Those with forged motors, please look inside - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Those with forged motors, please look inside

As some of you know, I blew up this past February... now that I have the suspension that I want, I'm ready to get the built shortblock that I need.

I'm wondering where you got your shoftblock built and any kind of pricing information (if you don't want to post it here, send it to me personally at: [email protected]) and I'll keep it confidential.

I'm interested in seeing various combinations (like did you go with the Cobra crank, "x" rods, "x" pistons (specs preferred), and anything else. I'm also interested in your feedback regarding the vendor that you picked to do your shortblock (delivery time and what your overall thought is/was).

I'm on a tight budget (as most of us are) and am shopping around for my needs so this information would be really helpful.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tim


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post #2 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 07:58 PM
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post #3 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 07:59 PM
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Tim,

I haven't blown my motor up yet.. but have been checking into what's available out there. So far... I like what DSS and what Houston Performance have to offer.

The DSS block is 3500$ and lncludes forged pistons and rods, as well as ARP Head studs and Mains. They use a stock crank....

What I like about Houston Performance, is that they use a forged Cobra crank, forged pistons and rods. All for only 3000$ It doesn't say on their website if they include ARP studs for the heads and mains.

To me, I know I will buy something that I want to be as durable as possible... so a Cobra crank, AND ARP rod, head, and main studs are really important.

Guess you'll have to call around a bit to find out if Houston includes some of that stuff..

Later,

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post #4 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 08:09 PM
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oh yea again!

Hey tim, add to my lis the ARP main studs...forgot them. I already had head studs though.....
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post #5 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 08:17 PM
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Thumbs up Tim

Stay away from DSS. I have heard about way too many problems with their motors to even begin to mention. If you are going to go out-of-state, I would recommend TBP. 7s 8s 9s...

-Nate
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post #6 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 08:27 PM
 
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Has anyone tried the SHM econoblock. You can get them for around $2800 delivered. I have installed a couple and put some major boost to them and they work great. A friend has also used one and loves it, I've heard good things from anyone who buys them.
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post #7 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by scottbeer
Has anyone tried the SHM econoblock. You can get them for around $2800 delivered. I have installed a couple and put some major boost to them and they work great. A friend has also used one and loves it, I've heard good things from anyone who buys them.
Please expand on "major boost"... how much is "major"? Also how long did it take from the time you ordered it till it arrived? 3 weeks, 10 weeks, 2 years? Just wondering....

Thanks everyone for your input... this is great!
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post #8 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 08:31 PM
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Just out of curiousity, how difficult would it be to build your own? Say I had experience building pushrod 5.0L shortblocks, how different would it be to put together a 4.6L?

Anybody done it themselves?

Thanks,

SJ

4vGT
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post #9 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 08:40 PM
 
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I don't know for sure but I think they are max two weeks. I work there and I personally saw 2 on the shelf ready to go. I've heard that one customer got it in three days. As far as boost levels - one had 16 psi put to it and ran hard for three months now and still problem free. I would feel comfortable putting more than that to it with an intercooler, 104, proper dyno and then a track tune. If it was for a daily driver I still stick to my 10psi safety zone. I've never seen any trouble with this kind of boost on a street car.
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post #10 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by scottbeer
I don't know for sure but I think they are max two weeks. I work there and I personally saw 2 on the shelf ready to go. I've heard that one customer got it in three days. As far as boost levels - one had 16 psi put to it and ran hard for three months now and still problem free. I would feel comfortable putting more than that to it with an intercooler, 104, proper dyno and then a track tune. If it was for a daily driver I still stick to my 10psi safety zone. I've never seen any trouble with this kind of boost on a street car.
NEW
66000 500HP Econo Shortblock
(for 1996-2002 Mustang GT)
- New Cast Block
- Forged Rods
- Forged Pistons
- Cast Crank
- Main Studs
- Moly Rings
- Oil Pump, Pickup
$2995 Complete, delivered to your door *note, does not contain headstuds or gaskets

Is this the one you're referring to? I wonder how much that cast crank can really handle? Anyone making serious hp have problems with the GT crank (assuming the GT is cast of course)?

Anyone anyone?

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post #11 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 09:11 PM
 
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Yeah that's the one, looks like I should read our prices more often. I was off by $200 , sorry about that. By the way I have never seen a GT crank fail, and I have seen some pretty crazy power put to them. I know they can handle 618 horse and 700ft/lbs of torque(at the fly) I personally like the idea of the Cobra crank myself.
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post #12 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 09:14 PM
 
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Hey Greenmonster- they are a little more involved than a pushrod engine, but with a service manual and a couple special tools, no problem.
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post #13 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 09:21 PM
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Thumbs up Hmm

I've seen some built 4v's go for that price. You might want to read page 99 of the June 2002 5.0 magazine. They have a bunch of good writeup's on motor swaps, etc.

-Nate
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post #14 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 09:26 PM
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Lightbulb whatever you guys do...for the unknowing anyway...

dont skimp on the headstuds or oil pump gears, especially if you get boosted....
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post #15 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 09:35 PM
 
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Houston Performance has some pretty good prices . For a rotating assembly with forged internals ,( Cobra crank) the price was only $3300 . If you want to spend a little more they offer a 302 Stoker with forged internals for $3900
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post #16 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: whatever you guys do...for the unknowing anyway...

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles
dont skimp on the headstuds or oil pump gears, especially if you get boosted....
I have a set of ARP's studs ready to go
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post #17 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 10:53 PM
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Tim, you can build one yourself if you think you are capable, I'm not sure how the cost comes out though, I'll have to think out loud from when I built mine. Machine work was about $500 which included balancing the crank, etc, boring .020, cleaning the block and measuring all the clearances for me so I would just have to assemble it and not measure anything. Having them check the clearances was worthwhile, they gave me a sheet with the measurments and the tq values for the mains and rods.
I bought a used cobra crank for $350 which was checked out by the machine shop, rods/pistons (JE/Eagle) were about $900, a cobra oil pump and ford bearings, head gaskets, rear main seal were about $150 I think. I already had head studs (close to $200), got some main studs for free from a friend but you can use stock replacement main bolts if you want to. Not sure what the main studs cost though. Rings were under $100. You have to file fit them, not very hard, you also have to install the spiro-locks on the piston pins. You can reuse most of the other gaskets on the motor such as the valve covers and front cover. So it looks like a little over $2k will build a shortblock if you do it yourself.
Of course now is a good time to get some cams while you have it apart.
Bob

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post #18 of 23 Old 04-17-2002, 11:17 PM
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service manual?

scottbeer-

Where's a good place to get one?


SJ

4vGT
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post #19 of 23 Old 04-18-2002, 01:04 AM
 
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If you are interested in firsthand knowledge, I went the SHM route using the Econoblock after my engine blew. I ordered it and it took only 5 days. The first engine was delivered to my front door literally, but the shipping company dropped the engine off the back of the truck. I called SHM and they were very sorry and 3 DAYS LATER I had a new one sitting in my garage. The price is what they advertise, but I threw in ARP studs in with it, and complete gasket set, which did cover every gasket you will come across when you do the swap. You will need to get a new pilot bearing though, and also the studs for the timing chain guides. The old ones will NOT come out of the old block. I did not know that much about building engines at all when I started this project. I order the shop manual and worked on it about 3 hrs a day after work for about 2 weeks and had it done. I was working on it with no help and doing it in the parking lot of my work with common hand tools and a few special tools I borrowed. (Torque wrench, clutch alignment tool, no air tools at all) It was not very hard if you just pay attention to detail. The timing was a challenge due to 2 camshafts. I had the timing wrong the first time after I torqued down the heads and had to undo 4 hrs of work and start over. It helped me to use a permanent marker and make my own marks on the timing chains and cam and crank sprockets so you know it can only line up one way when it goes back on. Also dont forget to put the cooland drain plugs back into the new block from the old one or you will have coolant pouring out from somewhere and wont know where its coming from. Have to lift the engine up off the mounts to get the passenger side one screwed in. Anyway, It cost me 3400 dollars out the door with ARP studs and gasket kits deliver to your door. The engine works like a charm. A week after installation I put the blower back on and no major trouble at all. I have found a few things that I forgot the put back such as one vacuum hose from the EGR tube was off, but nothing major. Runs like a charm...............................Hope this helps
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post #20 of 23 Old 04-18-2002, 08:05 AM
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Teal....When I build mine this fall/winter I am going with Coast High Performance products. I like the way they designed the 5.0 liter pistons(reason below). This makes me think they put that extra effort into everything they produce. I am going to buy the forged pistons, H-beam rods, forged crank, and the 8-rib dampener all from them. I will buy everything at the same time, so i can have them balance everything for me. I will assemble it in my garage.

Good luck ....hope this helps

Tim






(1)(they designed a new blank just for 5.0 engines, because using the std chevy(which is what most all non-mod pistons start as) blank like most all other piston manufacturers makes the top of the piston thin....this is due to the rotation angle of the valves...not valve "cant", valve rotation...the result is a thicker dome )

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post #21 of 23 Old 04-18-2002, 09:24 AM
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In the FWIW dept, Jake Lamotta thinks installing billet oil pump gears is probably more important than forged pistons and rods for hi HP use.

Ralph Greene
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post #22 of 23 Old 04-18-2002, 01:54 PM
 
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Mine is Houston Performance. I think it is a good deal, but if I had to do it over again, I'd build it myself.
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post #23 of 23 Old 04-18-2002, 03:08 PM
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I done my own rebuild saved alot of money. I got J/E flat-top pistons $525 I think, Eagle h-beam rods$600 used my stock GT crank over since I haven't saw one fail yet hopefully I won't be the first. The build up is very similar to a pushrod motor just no pushrods and a few extra steps. If you are mechanically inclinded and can get your hands on a good shop manual you will be fine.

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