Got everything together, last min questions - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 55 Old 05-26-2019, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
Got everything together, last min questions

Alright, I got everything together on the Pro-m install with my Quick 4.
-Are there any last minute things I should double check?
-Can I get some clarificaiton on the wideband steps?

Leave sensors wideband sensors disconnected
Apply key-on power
Will get wideband error but leave key-on to download pro-m tune (should the tune be set to force WB on?)
Turn key-off
Connect WB sensors, but not installed in exhaust
Turn key-on
Let the WB sensor calibrate
In the pro-m tune turn the WB sensor to not be forced on, save, and download.
Turn key-off
Turn key-on
Connect WB serial connections and set the parameters.
Turn key off.

After this I should be good to go through with starting the car, correct?


'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 55 Old 05-27-2019, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
well, I go the widebands calibrated and programmed.
I made the initial adjustments to the tune per instructions and used the "write all" function to write to the Prom system. The only thing that I am seeing as different from the instruction now are the following:

Cooling Fan/Configuration option is now Independent or Hi/Lo. No "enable" that I could see, so I selected Hi/Lo.
The original instructions does not have the info about making the widebands be "Forced On" for all of the initial setup. I had to have the tune to be forced on so I could open air calibrate AND program the values per the instructions.

Other than that I put in my engine configuration, MAF with 30pt curve, and the injector information. I have Accel 30lb injectors, so hopefully that does not cause me any issues.

I am assuming that I am ready to try and fir this thing up. I previously had it running on my old tune, so the timing should be at 10 degrees as that is what I set it to about 2 months ago.


'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
post #3 of 55 Old 05-27-2019, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
well, no start as of now.
It cranks over easy, but never fires. Fuel pump does prime initially.

Not sure what I need to check at this point as the car started and idled prior to this install, so I would not think that there is a mechanical issue anywhere.

Areas to start investigating?

'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 55 Old 05-27-2019, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
If it helps, I did clear the DTC errors before my last start and no change. Just cranks, but no start.

I do have a 4R70W in the car, but if the way the way the NSS was wired with the A9L and SCT chip with running success, I would assume all would be well with the Pro-M system. Anything to check on this front? I am assuming not since it is cranking over.

'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
post #5 of 55 Old 05-29-2019, 10:16 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Roscoe, IL
Posts: 339
Possibly the neutral safety switch, if there is one? I'm not sure how they are wired on those. If nothing else I would email Chris Richards directly.

94 Cobra
363 Stroker with S-Trim coming 2019;-)
stacked8 is online now  
post #6 of 55 Old 05-29-2019, 01:18 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ny
Posts: 1,453
To use the force on function for the widebands you must have a dedicated relay and wire added to the harness.

I'm unsure that it is now included with the purchase of the system.

It is a software patch from pro m that turns on the widebands after the engine is running. Some customers have thermal shock problems while others like myself don't.

To calibrate the wideband sensors without the software patch:

REMOVE THE SENSORS FROM THE EXHAUST AND LEAVE OPEN TO FRESH AIR. Key off engine off disconnect the widebands. Key on engine on the widebands will display "er". Leave it like this for a minute. Turn the key off. Reconnect the sensors. Turn the key on. The widebands will display "Cal". The go to 22.4. turn the key off. Reinstall the sensors into the exhaust.

To calibrate the widebands with the software patch:

Install supplemental relay and wire. Email Chris Richards for the wire. The wiring is very simple.
After you have that installed go into the calibration under uego and change the setting to force on. Click save and write all. Then follow the steps above. After you have done that, return the setting to normal, save and write to calibration and you're done.

Pm me if you have any questions
kjb302ho is offline  
post #7 of 55 Old 05-29-2019, 01:25 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ny
Posts: 1,453
kjb302ho is offline  
post #8 of 55 Old 05-29-2019, 09:46 PM
Registered User
 
ragtop50's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (14)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Linden, NC
Posts: 414
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjb302ho View Post
To use the force on function for the widebands you must have a dedicated relay and wire added to the harness.

I'm unsure that it is now included with the purchase of the system.

It is a software patch from pro m that turns on the widebands after the engine is running. Some customers have thermal shock problems while others like myself don't.

To calibrate the wideband sensors without the software patch:

REMOVE THE SENSORS FROM THE EXHAUST AND LEAVE OPEN TO FRESH AIR. Key off engine off disconnect the widebands. Key on engine on the widebands will display "er". Leave it like this for a minute. Turn the key off. Reconnect the sensors. Turn the key on. The widebands will display "Cal". The go to 22.4. turn the key off. Reinstall the sensors into the exhaust.

To calibrate the widebands with the software patch:

Install supplemental relay and wire. Email Chris Richards for the wire. The wiring is very simple.
After you have that installed go into the calibration under uego and change the setting to force on. Click save and write all. Then follow the steps above. After you have done that, return the setting to normal, save and write to calibration and you're done.

Pm me if you have any questions
I just spoke with Chris Richards over the weekend (I just purchased my EFI system last week) and the new harness and software patch for the widebands is not standard in the Pro-M kit...yet. It is coming in about a month along with a bunch of other new features shortly after. Think trans control, traction control, etc
I would love to see some kind of boost control?

.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
1990 Light Crystal Blue LX Convertible, TW170, Lunati 20350711, TMOSS GT40 Tubular, 3550 5-speed, 3.55 Gears
ragtop50 is online now  
post #9 of 55 Old 05-30-2019, 08:24 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ny
Posts: 1,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtop50 View Post
I just spoke with Chris Richards over the weekend (I just purchased my EFI system last week) and the new harness and software patch for the widebands is not standard in the Pro-M kit...yet. It is coming in about a month along with a bunch of other new features shortly after. Think trans control, traction control, etc
I would love to see some kind of boost control?

.
Yes he has a whole bunch of great updates coming out. Some pretty cool stuff
kjb302ho is offline  
post #10 of 55 Old 05-30-2019, 10:08 AM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001sleeper View Post
well, no start as of now.
It cranks over easy, but never fires. Fuel pump does prime initially.

Not sure what I need to check at this point as the car started and idled prior to this install, so I would not think that there is a mechanical issue anywhere.

Areas to start investigating?

a prime does not ensure pump on in CRANK

check to see if power is applied in crank to the pump, if not you will not get injector pulse either.

this leads to a lack of cam/crank signal, PIP


89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #11 of 55 Old 05-30-2019, 11:47 AM
Registered User
 
Mustang408's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Renton,WA
Posts: 362
With my Pro-M, I have found that if you leave the ground off from the back of the head/intake to the fire wall the car won't start.
I was looking for a cleaner method for grounding and put a dedicated 4gauge line from the block to the frame rail - didn't work.
Mustang408 is offline  
post #12 of 55 Old 05-30-2019, 06:51 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ny
Posts: 1,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang408 View Post
With my Pro-M, I have found that if you leave the ground off from the back of the head/intake to the fire wall the car won't start.
I was looking for a cleaner method for grounding and put a dedicated 4gauge line from the block to the frame rail - didn't work.
With my pro m, I went right from the firewall directly to the block, where all my grounds are. I used a 6g cable.

I was told by Chris Richards to avoid the head, intake, timing cover as grounding points.
kjb302ho is offline  
post #13 of 55 Old 05-30-2019, 08:05 PM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang408 View Post
With my Pro-M, I have found that if you leave the ground off from the back of the head/intake to the fire wall the car won't start.
I was looking for a cleaner method for grounding and put a dedicated 4gauge line from the block to the frame rail - didn't work.
02 heater ground leads to a no start?

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #14 of 55 Old 05-31-2019, 05:23 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ny
Posts: 1,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
02 heater ground leads to a no start?
There is no more o2 sensor ground located at the back of the head with the pro m. The wideband sensors are grounded through the unit itself which is grounded directly to the negative on the battery.
kjb302ho is offline  
post #15 of 55 Old 05-31-2019, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjb302ho View Post
There is no more o2 sensor ground located at the back of the head with the pro m. The wideband sensors are grounded through the unit itself which is grounded directly to the negative on the battery.
correct. You guys got me thinking that I was missing a ground!

Anyhow, I talked to Chris Tuesday and the recommendaitons are the following.
-Put in a stock shutter wheel into my MSD distributor (I have one laying around)
-Buy a new motorcraft ignition pickup and install it
-May not need to, but replace the MSD coil

I am going this route and have all parts to do so.
I took a comparison pic of the MSD shutter wheel and the Ford wheel and the differences are pretty drastic from what I can see. I tried to upload it, but it would not go even after resizing.


New question, do I put dielectric grease on the new pickup itself between housing and pickup, or just the distributor housing and TFI module?

'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
post #16 of 55 Old 05-31-2019, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
for what it is worth, here is an MSD shutter vs a Ford one.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg shutter wheel.JPG (50.2 KB, 28 views)

'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
post #17 of 55 Old 05-31-2019, 10:54 PM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjb302ho View Post
There is no more o2 sensor ground located at the back of the head with the pro m. The wideband sensors are grounded through the unit itself which is grounded directly to the negative on the battery.
I said HEATER not sensor

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #18 of 55 Old 05-31-2019, 10:56 PM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001sleeper View Post
correct. You guys got me thinking that I was missing a ground!

Anyhow, I talked to Chris Tuesday and the recommendaitons are the following.
-Put in a stock shutter wheel into my MSD distributor (I have one laying around)
-Buy a new motorcraft ignition pickup and install it
-May not need to, but replace the MSD coil

I am going this route and have all parts to do so.
I took a comparison pic of the MSD shutter wheel and the Ford wheel and the differences are pretty drastic from what I can see. I tried to upload it, but it would not go even after resizing.


New question, do I put dielectric grease on the new pickup itself between housing and pickup, or just the distributor housing and TFI module?
if you suspect the PIP why are you changing parts before verifying the signal is NOT there?

if it is not, then you check power and grounds to the TFI,,,,

i have seen no such tests yet?

Hell, you can even do a bypass test, and provide a manual PIP to see if the pump and injectors come on.....very simple, you are the TFI

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #19 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 05:06 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ny
Posts: 1,453
Pro m efi has a built in scope function.

O2 sensor, o2 sensor heater ,doesn't matter. It's all grounded through the ems.

Buy the system and learn about it.
kjb302ho is offline  
post #20 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 08:07 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Roscoe, IL
Posts: 339
Can't see this being a grounding issue. You have the parts, give it a shot...would be quicker than these tests but I suggest changing one at a time and trying to start it so you aren't chasing your tail.

94 Cobra
363 Stroker with S-Trim coming 2019;-)
stacked8 is online now  
post #21 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 09:08 AM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjb302ho View Post
Pro m efi has a built in scope function.

O2 sensor, o2 sensor heater ,doesn't matter. It's all grounded through the ems.

Buy the system and learn about it.
well that makes it easy to test then

power it up, look for a rpm signal

I could not find wiring diagram avail on the prom site

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #22 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 09:13 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 467
Pro M markets a really nice shutter wheel. I ran one of those even before I went with the Pro M ECU. The Pro M ECU doesn't use the module for ignition. Its just along for the ride, and provides a connector only for the pickup inside the distributor. If I have my facts straight on that. Once you get it running you should see how clean it is once you put a light on it for timing. Provided that you have a good light and a quality timing chain. I only have 4 grounds. Battery to block. OEM firewall to head strap. ECU to battery, And ECU to floor pan under the seat. O2's are powered and grounded via the ECU. Plus, something that is handy is you can do a limited datalog or digital dash using an Android Tablet and a Bluetooth device thru the OBD2 port. If you have an OBD2 splitter cable you can do both the Bluetooth and the laptop at the same time. Which not very many mentions on that. I rely on both for different circumstances. Good luck!
2 step is offline  
post #23 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 10:58 AM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
regardless of ignition system, the ecm requires a cam/crank signal

a no start will result in a lack of that signal

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #24 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 12:01 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 467
Should be in the variables list under RPM Mode I believe, although I haven't pulled the coil wire to verify.
2 step is offline  
post #25 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
So.....Do I put the white heat compound only on the distributor housing and TFI module, or do I put it on the metal part of the PIP that contacts the housing as well? I can then through the distributor in and see if the car will start.

'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
post #26 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
Car fired up after I put in the new PIP, stock shutter wheel, and new coil.
It would not idle, but I need to start it without the spout connector and mess with the timing since I pulled the distributor. Probably a good bit off.

'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
post #27 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 10:24 PM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001sleeper View Post
Car fired up after I put in the new PIP, stock shutter wheel, and new coil.
It would not idle, but I need to start it without the spout connector and mess with the timing since I pulled the distributor. Probably a good bit off.
you didn't check rpm signal or scope the PIP before throwing parts at it?

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #28 of 55 Old 06-01-2019, 11:15 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Roscoe, IL
Posts: 339
Guy gets a condescending response for making progress. Nice work....let us now how you make out.

94 Cobra
363 Stroker with S-Trim coming 2019;-)
stacked8 is online now  
post #29 of 55 Old 06-02-2019, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
you didn't check rpm signal or scope the PIP before throwing parts at it?
essentially, yes. I understand your position, but when I called Chris he told me that he was 99% sure that it was the shutter wheel preventing the coil from functioning. I did not need a new coil or the ignition pickup, I just went with them for reliability. So yes, in hindsight I could have taken some measurements and installed my stock shutter wheel on the MSD distributor to truly troubleshoot.

'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
post #30 of 55 Old 06-02-2019, 11:44 AM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacked8 View Post
Guy gets a condescending response for making progress. Nice work....let us now how you make out.
this is not about your feelings

this is about an opportunity to learn the system and its diagnostic tools which are powerful, with features that separate this system from others

but, you pump those pom poms, your choice

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #31 of 55 Old 06-07-2019, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 1,756
I roughed in the timing by removing the fuel pump relay and setting it while having someone crank the car over. Chris said that it will be commanding 10 degrees while cranking. This allowed me to get the car running and then a 1/4 turn of the throttle blade had me idling at about 1000rpm.

My question is that the once the car is running, the first step in the instructions is to double check the timing by pulling the spout connector. However, once I pull the spout connector the car dies. is this because I am not letting the car get to operating temp before pulling the spout connector? I would think 10 degrees at idle warm or could would be enough to keep running.

'01 GT:
YSI, 20lbs
89 LX:
347 stock
2001sleeper is offline  
post #32 of 55 Old 06-07-2019, 07:39 PM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
operating temp is best time to pull the spout

idle strategy uses spark to control idle rpm

people often make the mistake to think the IAC controls idle rpm

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #33 of 55 Old 06-07-2019, 11:09 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ny
Posts: 1,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
operating temp is best time to pull the spout

idle strategy uses spark to control idle rpm

people often make the mistake to think the IAC controls idle rpm
Wrong again.

Pro m uses iac and spark for idle.

That's why you use the throttle stop screw to set the idle.
kjb302ho is offline  
post #34 of 55 Old 06-07-2019, 11:31 PM
Registered User
 
indy2000's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: vancouver
Posts: 20,850
listen shadow

the strategy does NOT use IAC for idle rpm


run to chris and find out

if you dont know what the stop is for, read along

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
indy2000 is online now  
post #35 of 55 Old 06-08-2019, 11:16 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ny
Posts: 1,453
Let me shed some light.

Set idle speed using stop screw. Take desired idle speed and write it to the ecm. Bring up certain values from "variables" list and use them to fine tune the correct proportion of air passing through the throttle blade, the amount of correction the bypass valve is doing to to maintain idle AND the amount of spark advance that the ECU is using to maintain idle.

This is a simple version, but if you ever order the system, I'd be happy to help.
kjb302ho is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome