Front sway Bar 05 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 02-21-2009, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Front sway Bar 05

Starting to think about the new 0pen track season and will probably go with either a sway bar kit from either steeda or eibach... I was thinking maybe it would be better to just stay with the front stock bar and go with upgraded mounts and the adjustable links...Has anyone tried that combo...stock bar and adjustable link? I do about 4 or 5 events a summer and mostly drive on the street, however I would like to able to tune the front bar for the different tracks.

I have BMRs lowering, variable rate springs and the steeda front relocation kit on the car now. Doesent seem to be much camber change from the tire wear I got after last season. GA


05 GT, 09 Shelby GT500 drivetrain. 2.5" pulley, JLT intake. JBA long tubes, catted X mid pipe, Tune by John Lund. 568 rwhp, 560 torque. full Cortex Racing suspension. Koni adjustable coilovers, watts link, torque arm. 14" Brembo fronts, 2014 13.3" rear conversion.
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post #2 of 13 Old 02-24-2009, 11:13 PM
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I sont see how an adjustable link will let you change the swaybar stiffenss to tune the car. The Steeda adjustable front bar has three different mounting holes for the endlinks to change their leverage on the swaybar. Changing the endlink lenth by iteslf wont accomplish that.

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post #3 of 13 Old 02-25-2009, 02:31 PM
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Links don't allow any adjustment to roll stiffness. But they allow you to adjust things so that you eliminate pre-load on the car which can enhance grip on turn-in.

I would not recommend a bigger front bar alone on a GT. It's already stiff enough to unload the inside front tire (and at times pick it right off the ground)... unless you do something to match the bump in front, plus a little more, the car will not be faster with a front bar change.

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post #4 of 13 Old 03-03-2009, 03:30 PM
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I have additional questions on this topic and perhaps the champ (Sam), or someone else with experience with the S197s, can help me out.

Ive only been autocrossing for a while and Im looking at some upgrades aswell. I am too, on a budget. My current mods are Eibach springs and a UPR Adjustible Panhard. I race SCCA, SM class, and Im thinking swaybars also.

The front only pushes when I make a mistake. My biggest problem is keeping the rear of the car under me during accelleration, so Im thinking a rear sway bar will do wonders, but I dont know how stiff I should go. Will getting a super-stiff rear sway bar make the car too unbalanced?

The stock S197 rear sway bar is 20mm, Eibach's/FRPP's is 22mm, Steeda's is 24mm, and H&R's is 26mm. Keeping in mind that I will continue to upgrade both swaybars and rear controll arms eventually, will getting the stiffest rear sway bar now, make the car too unbalanced? Is upgrading the controll arms a better mod to do first?

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post #5 of 13 Old 03-03-2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallek View Post
I have additional questions on this topic and perhaps the champ (Sam), or someone else with experience with the S197s, can help me out.

Ive only been autocrossing for a while and Im looking at some upgrades aswell. I am too, on a budget. My current mods are Eibach springs and a UPR Adjustible Panhard. I race SCCA, SM class, and Im thinking swaybars also.

The front only pushes when I make a mistake. My biggest problem is keeping the rear of the car under me during accelleration, so Im thinking a rear sway bar will do wonders, but I dont know how stiff I should go. Will getting a super-stiff rear sway bar make the car too unbalanced?

The stock S197 rear sway bar is 20mm, Eibach's/FRPP's is 22mm, Steeda's is 24mm, and H&R's is 26mm. Keeping in mind that I will continue to upgrade both swaybars and rear controll arms eventually, will getting the stiffest rear sway bar now, make the car too unbalanced? Is upgrading the controll arms a better mod to do first?

You don't want to go stiffer in the rear to fix oversteer, you want to go softer.
Your other option (sway bar wise) is to stiffen the front.

I'm not sure what is allowed in your class but ride height and control arm angles can help oversteer/corner exit traction also.

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post #6 of 13 Old 03-04-2009, 11:01 AM
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... control arm angles can help oversteer/corner exit traction also.
Greg
Hmm, interesting. I've seen some rear lower controll arm relocation brackets for the S197s. My car is lowered so the controll arm angle is actually upward tword the rear, rather than level, like stock ride height. This thought makes me lean more tword getting Rear Controll Arms and Relocation Brackets rather then a Rear Sway Bar, considering my issue is during acceleration.

A beefier rear sway bar would flatten out the car in corners though, correct? Weight would be more even on both rear tires when the car is loaded to one side.

Jump in if Im off on this, please!

Rear Controll Arms and Relocation Brackets = better traction during accelleration

Stiffer Rear Sway Bar = less weight transfer through corners

Jerry kellaR - Sonic Blue '05 GT
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Last edited by Rallek; 03-04-2009 at 01:23 PM.
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post #7 of 13 Old 03-04-2009, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rallek View Post
A beefier rear sway bar would flatten out the car in corners though, correct? Weight would be more even on both rear tires when the car is loaded to one side.
That's not how it works. The consequence of "flatter cornering" in the rear is increased loading on the outside tire and decreased loading on the inside tire. But any transfer of loading from one side to another decreases the total available traction between the two tires, because the tire's traction increase due to loading is not linear, it increases at a lower rate than load.
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post #8 of 13 Old 03-04-2009, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replys...I understand that bigger sway bars add spring rate, which stiffens the roll rate of the body. If the front pushes one can either the tighten the rear sway bar, if adjustable, or loosen the front bar. Do I have this correct? GA

05 GT, 09 Shelby GT500 drivetrain. 2.5" pulley, JLT intake. JBA long tubes, catted X mid pipe, Tune by John Lund. 568 rwhp, 560 torque. full Cortex Racing suspension. Koni adjustable coilovers, watts link, torque arm. 14" Brembo fronts, 2014 13.3" rear conversion.
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post #9 of 13 Old 03-04-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garyalp View Post
Thanks for all the replys...I understand that bigger sway bars add spring rate, which stiffens the roll rate of the body. If the front pushes one can either the tighten the rear sway bar, if adjustable, or loosen the front bar. Do I have this correct? GA
Yes, you do. You also have to be careful about comparing sway bars from different manufacturers simply by outside diameter. There is a good bit of difference based on the grade of steel used and whether or not it is of solid or tubular design.
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post #10 of 13 Old 03-04-2009, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallek View Post
I have additional questions on this topic and perhaps the champ (Sam), or someone else with experience with the S197s, can help me out.

Ive only been autocrossing for a while and Im looking at some upgrades aswell. I am too, on a budget. My current mods are Eibach springs and a UPR Adjustible Panhard. I race SCCA, SM class, and Im thinking swaybars also.

The front only pushes when I make a mistake. My biggest problem is keeping the rear of the car under me during accelleration, so Im thinking a rear sway bar will do wonders, but I dont know how stiff I should go. Will getting a super-stiff rear sway bar make the car too unbalanced?

The stock S197 rear sway bar is 20mm, Eibach's/FRPP's is 22mm, Steeda's is 24mm, and H&R's is 26mm. Keeping in mind that I will continue to upgrade both swaybars and rear controll arms eventually, will getting the stiffest rear sway bar now, make the car too unbalanced? Is upgrading the controll arms a better mod to do first?

First thing to note is where you said it only pushes when you make a mistake. Well, that's to be expected, the best car in the world will understeer if you go in too hot. If the balance is good then the balance is good.

Running more rear bar will not make the rear stay put under you better, it will make the car more loose. Your complaint is pretty clearly power on oversteer. Comes from spinning the rear tires. Worse on less sticky tires that are easier to spin. And given the car seems well balanced on stock bars I'd have to guess you might be on some sort of street tire vs. a set of R-comps?

More rear swaybar, from what I gather here, it not the answer--at all. Without knowing the details (all of them, what parts are on the car, what tires, alignment, etc) I can't say "do this". Too many factors at play. Now, I'm happy to go over the setup and make some suggestions to you. But I have to ask you call me. It's not possible for me to feel like I have all the info I need and make a recommendation I'm good with by e-mail. Way too vague

My phone number is 814-849-3450. This is what I do. I don't just sell parts, but look at the setup as well and make sure we are what I feel is the right track.


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post #11 of 13 Old 03-04-2009, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallek View Post
Hmm, interesting. I've seen some rear lower controll arm relocation brackets for the S197s. My car is lowered so the controll arm angle is actually upward tword the rear, rather than level, like stock ride height. This thought makes me lean more tword getting Rear Controll Arms and Relocation Brackets rather then a Rear Sway Bar, considering my issue is during acceleration.

A beefier rear sway bar would flatten out the car in corners though, correct? Weight would be more even on both rear tires when the car is loaded to one side.

Jump in if Im off on this, please!

Rear Controll Arms and Relocation Brackets = better traction during accelleration

Stiffer Rear Sway Bar = less weight transfer through corners
Not that simple....

LCA brackets set to a LCA tail down position does enhance traction by changing the instant center of the car. They also cause roll oversteer as the body rolls and effectively lengthens the outboard side LCA. Not what I want. And fwiw, since I run a Shelby in FS and I can't do things like brackets, etc. our car is the same way (as is my ESP winning Camaro). Not only do I not run LCA brackets because I'm not allowed, I wouldn't even if I could.

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post #12 of 13 Old 03-06-2009, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Sam, You mentioned pre load on the front bar with adjustable links. All things being equal, If there is more pre load does that mean that the bar will act sooner or will it act like it is stiffer...GA

05 GT, 09 Shelby GT500 drivetrain. 2.5" pulley, JLT intake. JBA long tubes, catted X mid pipe, Tune by John Lund. 568 rwhp, 560 torque. full Cortex Racing suspension. Koni adjustable coilovers, watts link, torque arm. 14" Brembo fronts, 2014 13.3" rear conversion.
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post #13 of 13 Old 03-09-2009, 01:24 PM
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Getting rid or pre-load makes more grip on turn in because you haven't put as much load on the tire as fast.

It has no bearing on how much roll stiffness you have.

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