Need help tuning - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 03-15-2019, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Need help tuning

I had a long message started and decided it was too long... So here are my current issues, shorter version. I did not email Chris Richards on these yet and he may even see this so......

Installed the Pro-M efi. Most of the issues/struggles were because of all the changes I had made to the car over the past 22 years... So after installing the stock distributor back in the car fired right up. Surged a for a few seconds and smoothed out. Idle was a bit high at 1100+ RPM. I have the system set to 1000 rpm. I was able to set the timing, set the fuel pressure and the TPS to .94 but the next step to set the base idle as soon as I disconnect the IAC is dies. I have the set screw set all the way open and it still stalls. I also have the issue that once warmed up and I turn it off I cannot restart it without using the gas pedal. So it seems to me not enough airflow? The only change I did this week for all this was raise the injector low slope value from something like 39.X to 41.4. Now it starts up and doesn't surge at all, but still dies when I disconnect the IAC and still need to use the gas pedal to restart when warmed up.

Just looking for suggestions on what to look at.

Additional info:
I currently have a C&L 76mm and used a transfer data sheet from a tuning website. I knew that could potentially be an issue and ordered the 75mm PRO-M MAF yesterday with the full transfer sheet.
The injector corrections on both banks show between .1X and just over .2X so that doesn't seem too far off.

Thanks for everyone's time. Looking to enjoy driving the car again more then just at the track

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post #2 of 28 Old 03-15-2019, 10:30 AM
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Not sure what your engine combo is, but I had the same issue and the problem was not enough airflow. My 351w has 90mm intake piping, 92mm MAF, 90mm throttle body and intake opening. It idles around 1200 RPM.

Iíd crack the throttle open a bit more. Donít forget to reset the TPS position once youíve messed with the throttle screw.

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post #3 of 28 Old 03-15-2019, 01:14 PM
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Cool

Is the IAC new and a Motorcraft piece? I like the 351w IAC, just a personal preference plus itís a little smaller, I donít know why the car would die but you definitely need to talk to Chris, heís extremely helpful with stuff like this, donít hesitate to talk him regarding any issues you are having.

On a side note, this is what I love about the system, if something isnít right you know because the car doesnít run right and you are forced to fix it rather than tune around it, keep at it, the new MAF isnít a bad idea, no need to run a C&L with this system, sorry I wasnít more help, keep us posted on your progress.
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post #4 of 28 Old 03-15-2019, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan_GT View Post
Not sure what your engine combo is, but I had the same issue and the problem was not enough airflow. My 351w has 90mm intake piping, 92mm MAF, 90mm throttle body and intake opening. It idles around 1200 RPM.

Iíd crack the throttle open a bit more. Donít forget to reset the TPS position once youíve messed with the throttle screw.
That's just it... the throttle screw is in all the way (open) and it still dies. I think I'll set the tps way low so I can open the TB even more by hand and disconnect the IAC and see if that allows it to still run. If I get time this weekend. If not I'll see if there is any different with the new MAF that should come this coming week.

@turboLXstang

I'm not sure about the IAC brand..... I think I had 2-3 laying around. I'll have to see what's on there and try another if I have a Motorcraft one, but that may be the one with the cracked female plug. And yes, i'm never questioning the new system, just all the parts I've thrown at it and the changes made
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post #5 of 28 Old 03-15-2019, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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I thought I had the combo.... 347, trick flow street heat upper/lower, AFR heads I think the 205 heads, Long tube headers, larger TB also forget what size. Contour electric fan and larger 3 core alu radiator.
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post #6 of 28 Old 03-15-2019, 05:20 PM
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Pull the intake tube off and look at how much the blade is cracked when you adjust the throttle body screw.
Might want to double check engine timing and how the distributor is stabbed.
Don't worry about adjusting the TPS.
The IAC allows air to bypass the throttle blade when in use, unplugging will just keep it closed all the time.
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post #7 of 28 Old 03-18-2019, 04:43 PM
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You're dumping too much fuel. 1.10 means your adding 10% fuel. 1.20 means it's adding 20%

A real meter and an accurate Transfer function is a great idea. Start there first. Then put a motorcraft iac in. Pm me if you have any questions happy to help
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post #8 of 28 Old 03-25-2019, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Found that the idle screw didn't even start to open the throttle blade until about 1/2 in or so. I found a longer screw so I could open it more. I was then able to disconnect the IAC and the car kept running, YEAH! Set the idle speed and reset the TPS. The PI correction though doesn't seem to change much when changing the injector low slope. It seems to change a bit at first but goes back to .1X - .2X correction. Possible vacuum leak? I did a smoke test last year and didn't find anything but I did remove the upper intake to install the harness so I'll go through it again and smoke test it again if needed. Also it did restart once while hot without using the gas pedal, barely but the 2nd time I had to use the gas pedal for it to start warm. I had put the stock ect sensor in. It seems to have a more accurate reading then the aftermarket one I had put it. It's great that I can see that with the software.

I didn't drive it yet. Yesterday was the first day it would have been nice enough to do so. In the 60s and the snow is gone.
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post #9 of 28 Old 03-25-2019, 08:08 PM
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either the fueling is off or the inputs reporting are wrong

20% correction is not even close

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #10 of 28 Old 03-25-2019, 08:26 PM
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You have to disable to O2s, which then disables the PI Correction channels, if you are making changes to the low slope. The ECU is trying to compensate. You need to look at the wideband gauge reading once theyíre disabled, or disable them, make the change, re-enable, and see what the PI Correction is.

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post #11 of 28 Old 03-25-2019, 09:29 PM
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shouldn't the PI corrections approach 0 when dialing in the fuel?

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #12 of 28 Old 03-26-2019, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
shouldn't the PI corrections approach 0 when dialing in the fuel?
That is true

1993 Cobra #1282
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post #13 of 28 Old 03-26-2019, 10:09 PM
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then turning it off is counter productive

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #14 of 28 Old 03-27-2019, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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I'll check for a vacuum leak this week/weekend and go from there. The videos showed two ways to adjust the injector slope... One was to disable the O2s and watch the widebands, the other was to adjust and monitor the PI correction. I think just watching the PI correction is easier and probably more accurate. I also realized watching the videos for the Nth time that I was not correctly making the change 'on the fly'. I was on the working page but not writing to the ECU..... "User Error".
Once I get this corrected and the hot starts should be good to go
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post #15 of 28 Old 03-27-2019, 08:49 AM
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I mustíve completely missed that in the video.
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post #16 of 28 Old 03-27-2019, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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Two different videos. One by Chris Richards did the disable of the 02. The PI-correction was by Michael Plummer. Both on YouTube.
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post #17 of 28 Old 03-27-2019, 09:50 AM
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I also realized watching the videos for the Nth time that I was not correctly making the change 'on the fly'. I was on the working page but not writing to the ECU..... "User Error".
Once I get this corrected and the hot starts should be good to go
that happens during tuning....

you should get it dialed in without issue

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #18 of 28 Old 03-27-2019, 10:41 AM
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then turning it off is counter productive


Well thanks for questioning me. I reached out to Chris and heís stated the PI Correction is a valid method. This saves a lot of time and is a lot easier.
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post #19 of 28 Old 03-27-2019, 12:59 PM
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Well thanks for questioning me. I reached out to Chris and heís stated the PI Correction is a valid method. This saves a lot of time and is a lot easier.
I HAVE no clue the design of prom efi, just using a little guessing on my part

It just seemed logical to use the correction as an aid

Hopefully this helps others as well

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #20 of 28 Old 03-27-2019, 07:34 PM
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For future users who find this thread these videos were very helpful for set up and tuning

https://www.youtube.com/user/almtyscuzzy/videos

Scroll down till you see the Variables list videos


OP have you watched this one?

1993 Cobra #1282
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post #21 of 28 Old 03-28-2019, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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OP have you watched this one?
Yep watched that one. I think I about watched them all, some several times it's what makes me think I have a vacuum leak as I believe the injector low slope shouldn't be that far off using the calculations in the Pro-M video.

Thanks for the info!
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post #22 of 28 Old 03-28-2019, 03:25 PM
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Add propane and watch the correction, if you suspect air leak
Simple

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #23 of 28 Old 03-31-2019, 07:41 PM
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Remove the oil fill cap, put your hand over it. If there is a suction, you have an intake gasket leak that will not show up with a smoke test. Ask me how I know.....
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post #24 of 28 Old 04-08-2019, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Remove the oil fill cap, put your hand over it. If there is a suction, you have an intake gasket leak that will not show up with a smoke test. Ask me how I know.....
I am hearing a whistle sound once the temp gets up to about 180. Sounds like a vacuum leak, which is why I need to keep looking for one. Can't tell where it's coming from. I'll have to try that and probably the propane test since I'm not getting any change in RPM with the carb cleaner. I have the PI correction closer with 1.0# most of the time and know I may have to re-adjust if I do find a vacuum leak.

I did take it out, up and down my road and MAN! it feels stronger then it ever has. Tested the 2-step which will take some practice. I had the laptop hooked up and the PI correction went as high up as 1.3## and as low as 0.9## while 'road' testing it.

Thanks everyone. We'll get there eventually
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post #25 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 08:08 PM
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I am hearing a whistle sound once the temp gets up to about 180. Sounds like a vacuum leak, which is why I need to keep looking for one. Can't tell where it's coming from. I'll have to try that and probably the propane test since I'm not getting any change in RPM with the carb cleaner. I have the PI correction closer with 1.0# most of the time and know I may have to re-adjust if I do find a vacuum leak.

I did take it out, up and down my road and MAN! it feels stronger then it ever has. Tested the 2-step which will take some practice. I had the laptop hooked up and the PI correction went as high up as 1.3## and as low as 0.9## while 'road' testing it.

Thanks everyone. We'll get there eventually
Get the eBay smoke machine. Worth it's weight in gold.
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post #26 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 08:14 PM
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You hear the whistle at 180 because rpm is dropping to your base setting whatever that is.

I don't know what tb you're using but the bbk, summit, professional products are known for whistling. Accufab tb all way.

Also you will get a whistle sound if your tb is bigger than your mass air meter

Correction on that oil fill cap suction. Remove the pcv valve from the system first. If you still have a suction, then it's an intake gasket.

30% is a lot.
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post #27 of 28 Old 04-11-2019, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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You hear the whistle at 180 because rpm is dropping to your base setting whatever that is.

I don't know what tb you're using but the bbk, summit, professional products are known for whistling. Accufab tb all way.

Also you will get a whistle sound if your tb is bigger than your mass air meter

Correction on that oil fill cap suction. Remove the pcv valve from the system first. If you still have a suction, then it's an intake gasket.

30% is a lot.
TB is a Summit tb. Yes this tb is bigger than the new Pro-M meter (and so is the C&L tube that I retained). And the sounds does seem to have started after I did the install, humm....
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post #28 of 28 Old 04-20-2019, 09:36 PM
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whistle is normal

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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