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post #1 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 03:04 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation $730 for gears! Hell nah!!!!

I went today to a highly recomended shop and the guy qouted me $730 for Ford 4.10 gears, 23 tooth speddo gear and labor. Thats it!!! Then he said an extra $500 to electonically correct my speedometer. I laughed at him and walked out. Dude must be crazy!!!
How much for you guys?
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post #2 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
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Oh also do you guys run tranny coolers with your new gears?


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post #3 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 03:38 AM
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Lone Star Performance in Dallas charged me $175 and took a few hours, 4.10's and speedo gear also! Some world class guys working there, i would recommend them to any and everyone!


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post #4 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 08:00 AM
 
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Thats insane I hope he was going to give you a new rear end for that price. Got mine done for $175 and they gave me the speedo gear. Good luck on your search.
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post #5 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 09:25 AM
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ISU, for one that shop didn't know what they were talking about...The 99+ stangs didn't use a speedo gear, it's electronic and you need a speed cal or chip to fix your speedo...and $500 to fix it electronically?? That's just plain nuts...and $730 for gears and install? You can get the gears for $150 of gefracing.com and the install shouldn't be more than $200 for everything...

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post #6 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 09:39 AM
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I had 4.10's put in about a month ago.

4.10's...$159, Gene Evans Ford
Dallas Mustang Speed Cal...$107 shipped
Gear install with synthethic lube...$90!!!

total = $356!

For your price, you could trailer your car out here to the guy who did mine and still come in lower than that! If anyone in the PA area needs some one to do gears, this guy is the best around. My factory gears were set up at .015 backlash, he set my 4.10's up at .008! They are perfect, no noise what so ever!

My advice....definitely keep looking around, that price is insane! I know I got a deal on the install, but you can do way better than that!

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post #7 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 09:59 AM
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ISUPonyBoy - I have a guy up here in the Schaumberg area that does great work. $150 for the labor of the gear install...and I think he wants $100 to install the SpeedCal, but he might negotiate on that. You just buy the gears from GEFord.com. If you want his email send me a PM or an email.

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post #8 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 10:21 AM
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I just got mine 3.73 put in a week ago. He completely rebulit my rear end for $210 + gears $175 = $385. Sounds like he was trying to rebuild your rear end in another way.
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post #9 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 01:10 PM
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There is a place here in San Antonio (Mustang Extreme Racing) that quoted me $425 for the labor plus FMS gears (3.73s), with me getting the speedcal on my own. They said they would warranty the labor and any gear whining issues, but since the FMS gears don't have a warranty anymore (according to him), they could not warranty the parts. But if I supplied my own gears, they would not warranty their own labor either. He also said they did not routinely rebuild/replace the rear axle bearings and all that stuff unless necessary, not sure if that is included in the flat $425 fee. Seems a little odd that they won't warranty the installation if you provided the gears, but I guess they aren't hurting for business so they can make demands like that. So out the door, I would be paying $425 + $80-100 for the speedcal. LAter.
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post #10 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shane97Cobra
ISUPonyBoy - I have a guy up here in the Schaumberg area that does great work. $150 for the labor of the gear install...and I think he wants $100 to install the SpeedCal, but he might negotiate on that. You just buy the gears from GEFord.com. If you want his email send me a PM or an email.
If it is Brett Harmon, from Friendly Ford. I would highly recommend HIM, not THEM.

He did my 3.73s along time ago, when I was stupid enough to think those were the best gear for the street.

Silent, and accurate install. Brett does great work.

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post #11 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 01:23 PM
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On a gear change parts and labor should be around 500.00 or less, anything else and your getting screwed. Try another Performance Shop...

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post #12 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Trust me I am going somewhere else, I knew that was totally nutz!!! Just thought I would tell ya how crazy someplaces are, but I am sure ya'll knew that, I just could not believe he was serious.

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post #13 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 01:56 PM
 
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My gear was 161 shipped from Motive Gear.

125 for the install at brandon ford.

Done in 1 hour with no whine.
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post #14 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 02:01 PM
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Was it AFM?
post #15 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 02:03 PM
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My bird has an IRS and MV Performance down here (only about 15 minutes away) charged me $250 for labor and my 4.10's have yet to give me any problems. Speedo tooth,gears and the install should run way under $500

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post #16 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenGT


If it is Brett Harmon, from Friendly Ford. I would highly recommend HIM, not THEM.

He did my 3.73s along time ago, when I was stupid enough to think those were the best gear for the street.

Silent, and accurate install. Brett does great work.

Joe
It is Brett Harmon...he's not with Friendly any more. He uses a friends shop in the evenings to do work. If I am not doing the work on my car he is the only one that does. He stands behind his work.
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post #17 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 02:39 PM
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By the way, the speed cal install is very easy. If you are mechanically inclined at all I promise you can handle it. It's definitely not worth $100 to have it installed. It took me about a half hour and I took my good old time!

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post #18 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shane97Cobra


It is Brett Harmon...he's not with Friendly any more. He uses a friends shop in the evenings to do work. If I am not doing the work on my car he is the only one that does. He stands behind his work.
It is good to hear he left that shiity dealership.He is very trustworthy, I would go back to him in a heartbeat. However, I am now 1200 miles from him, so I think I will stay local.

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post #19 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 05:35 PM
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Not only is Bret highly skilled, he is a nice person to boot. I busted my tranny and he moved all the cars out of the garage just to get my car running the next day. You can't ask for a nicer person.
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post #20 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
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Where does this awesome guy work now!? He sounds like a cousin of Jeebus or something.
Thanx,
John

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post #21 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 06:11 PM
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ISU... was the place that wanted to charge you that much AFM?
post #22 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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No, it was Chicago Driveline and SpeedShop. I have never been there nor will I go back, not just cause of the price but I think they are idiots just by looking around their shop. Picture this: 12 monkeys, 6 cars, and a whole lotta crap!

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post #23 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 06:31 PM
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Did you try AFM in Clinton, Il? I heard they do really good work
post #24 of 31 Old 04-26-2002, 10:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ISUPonyBoy
No, it was Chicago Driveline and SpeedShop. I have never been there nor will I go back, not just cause of the price but I think they are idiots just by looking around their shop. Picture this: 12 monkeys, 6 cars, and a whole lotta crap!
I talked to Street Stuff in Addison and they wanted ~$750, but they were going to replace all the bearings too. It is still WAY too much, so I'm waiting awhile. I think I'll track down this Brett Harmon when it's time.
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post #25 of 31 Old 04-27-2002, 12:58 AM
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Well a lot of this depends on the shop and the area where you live. First off, remember that shops are in business to make money. That is afterall, the captialist way.

Also remember that you get what you pay for. A lot of places do a gear change and simply smear some RTV on the differential cover and smack things together. Some don't even bother to replace the bearings and races.

The shop I've been helping out at for the past few weeks does lots of gear changes. They replace gear lube, friction modifier, use only Motorsport gears, replace front and rear races, front pinion seal, and install a rear differential cover gasket. They also install the correct speedometer gear. They charge around $650 for the whole deal.

On cars that require an Abbot box they charge a little more. $120 for the box, and then another $75.00 to put it in. So a rear gear change then runs around $845.

On cars with an IRS you have to drop the exhaust, which doesn't take terribly long, but the removal of the differential pumpkin does add about another 3/4 hour to the job when you consider indexing the driveshaft and the half-shafts. So an IRS car is around $957.50 give or take.

What I don't understand is why people are so loathe to pay a shop to do quality work? Cheaper is not always better. A lesson in simple economics....

A gear change takes about the same amount of time for any shop. So the difference in the amount of cost would be deterined largely on the amount of money paid to the mechanics.

A bad shop gets few repeat customers. Therefore they get less business. In an attempt to get more business from other shops that do better work they have to charge less. Since they do less business they cannot afford to pay their employees as well.

Better skilled employees will move to a shop that can afford to pay them more for their skills.

A good shop has lots of business. They have lots of people lining up outside for their services. With an increase in demand comes an increase prices. Simple supply and demand. A shop only has limited resources. As demand goes up, their ability to supply those demands decreases. The shop earns its reputation on the good skills of the employees. The better employees get more work and consequently better pay. So the shops costs increase.

So the moreal of the story is that if you want good work you should be more than willing to pay a decent price for it. I'm not saying you should set yourself up to be ripped off, but a decent shop isn't going to be cheap.

If you do find a good shop that is relatively affordable you should reward them with referrals.

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post #26 of 31 Old 04-27-2002, 01:02 AM
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WAAAYY too much man, go somewhere else.
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post #27 of 31 Old 04-27-2002, 09:07 AM
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We usually charge $250 for installation (includes Royal Purple Synthetic 75W90). We sell our FRPP 3.73/4.10 Gears for $150.00 and a 23-tooth Speedo gear is $12.95. I know I can't help with installation (one helluva a drive) but give me a call and I can help you with the parts.

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post #28 of 31 Old 04-27-2002, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PDub6s
We usually charge $250 for installation (includes Royal Purple Synthetic 75W90). We sell our FRPP 3.73/4.10 Gears for $150.00 and a 23-tooth Speedo gear is $12.95. I know I can't help with installation (one helluva a drive) but give me a call and I can help you with the parts.
I'm just curious do you guys replace the front and rear bearings and races, or reuse the old ones? Also do you put in a new pinion seal or reuse the old one? What about the differential cover? Do you use a gasket or RTV?

I'm trying to figure out what the difference in price is between shops.

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post #29 of 31 Old 04-27-2002, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Christopher Ihara
Well a lot of this depends on the shop and the area where you live. First off, remember that shops are in business to make money. That is afterall, the captialist way.

Also remember that you get what you pay for. A lot of places do a gear change and simply smear some RTV on the differential cover and smack things together. Some don't even bother to replace the bearings and races.

The shop I've been helping out at for the past few weeks does lots of gear changes. They replace gear lube, friction modifier, use only Motorsport gears, replace front and rear races, front pinion seal, and install a rear differential cover gasket. They also install the correct speedometer gear. They charge around $650 for the whole deal.

On cars that require an Abbot box they charge a little more. $120 for the box, and then another $75.00 to put it in. So a rear gear change then runs around $845.

On cars with an IRS you have to drop the exhaust, which doesn't take terribly long, but the removal of the differential pumpkin does add about another 3/4 hour to the job when you consider indexing the driveshaft and the half-shafts. So an IRS car is around $957.50 give or take.

What I don't understand is why people are so loathe to pay a shop to do quality work? Cheaper is not always better. A lesson in simple economics....

A gear change takes about the same amount of time for any shop. So the difference in the amount of cost would be deterined largely on the amount of money paid to the mechanics.

A bad shop gets few repeat customers. Therefore they get less business. In an attempt to get more business from other shops that do better work they have to charge less. Since they do less business they cannot afford to pay their employees as well.

Better skilled employees will move to a shop that can afford to pay them more for their skills.

A good shop has lots of business. They have lots of people lining up outside for their services. With an increase in demand comes an increase prices. Simple supply and demand. A shop only has limited resources. As demand goes up, their ability to supply those demands decreases. The shop earns its reputation on the good skills of the employees. The better employees get more work and consequently better pay. So the shops costs increase.

So the moreal of the story is that if you want good work you should be more than willing to pay a decent price for it. I'm not saying you should set yourself up to be ripped off, but a decent shop isn't going to be cheap.

If you do find a good shop that is relatively affordable you should reward them with referrals.
Chris,
I normally listen to what you say and really listen to it. I feel you are extremely knowledgeable, and that most of us, if not all of us can learn from your experience. That said...

I think the moral of your story above is horse ****. You don't have to expect to pay more for a great job. Without customers the shops cease to exist. If you control the demand, you control the price. Alot of shops out there, will charge an exuberant amount, simply from the fact that they don't do alot of them, and they view them as a hassle. So does this mean they will provide a precision install, because they raped me on the price? hell no!

Brett Harmon, for instance, did my first set of gears at a DEALERSHIP, and it still only cost me $300.00 after the price of gears themselves. Nothing was reused. all new bearing, new seals, new fluids, new gasket. One of the best I have seen.

If more and more people come to learn to expect outrageous prices for work, then it will become the norm to pay it. Screw that. Control the demand, and you control the price. There are alot of shops who do great work for a lot less, simply because they are good, and they have an honorable work ethic. They should be the ones who people take their cars to.

Sorry for the rant. But HIGH PRICED shops, and outlets have got to be dismissed, they are getting away with rape. And it all starts on the lower levels.

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post #30 of 31 Old 04-27-2002, 12:36 PM
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RTV is used on differential cover, pinion seal is replaced if needed. Our service department actually does the installs (Parkway Ford). I'am sure there are many individuals and shops that do it on a regular basis and have very competitives rates that I'am sure include replacement of bearings, etc... We basically charge $250.00 for a "gear install" if any bearings needed to be replaced they could most likely include the labor but the parts would be at the customers expense. All in all I would say that $730.00 dollars is freak'in high.

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post #31 of 31 Old 04-27-2002, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Christopher Ihara
Well a lot of this depends on the shop and the area where you live. First off, remember that shops are in business to make money. That is afterall, the captialist way.

Also remember that you get what you pay for. A lot of places do a gear change and simply smear some RTV on the differential cover and smack things together. Some don't even bother to replace the bearings and races.

The shop I've been helping out at for the past few weeks does lots of gear changes. They replace gear lube, friction modifier, use only Motorsport gears, replace front and rear races, front pinion seal, and install a rear differential cover gasket. They also install the correct speedometer gear. They charge around $650 for the whole deal.

On cars that require an Abbot box they charge a little more. $120 for the box, and then another $75.00 to put it in. So a rear gear change then runs around $845.

On cars with an IRS you have to drop the exhaust, which doesn't take terribly long, but the removal of the differential pumpkin does add about another 3/4 hour to the job when you consider indexing the driveshaft and the half-shafts. So an IRS car is around $957.50 give or take.

What I don't understand is why people are so loathe to pay a shop to do quality work? Cheaper is not always better. A lesson in simple economics....

A gear change takes about the same amount of time for any shop. So the difference in the amount of cost would be deterined largely on the amount of money paid to the mechanics.

A bad shop gets few repeat customers. Therefore they get less business. In an attempt to get more business from other shops that do better work they have to charge less. Since they do less business they cannot afford to pay their employees as well.

Better skilled employees will move to a shop that can afford to pay them more for their skills.

A good shop has lots of business. They have lots of people lining up outside for their services. With an increase in demand comes an increase prices. Simple supply and demand. A shop only has limited resources. As demand goes up, their ability to supply those demands decreases. The shop earns its reputation on the good skills of the employees. The better employees get more work and consequently better pay. So the shops costs increase.

So the moreal of the story is that if you want good work you should be more than willing to pay a decent price for it. I'm not saying you should set yourself up to be ripped off, but a decent shop isn't going to be cheap.

If you do find a good shop that is relatively affordable you should reward them with referrals.
Chris,

While I agree that you get what you pay for, and in the case of the shop that you are helping out definitely goes above and beyond what most "Gear Changes" entail, but $650.00 to do gears is insane. $199.00 for the gear at the most expensive place, a complete installation kit from Ratech which incles bolts, all bearings except for the axle bearings, gasket, pinion seal, pinion and carrier shims, nut, crush collar, and cover gasket is $89.00 for a total of $288.00. That means your shop is charging $362.00 for labor alone. The job should take roughly 3 hours, maybe 4 if they run into problems for a person who is experienced in doing gears with the proper tools, with smoke breaks. So with 4 hours of labor at 362, we are talking 90/hr, way too much money. It's not like replacing the races are that hard, it takes a full 10 minutes to do the big pinion bearing race, similar amount of time to do the smaller one. Really, it's just a matter of pulling them out and tapping in the new ones which unless they are gouged, or scratched really don't need to be done in the first place IMHO. At that price, you might as well pony up the extra 200 or so and buy a complete rearend from FRPP with your choice of gear installed. The gasket's arent exactly rocket science to do and are more of a PITA to use and you have to scrape them damn things off everytime you pull the cover, RTV works great and shouldn't be looked down on just because its RTV. Alot of times the scraping of the old gasket gouges the hosing enough to create it's own leaks which the gasket will not seal so you end up using RTV anyway. The gaskets come with the rebuild kits anyway so its not like it's an added cost, but it does take time for the permatex gasket maker to dry off so you cant just slap the cover on and go so that adds time to the "LABOR" portion of the job i guess. Speedo gear's are about what? 20 bucks? Install is 90 seconds worth of wrenching since the car is already up in the air, its one bolt and 1 clip.

In the end, it comes down to what the customer will pay, just like all other capitalist adventures, its only worth what someone is willing to pay and I refuse to pay 650.00 for something that should cost about $550.00 MAX with all the above parts installed which is probably overkill on just a gear swap, maybe you they should call it a rearend rebuild since thats basically what you are getting minus new axle bearing and seals.

For $650.00, you might as well buy the tools yourself, read the tech articles on the Corral and SSOTN and do it in your garage and make some money on the side doing gear swaps. Gears are not by any means hard to do, its just tool intensive and most of the tools will be used again and again doing mods to a car.

I'll tell ya what, you will make more money charging people 450 for a complete gear swap instead of 650 in pure volume alone.

JMHO,

James Adkins


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