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post #1 of 21 Old 05-03-2002, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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? for 2V's going N/A for big HP-The Game

I am dreaming of some day installing a P1SC on the car but want to stay N/A for a while since I still have a warranty. My question is if I were to pull the heads and send them out for a P&P and then get some cams, what then becomes my bottle neck? The intake or the exhaust headers?

I am not really interested in going long tubes so if P&P'd heads won't benefit me unless I do longtubes, SC here I come.

I would also imagine, I would need a tune, bigger TB? and maybe some injectors if I go wild but just how far can you go with a 2V N/A? How about some budget numbers to get there to if you have them.

The SC is looking pretty good right now for total cost but I think I could still keep the warranty intact with just a few bolt ons.

Help would be appreciated.

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post #2 of 21 Old 05-03-2002, 02:31 PM
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If you plan on doing a S/C you need to do everything to inprove teh breathing of your engine to really get great #s from your setup. I am not saying that you won't make killer #s the way it is because you will make killer power. If you are planning on doing the supercharger I would say get your heads done, get Mod Max valves & valve springs, get a set of blower cams, long tube headers, and a bullit intake w/ the new acufab T/B. With these you will have a good running N/A setup then you put some boost to it and you will have a killer.


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post #3 of 21 Old 05-04-2002, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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I guess what I really need to ask is if I port the heads, get the cams, new TB mass air and all, will the OEM exhaust manifolds kill all of my potential gains?

I really do not want to do longtubes with the new emissions BS starting here in Dallas.
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-04-2002, 09:01 AM
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The exhaust manifolds on our cars are horrible. It is like trying to exhale through a Pixie Stick.

At the very least, I would put some JBA shorties on there, they are a great set of headers and should be sufficient for your application.

What is Texas doing now that you have to worry about emissions?

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post #5 of 21 Old 05-04-2002, 11:42 AM
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RavenGT,
You say our exhaust manifold is horrible. I have heard numerous
conflicting opinions on that. In fact, on a stock N/A engine switching to shorty headers I have seen posts saying any where from 3.5 to 5 HP gain. I have also talked to several speed shops that told me that the stock exhaust system is actually pretty efficient. From what I have heard the more you mod the engine the greater the benefit of changing the exhaust.

I am right now considering installing JBA's w/my headswap.
Decisions...decisions.

Doug

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post #6 of 21 Old 05-04-2002, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Raven, I am glad you chimed in as it seems you are getting some good NA times and hp numbers. Texas has adopted a new emissions plan that 95 and older vehicles go on a roller and run up to a speed and they check tailpipe emissions. 96 and newer cars have to be hooked up to a computer to check for o2 operations and the visual inspection is very tough. They are failing for open air filter elements. The TNRCC is also setting up infrared stations at on ramps to read your tailpipe and license plates. If you are a gross polluter, they mail you a notice to get the car inspected within 30 days regardless of the date on your sticker. Price for an inspection has also gone from $13 to $40 per year. If you fail an inspection, you then have to show receipts for a given $ amount of emissions repairs and retest for free. If you spend $X, then you are exempt. The whole plan is major BS.

As for the stock manifolds being effecient, you stated for a stock NA motor. The mods I mentioned are definitely not stock anymore. I am guessing that by P&P the heads and cams with a larger TB, you are upping the airflow into the combustion chamber by 15-20% right? This would tell me that the manifolds might be a restriction.

Where I am going with this is that SC's might not pass the visual here in Texas.....if this program lasts. I am not really interested in spending 2-3 thousand dollars to have to deal with the yearly test. I am beginning to think about a C5 or Z06 that might have enough HP to keep me happy w/o mods.

I hate having so many darn choices and then have the TNRCC limit them. I guess they want us all to drive electric cars.
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post #7 of 21 Old 05-04-2002, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by doug97gt
RavenGT,
You say our exhaust manifold is horrible. I have heard numerous
conflicting opinions on that. In fact, on a stock N/A engine switching to shorty headers I have seen posts saying any where from 3.5 to 5 HP gain. I have also talked to several speed shops that told me that the stock exhaust system is actually pretty efficient. From what I have heard the more you mod the engine the greater the benefit of changing the exhaust.

I am right now considering installing JBA's w/my headswap.
Decisions...decisions.

Doug
The shops that told you the stock exhaust equipment is sufficient, should go back and start seeling remote control cars, and stay out of the automobile performance industry. The stock "logs" that Ford uses for our manifolds are horrible. Then the colosally restrictive intermediate pipe, I won't even go into that debate. The stock mufflers are actually pretty decent, but the pipe ID and the everything forward is garbage.

As far the Texas Board of Idiots goes, and their new ways of handcuffing, err, I mean fooking the consumer, err I mean regulating the emissions of vehicles, I can't comment on that, as I am not affected by the nazi's then govern your state.

But, the JBA's I believe, do carry a CARB certification, I could be wrong though. So they should pass the visual and anything else thrown at them. All I can say is that I almost garauntee that my cammed 2V is blowing less shiit into the air than that POS 97 Saturn with the oil burning problem that you always see in front of you on the highway!

good luck,
joe

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post #8 of 21 Old 05-04-2002, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenGT
The exhaust manifolds on our cars are horrible. It is like trying to exhale through a Pixie Stick.

At the very least, I would put some JBA shorties on there, they are a great set of headers and should be sufficient for your application.

What is Texas doing now that you have to worry about emissions?

joe
I agree with Joe 100% here to the guy who said he read posts saying that only 3-5 rwhp was gained, well that is true on a stock motor but if you go full tilt like the originator of this post states he wants to do. Replace the manifolds, I will say that stock mufflers are good to about 300RWHP, this was told to me by Barry Shepard and proved to be true on my car as well. With Stock mufflers I ran 12.7s switched to MAC Catback and the times remained the same. I did gain 2 MPH when running on the bottle though.


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post #9 of 21 Old 05-05-2002, 09:39 PM
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Aggie, thanks for the Mac H, works very well. This is what I did since you have a silver one too. Flip your front plate backwards, and go to Pecker boys and get a tinted license plate cover for the back. If you still get pegged, then we all need to start looking to a Radar jamming company to manufacturer a device which will enable you to jam or absorb/alter the frequency of the beam.

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post #10 of 21 Old 05-05-2002, 10:21 PM
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You might as well go for broke if you plan on doing heads and cams. Althhough a dealer might not be able to detect head porting easily, I think the camming will give it away, so there goes the warranty anyway.


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post #11 of 21 Old 05-05-2002, 11:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenGT


The shops that told you the stock exhaust equipment is sufficient, should go back and start seeling remote control cars, and stay out of the automobile performance industry. The stock "logs" that Ford uses for our manifolds are horrible. Then the colosally restrictive intermediate pipe, I won't even go into that debate. The stock mufflers are actually pretty decent, but the pipe ID and the everything forward is garbage.

As far the Texas Board of Idiots goes, and their new ways of handcuffing, err, I mean fooking the consumer, err I mean regulating the emissions of vehicles, I can't comment on that, as I am not affected by the nazi's then govern your state.

But, the JBA's I believe, do carry a CARB certification, I could be wrong though. So they should pass the visual and anything else thrown at them. All I can say is that I almost garauntee that my cammed 2V is blowing less shiit into the air than that POS 97 Saturn with the oil burning problem that you always see in front of you on the highway!

good luck,
joe
5 hp gain with shorty headers. Maybe 10 hp with a Prochanber and cat-back. Hell, I dyno'd 6 more hp with Prochamber and MAC cat-back compared to another Procharged 2000GT with stock exhaust. I've never seen any really impressive gains on '99 up GTs with exhaust mods. The stock exhaust set-up is pretty decent.
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post #12 of 21 Old 05-06-2002, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by biffstang99
The stock exhaust set-up is pretty decent.
Great thing about America, is you are entitled to your opinion.

I still think it sucks.
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-06-2002, 09:01 AM
 
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Raven!

My other car is a 97 Saturn!

Was that you I was blowing smoke all over?


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post #14 of 21 Old 05-06-2002, 09:18 AM
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I tend to agree with Joe on this one. Although as a blower car guy, I don't get much excited about mods that add 5-10 HP, especially if the car gets louder.

As my car got stronger along the way with different mods, I believe the order of restriction on my car was (in this order) catted h pipe, log mainfolds, and finally the stock catback which I changed out around the 400 RW mark. Maybe I would have gained a few ponies if I had changed out the catback a little sooner, but it was relatively quiet, and low RPM TQ was good.

I get a kick out of these 200-250 RW cars with stock log manifolds, stock H pipes, and aftermarket catbacks reporting these big HP increases.

Ralph Greene

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post #15 of 21 Old 05-07-2002, 01:22 AM
 
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Re: ? for 2V's going N/A for big HP-The Game

My question is if I were to pull the heads and send them out for a P&P and then get some cams, what then becomes my bottle neck? The intake or the exhaust headers?

The stock manifolds. Get a decent set of shorty headers. You already have Mac components from the manifolds back so just add the aftermarket headers. Also, the stock intake will flow enough air to support 290-300 rwhp. Not much beyond that but it's really not that bad.

I would also imagine, I would need a tune, bigger TB? and maybe some injectors if I go wild but just how far can you go with a 2V N/A? How about some budget numbers to get there to if you have them.

Conflicting statement. "if I go wild, how far can you go" and "budget numbers" just don't mix. With just ported heads you don't necessarily need larger injectors, a bigger TB or a custom tune. Plenty of people getting over 285 rwhp with stock injectors, TB and computer calibration.
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post #16 of 21 Old 05-07-2002, 02:21 AM
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The stock manifolds arnt that bad, take a look a stock 5.0 manifolds, those arnt worth their weight in rust. But I agree, if you doing p&p heads, cams, tb, ect, might as well get headers(actually I would get the headers befor the TB).
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post #17 of 21 Old 05-07-2002, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenGT


The shops that told you the stock exhaust equipment is sufficient, should go back and start seeling remote control cars, and stay out of the automobile performance industry. The stock "logs" that Ford uses for our manifolds are horrible. Then the colosally restrictive intermediate pipe, I won't even go into that debate. The stock mufflers are actually pretty decent, but the pipe ID and the everything forward is garbage.
The shops might have been comparing stock to the frpp shorties, from what I have heard/seen they are hardly better then the stock manifolds. JBA's, on the other hand, are supposed to be the best as far as shorties go. I just went for lt's, but to each his own.
Dan

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post #18 of 21 Old 05-07-2002, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by o0Dan0o
The stock manifolds arnt that bad, take a look a stock 5.0 manifolds, those arnt worth their weight in rust. But I agree, if you doing p&p heads, cams, tb, ect, might as well get headers(actually I would get the headers befor the TB).
Dan
Stock 302HO Manifolds were a tubular steel exhaust not molded cast iron not (even heavy enough to be boat anchors) that the 4.6s come with. Again FRRP Headers might only give a few ponies at peak but 5-10 HP throughout the entire RPM range is worth more than you think.


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post #19 of 21 Old 05-07-2002, 10:50 AM
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o0Dan0o, I believe the 5.0 HO "shorties" are way better than the exhaust manifolds that come on the 4.6.
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post #20 of 21 Old 05-07-2002, 02:02 PM
 
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If you don't think the stock manifolds are restrictive then you've never seen them before.

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post #21 of 21 Old 05-07-2002, 02:43 PM
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The stock 302 manifolds we took off my friends 92 5.0 lx were horrible, small primaries that were more squar then round, and the compression bends looked extremely restrictive, they couldnt even compare to the bbk shorties we replaced them with. I havent goten a very close look at my manifolds yet, but my general impression is that the 5.0's are worse.

Im sure the frpp's are better then stock, but I wouldnt waste my money on them. I agree that anyone doing the headswap should get new headers, I would either get JBA's or long tubes(actually I did get BBK long tubes, and they go on this summer with the head swap). If you going to spend that much money and time to get them in, why settle for second best?
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