for track use, width and wheelbase. Some of those are hard to fix.

As long as a the 800# lump of metal called the engine and transmission is cantelevered 6 inches over the front tires, the Fox is not going to be Corvette. A S197 is better, but still...


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post #20 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 05:47 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0i8I6yViEk

looks like a good maier package could smash the competition I think, check out the video. bassazz
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post #21 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 05:57 PM
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I have both
C5 Z06
95 GT road race machine with 552rwhp

z06 has such a huge advantage compared to any mustang. Stock it is engineered to have all the weight in the right places and the center of gravity is so much lower so it is ultra stable at high speed.

It just depends on what you want / afford. I love the z06 but, it is not the most practical car for every day due to only 2 seats and low as hell. also insurance is extremely high. plus crazy expensive!

My most feared car at the road race tracks are the z06's they are just nasty fast.

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post #22 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 09:00 PM
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I don't think there's one answer, unless level of prep is equal...in other words, yeah, a fully developed Fox on race tires could hang with a stock C6 Z06 on run flats and stock alignment on the Streets of Willow, maybe...but, just put some DOT R's on the Z06 and it's all over.
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post #23 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 09:24 PM
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this thread is comparing apples to oranges.

race prepped 30 year old design vs present day brand new stock sports car. HELLLLO?

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post #24 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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this thread is comparing apples to oranges.

race prepped 30 year old design vs present day brand new stock sports car. HELLLLO?
What's wrong with it? I think it's bad @ss that a ~$20k, properly prepped and tuned Foxbody could even potentially hang with a modern Vette. How cool would it be to see the look on some guys face who just spent $80k on a Vette when your 87' 5.0 is keepin up?

How about a standard C6 Vette? Maybe that's more orange to orangish?

I think this thread is cool. It's shattered my dreams of beating a Z06 (c'mon, im kidding), but it's informative to me.

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post #25 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 09:57 PM
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How cool would it be to see the look on some guys face who just spent $80k on a Vette when your 87' 5.0 is keepin up?
.
then he'll put some tires on his car and see the look on your face when you see the difference tires made. then he will keep his a/c on and the bose bumpin lol.


even the Z51 regular ole c6 would hand the 5.0 its ass. trust me man, i love fox mustangs, Im just sayin the Vette is made for that kinda stuff. Gotta give credit where the credit is due, and with this comparison the vette would win hands down.

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post #26 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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then he'll put some tires on his car and see the look on your face when you see the difference tires made. then he will keep his a/c on and the bose bumpin lol.


even the Z51 regular ole c6 would hand the 5.0 its ass. trust me man, i love fox mustangs, Im just sayin the Vette is made for that kinda stuff. Gotta give credit where the credit is due, and with this comparison the vette would win hands down.
Hey, I agree 100%. Vette's are awesome cars. Total package of looks, handling, power, comfort and reliability. But the price kinda kills it unfortunately.

Actually C5 Z06's are pretty reasonable now. Hmmmmm.....

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post #27 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 10:24 PM
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price is perfectly fine. look at the performance you get. and compare it to any other car with the same performance today and look at the price comparison

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post #28 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 10:34 PM
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This thread has all the stink of "how to handle like a BMW" with the added effluence of "yeah, but if you took the price difference and put ___________ on the mustang".

Which is to say, not "no homo".
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post #29 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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=
Which is to say, not "no homo".
Translation please.... I have no idea what you're reffering too. However, it's mildy interesting, so I'll ask.

And I'll agree, this thread became a little off-topic. Considering the original question was regarding a fully MM suspended (or griggs for that matter, similar league) Fox body.

Anyhow, I still enjoy reading all of the responses.

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post #30 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 11:08 PM
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there was 2 z06's at this Road Atlanta event both very quick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_wAj5Vfp8U


dont be hating on the music it was a inside joke

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post #31 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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there was 2 z06's at this Road Atlanta event both very quick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_wAj5Vfp8U


dont be hating on the music it was a inside joke
Haha, best song ever!!!!

Cool vid, thanks.

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Now with a 9.5:1 Coyote Aluminator and t56 Magnum looking for a little boost....

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post #32 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 11:14 PM
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What about the driver. You can put all the parts you want but if you can't drive it......

The biggest hope is that the Z06 driver just bought the car to for looks and doesn't know how to drive. There are plenty of those guys out there. Some of those guys could be beat with a stock fox.

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post #33 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 11:16 PM
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there was 2 z06's at this Road Atlanta event both very quick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_wAj5Vfp8U


dont be hating on the music it was a inside joke
Damn that's cookin'

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post #34 of 138 Old 02-28-2009, 11:22 PM
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Outside of all value judgements, "opinions", irrelevant tangents and general misinformation...




but, the original question, simply if it was possible to hang with a stock Z06 in a modified Fox, is one that many of our local SAAC guys have attempted to answer over the years, so it definitely has interest to some...
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post #35 of 138 Old 03-01-2009, 01:37 PM
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The cars arent driving themselves but people are driving them. Therefore id say it depends on whos driving. i have seen a ton of z06's that are very unimpressive, and then some that are the exact opposite. its not impossible to make it happen but to some that are just flipping through catalogs trying to make there car go faster and handle better Id say they are missing the bigger picture. there are some really fast drivers in our club and id say that there vintage mustangs would wax your average z06 and if you got under the car youd see there wasnt a whole lot of your "mail order" bs type parts but everything is setup correctly and the drivers are good.
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