Where is my oil burning off too? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Question Where is my oil burning off too?

I just had to put a quart of the good ole 5w30(mobil 1) in my 98GT. This comes only a month after the last time I had to put a quart in the car(do in fact it was low). The underside of the car is dry and shows no sign of leaks or bad gaskets. There is no oil in my radiator resivoir. When on the dyno absolutely no smoke of any color came out of my tail pipes. I change my oil every 1 1/2 months 2 max. I put 32,000 on it last year. Can somebody give me some insight? Is this normal. The car get excellent gas milage(not sure if that matters or not in the instance?)

Thanks,

Jayson

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post #2 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 08:23 AM
 
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Welcome to the club. This is the reason that I started searching for Mustang sites in the first place. Posted the problem, and got a lot of "well, mine doesn't use oil" or "it must be blowing through the rings or valve seals". Like you said, no blue smoke, no leaks. Uses about 2 qts every 5K miles. I do know that the 4.6 is known to use oil, and I've seen a lot of older ones that obviously burn it through the combustion chamber; blue smoke. All I can figure is that the catalysts are efficient enough (there's two on each side, you know) to burn it off for a while, but sooner or later they'll get loaded and quit working. I've got 60K on mine now and so far no smoke that I can detect. I tried a little experiment this time. I went from 5w30 to 10w30 to see if the oil consumption would go down. Too early to tell so far.

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post #3 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 08:32 AM
 
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Same thing here. It used just under a quart for 3000 miles. That's really not bad. My car has 53K on it. No leaks, no smoke. I had a 88GT that used 2 quarts between changes. Never a leak or smoke either.
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post #4 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 11:04 AM
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Same here. I burn about 1.5 - 2 quarts every 3000 miles. I have been using Mobil 1 5w30 since I bought the car at 25,000 miles. I now have 57,000 miles. No smoke, no leaks...what gives???

1998 Black on Black GT 4.6L SOHC
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter; FRPP 3.73s; MagnaFlow Cat Back, K&N Air Filter; BBK 1.5" lowering springs
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post #5 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 11:30 AM
 
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Hmmmmmm...all '98 GT's. Is there a pattern here?
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post #6 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 12:40 PM
 
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I'm not sure about the 98s, but recently Ford was having problems at their casting plant. Apparently, some of the internal engine components had a high porosity (dead space) and they absorb oil over time.

Just a thought.
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post #7 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bierbelly
Hmmmmmm...all '98 GT's. Is there a pattern here?

My 96 Cobra will eat up 1-2 qts between changes as well. No leaks, no smoking. Beats me.

now voters are starting to wake up and hope there is no change
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post #8 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 12:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by GotPushrods?
My 96 Cobra will eat up 1-2 qts between changes as well. No leaks, no smoking. Beats me.
Ditto here with my 97 Cobra.
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post #9 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 01:08 PM
 
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i have a 96 gt and i use 5w30 mobil 1, i go through about a quart or more between oil changes. i started using it at 60k i have 69k now. i think it got worse with synthetic than regular oil. my oil pressure is low sometimes. the needle is on the N and sometimes on the R. this just recently started happning. I don't really care any more if it goes ill geta new one
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post #10 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 01:15 PM
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Re: Where is my oil burning off too?

Quote:
Originally posted by 98MODMTR
Can somebody give me some insight? Is this normal.
My Panoz has the '98 Cobra drivetrain and it does not burn or leak oil. I use Mobil 1 5-30 tri synthetic and change once per year 'cuz I only put about 3,000 per year on the car. Every time I drive the car it's at an autocross or "spirited" driving on the canyon roads near my home. I use the entire range of RPM and throttle and it always puts a big grin on my face.

However, if the car did consume a quart or two every 3,000 miles I wouldn't worry about it as long as it maintained full compression and didn't show any symptoms. As my doctor once said, "treat the patient, not the lab results". No symptoms, no worries.


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post #11 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 03:18 PM
 
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Same thing. Engine is so clean, the Virgin Mary would be proud to sit down to Thanksgiving diner inside the "lifter" valley. Still uses 1.5-2 qts per change. Was thinkin on switching back to regular oil, as I use Mobil 1 now. I've had problems with Mobile 1 in my 96 Miata, so maybe there's problems with it in the Mustang?

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post #12 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 03:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by No Control
Same thing. Engine is so clean, the Virgin Mary would be proud to sit down to Thanksgiving diner inside the "lifter" valley. Still uses 1.5-2 qts per change. Was thinkin on switching back to regular oil, as I use Mobil 1 now. I've had problems with Mobile 1 in my 96 Miata, so maybe there's problems with it in the Mustang?

Been there, done that. no diff with dino oil. It's not the Mobil 1 that's the problem. Like I said up top, I'm trying a heavier weight oil this change to see if that makes a difference.
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post #13 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bierbelly

I'm trying a heavier weight oil this change to see if that makes a difference.
Just be careful not to use too heavy a weight. Heavier weight oil generates more oil pressure, which can be good, but at a lower flow rate, which can be bad. A little heavier is probably OK but don't go overboard with a 20w-50 !

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post #14 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 03:32 PM
 
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Only went from 5w30 to 10w30. Didn't I read that the Cobra R uses Mobil 1 15w50? If I use 15w50, will my car run like a Cobra R?
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post #15 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 03:35 PM
 
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my 95 eats about 1-2 qts between changes. Have had it to ford and they thought it was the PCV valve being clogged. so they changed that, didnt work. I have the same problem, no leaks that I saw, and no colored smoke. Had it in the shop getting my trans worked on and they found out that the gasket around the oul pan was going. had it replaced and have not had the problem since. They found this out by putting a dye in when I had the oil changed and they were able to see where the leaks were coming from.
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post #16 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bierbelly
Only went from 5w30 to 10w30. Didn't I read that the Cobra R uses Mobil 1 15w50? If I use 15w50, will my car run like a Cobra R?
Isn't a 10w-30 the same as a 5w-30 at operating temperature? Both should be 30 weight when hot, which would be around 10-12 cSt. A 40 weight oil when hot is around 13-17 cSt and the 50 weight should be anything over 17 cSt, most are in the low to mid 20s.

Those numbers might be a little off, but I think they're in the right ballpark.

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post #17 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 03:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Clements


Isn't a 10w-30 the same as a 5w-30 at operating temperature? Both should be 30 weight when hot, which would be around 10-12 cSt. A 40 weight oil when hot is around 13-17 cSt and the 50 weight should be anything over 17 cSt, most are in the low to mid 20s.

Those numbers might be a little off, but I think they're in the right ballpark.
Yeah, I think you're right, it's the 30 weight that counts at operating temps. I don't expect to see a difference, but 10w30 was the only Mobil 1 grade higher than 5w30, without stepping up to the 15w50. don't know if I want to go that high without a more in depth research of the consequences. I believe that the newer specs, 5w20, are really only for CAFE gas mileage savings, as compared to the 5w30 recommended for the '98s, but I've also heard, FWIW, that the tighter tolerances in the mod engine require a lighter oil than older engines. So if I go to a heavier weight oil, am I taking a chance? Don't know. (My gut feeling is it should not really be a problem. And you know, it's ususally recommended to go to a heavier oil as an engine ages).
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post #18 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bierbelly
but 10w30 was the only Mobil 1 grade higher than 5w30, without stepping up to the 15w50.
I would guess that since 30w is a range from about 10 to 12 cSt, that the 5w-30 is near 10 where the 10w-30 is near 12. That would be a 20% difference, which may be significant. Worth a try anyway.

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post #19 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 04:28 PM
 
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Bierbelly let us know results of your expirement.
Seems like my baby likes oil as well, especially when taken to the track often.
BTW why it's bier and not a BEER.
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post #20 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 04:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew WOT
Bierbelly let us know results of your expirement.
Seems like my baby likes oil as well, especially when taken to the track often.
BTW why it's bier and not a BEER.
Yeah, I'll let you know. It's 'bier' since when I was on another site, 'beerbelly' was taken, and 'bier' is the german spelling. And we know that German bier is much better than any other beer.
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post #21 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 04:35 PM
 
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Hard to argue.
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post #22 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 04:46 PM
 
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Mine burns about 1 quart of M1 5w30 every 3000 miles as well. No smoke, no running problems, no oil on the ground/engine, everything seems fine. Still gets decent mpg too (~25-26). I started the 5w30 at 33K miles and am now at 75K with no noticeable problems, except for dirty hands every 3000 miles.
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post #23 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 06:22 PM
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my 96 Cobra with 34k will use a quart of Mobil 5W30 in 3000 miles. No smoke, no leaks, and I have an off road H, so I know that its not the convertors in my case. My compression is good, power is good, no noises or problems (other than transmissions and clutches), mileage hovers around 19-20, but that is my fault as I can get 23 if I really try.
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post #24 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 10:00 PM
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My oil usage seems to be proportional to the amount of "spirit" in my driving, and I like "spirit" in my driving. About 2 quarts between changes.

Also, it's important to check after the engine has been off for a while. I check mine first thing in the morning (I pop the hood when I get home and leave it proped open. That way, in the morning, I'll remember to check the oil first. CRS disease is a biotch )

I agree with Michael Clements, just keep a watch on the oil level. Get concerned when the car "ain't ridin' right."

Fred
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post #25 of 41 Old 05-09-2002, 10:57 PM
 
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2001 Cobra
20,000 miles on it
burn 1 - 1.5 qts per 3,000+/- miles, started around 10,000 miles
Amsoil xl-7500 5w-20
no cats, no smoke, don't think it is a big deal
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post #26 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 07:41 AM
 
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That's really interesting that you guys w/o cats aren't seeing blue smoke. Now, it's even more of a mystery as to where it's going? Evaporation? Gremlins?
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post #27 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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I too have no cats....and no blue smoke!
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post #28 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 09:12 AM
 
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Most likely it's going past the rings. Probably very hard rings that do not seat perfectly. The leak rate is probably so slow that blue smoke is not detectable. This is a Ford thing. My 5.0 88GT had the exact same thing and so did many 5.0 guys I spoke to.
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post #29 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 09:17 AM
 
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It is in the combustion chamber...

Modern cars have such advanced spark and combustion chamber/piston dynamics that even moderate amounts of oil will burn with practically nothing coming out of the tailpipe. The cat really has nothing to do with it.

Bierbelly:

The vis of 5-dub vs 10-dub 30 isn't significantly different at 100 degrees C. The 10 uses less VI improver, so may have more thermal stability under stress.
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post #30 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 09:20 AM
 
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Re: It is in the combustion chamber...

Quote:
Originally posted by Cobra'03
Bierbelly:

The vis of 5-dub vs 10-dub 30 isn't significantly different at 100 degrees C. The 10 uses less VI improver, so may have more thermal stability under stress.
Would it be safe to go to 15w50? Downsides?
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post #31 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 09:47 AM
 
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Re: Re: It is in the combustion chamber...

Quote:
Originally posted by bierbelly


Would it be safe to go to 15w50? Downsides?
Why even bother? It's a lot easier to add a quart between changes then swap to another viscosity and worry whether or not it will be OK for your engine in the long run.
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post #32 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 09:50 AM
 
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Cool no cats - smoke

Hmmm... A friend of mine has a 98 cobra NA (runs strong as hell - low 12s on 315 nittos) and we've both noted on each others cars that there is some blue smoke puffing out of both tail pipes when we let *off* the gas. Nothing during acceleration (save for my puff of black smoke in the begining - mmmmm, fuel).

I used to go through quiet a bit of oil (I'm guess more so on a blower car???) but when I switched to mobil 10w40 everything seemed to be okay.

I was surfing around this board a few weeks ago and ran across a post concerning the intake sucking oil in from the valve cover breather tubes. I snagged a URL from there (I can't remember who's page it is - but the pictures were great!!!) and whipped up this little rig on my snake. I'll tell you what, the catcher-tube-thingy is over a third of the way full after only 1 month of weekend driving (maybe 600-700 miles at the most?) As it turns out, there was quiet a bit of oil being sucked into the intake on that tube...

here is the URL to this dudes pictures. Again, they were a great help and I wish I remembered who they were from so credit could be given.

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/home...humbnails.html

Ah well...
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post #33 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 10:30 AM
 
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yeah that's mine.
how's it working for you?

i empty the thing every oil change, usually about 1/2 full.
replace the little filter element every once in a while when it looks real dirty.
Note:
01 Cobra stock vs 01 GT rebuilt
-01 Cobra burns oil and fills separator up
-01 GT didn't burn as much oil and didn't fill separator up as much

Maybe the rings, I used CP pistons and their rings on the GT rebuild. Sounded like a diesel when started cold due to shorter skirt and lighter material of the piston. But it didn't seem to burn oil.
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post #34 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 10:31 AM
 
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Very interesting....
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post #35 of 41 Old 05-10-2002, 11:46 AM
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Re: It is in the combustion chamber...

I was just thinking that it may actually be beneficial to suck a small amount of oil into the intake manifold. The '93-'95 RX-7 twin turbos used to mix oil with the fuel in the injectors at high RPM / WOT. I believe the purpose was to improve lubrication or cooling or something like that. But the point is, they burned oil not due to weak seals, but because the engineers designed oil mix into the fuel injection when the engine was in "balls to the wall" mode.

Maybe that's just a rotary thing, or maybe there could be some benefit on a regular 4-stroke V-8 like the Ford engine.

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