thick white smoke and oil coming out of driver side air breather...engine rebuild?ALL - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 04-16-2002, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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thick white smoke and oil coming out of driver side air breather...engine rebuild?ALL

okay i double checked it today thick white smoke was coming out of the driver side air breather hose.and so was some drops of oil under throttle.

is this it ?the car runs fine when cold but gets hyper rich after warming up.

should i give up the header order for the summit engine rebuild kit?

it has speed pro forged pistons and rings.and costs around 710$.

is this a good price?or might there be a diffent problem?

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post #2 of 14 Old 04-16-2002, 06:16 PM
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Wow!! It doesnt sound good, but I wonder if you didnt whack the intake gasket, look there. I hope its not the engine, but if it is get the JE pistons and the Manley rod package and change to a Cobra Crank..BTW I was in Ankara 1 1/2 years ago at the Air Force Base Teaching classes on Torque, Tension and compression, I had a great time. The Turkish people are FANTASTIC..BTW I tried eating the Goat brains, very interesting. This is where I was located TURKIYE'DE KALiBRENiN ONCUSU KALiTE, TECRUBE, GUVENCE...KALIBRASYON LABORATUVARI...ETIMESGUI ANKARA, 3.HIBMK..

I dont have all the hiphens but I think you get the idea. Snap-on is planning on sending me back as soon as everything has calm down, because the Turkish Army Generals were very impressed with our equiptment..Stay in touch...DA Snake boy!!!

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post #3 of 14 Old 04-16-2002, 07:43 PM
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Not knowing all the details or your history, it doesn't sound bad.

I noticed in your sig that you have a s/c. IMO, sounds more like a result of some blow-by. I ended up deleting the PCV and replaced with valve cover breathers for now. Every now and then, like after some hard driving, I have the same thing. I actually get some oil accumulation around the breathers as a result of the oil rich vapors that escape. Sometimes it really puffs out of there! If your compression checks out fine, then you should be OK.

On top of the small amount of blow-by, our overhead cams tend to sling alot of oil around and the vapors that get vented from the valve covers can get very oil saturated as a result. That's one of the reasons I did the PCV valve delete, after installing my s/c. When I had the hose attached from the PCV to the intake, I used to get some accumulation of oil in the bottom of the lower intake over time. Now I have none .

One of these days I'm going to rig up a crankcase evacuation pump.

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post #4 of 14 Old 04-16-2002, 08:03 PM
 
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I've run into this problem before. I found that alot of people running blowers tend to screw up their PCV system.
1/ they hook it up in a way that the engine gets unmetered air.
2/ they hook it up in a way that exposes it to boost.
3/They put in breathers and eliminate it.
I find that in non drag race conditions it's better to install boost check valves in the pcv system and hook all lines in a manner that prevents unmetered air situations. I like your evacuation system idea, what system were you considering.
Alot of white vapour does indicate blow bye, I have seen this on the dyno on race cars running no PCV system and the valve cover breathers. The first few pulls on new engine installs you see alot of vapour, and then it goes away completely. If I see it on the dyno I usually find some engine damage has occured, but not always. You might want to get a leak down test performed.
COOP is right these cars sling alot of oil around in the valve cover, I've seen an engine with a plexi glass window in the valve cover and it was amazing at the volume of oil flying around in there.

Last edited by scottbeer; 04-16-2002 at 08:07 PM.
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post #5 of 14 Old 04-16-2002, 11:43 PM
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The one thing I didn't mention is that my motor is rebuilt with forged pistons. Slightly smaller than stock, hence the piston slap when cold. Probably one of the reasons I have a little blow-by. Compression is fine, though.

On my previously stock motor, the PCV setup contributed to oil accumulation in the lower intake. IMO, as I mentioned above, the metered air fed into the intake (via the PCV) was very oil saturated, due to the DOHC design. After running the stock motor PCVless for awhile, the oil deposits stopped forming in the lower intake. Upon tearing down the engine prior to rebuild, the intake runners had black sticky goo all over them, probably as a result of the oil rich vapors in the intake and the heat from the heads breaking the oil down.

Scottbeer, on the evacuation idea, I'll probably end up with the unit from Moroso. It is higher dollar electrical pump, but supposed to have a duty cycle rated for daily street use. I'll probably add an electrically controlled valve to drain the catch can. The drain valve would be normally open when the car is off, closed when energized (by the ignition system). Then plumb in a drain line, to drain the catch can into the oil pan (much like the gravity fed oil return line for the Vortech s/c). I would think this setup would allow for automatic draining of the catch can, while preventing the evacuation pump from re-pressurizing the crankcase.

On the surface, it seems like it should work and sounds simple enough. I'll investigate it more when the time comes to finally do it.
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post #6 of 14 Old 04-17-2002, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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so you are saying that it might not be any broken pistons/valves?

my friends mustang gt has vacuum coming from the drivers side valve cover ,but all i have is thick white smoke.

also what can you say about the fine start but altra rich after the first wot blast ?

also I have a poorley sealed up passenger side valve cover
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post #7 of 14 Old 04-17-2002, 10:55 AM
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PURPLEMUSTANG, I don't want to mis-lead you, but in my setup, occasional white smoke is normal, since I'm venting the crankcase to the atmosphere and don't have an evacuation pump on it yet. It only does it after some hard driving under full boost, when the crankcase gets a little pressurized. I've got more clearance between my forged pistons and cylinder walls than the stock engine.

If your's does it ALL the time, then it could indicate other problems like Scottbeer had noted. These could include rings not seated properly, worn rings or even cracked or broken. The question is, how often does it do it and when? If it is usually after hard driving, then I would think you don't have a problem, other than a small amount of blow-by due to the supercharging.

If you haven't done so, I'd go get a compression tester from the local auto parts store. They are around $25 or so. I have a short write-up that may help, found under the tech docs section of the SVTTexas club website. As Scottbeer had noted, a leak down test may also be in order.

As part of my regular maintenance and inspection routine, I compression test my engine two to three times a year at a minimum, recording the results. Gives me a good baseline for monitoring my rebuilt engine as it ages.

I'm not as familiar with the pre 98 setup, so maybe someone could chime in that has more experience with that application. However, the rich condition sounds more like a tuning adjustment (fuel pressure), faulty O2 sensor reading or it could be as simple as a dirty air filter. How long has it been since you've cleaned it (assuming you have a K&N air) or replaced your filter? As far as your O2 sensors, I didn't see any ET's in your sig, so I'm assuming you don't take it to the track and therefore probably never made the mistake of running leaded race gas in your setup (which is bad for the stock O2 sensors). In which case, those are probably OK.
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post #8 of 14 Old 04-17-2002, 11:11 AM
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Just a shot in the dark but it may be your liquid injection system. There is a letter in here written by EATON that says that liquid injection will eat away at parts of the blower rotors and crap will fall into your engine. How many miles have you been using the injection?
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post #9 of 14 Old 04-17-2002, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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the air filter is pretty dirty,i don't know about the state of the o2 sensor.but from what i know i have a crack in the header.

the thick white smoke comes out of the drivers side valve cover when i start the car.

i want to know is what exactly happens when you break a ring or something.

does the car stop running?
does it get ultra rich?
do you here some loud sound?

the car gives out white steam at idle(also might be from the cold wether) but the steam goes away once on thottle. also no visible blue smoke coming from anywhere.

the car seems to run fine but very rich and thus underpowered.

i also haven't sealed up the passenger side valve cover hole properly.

at all cases what is the reading i should get when getting a compression test?
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post #10 of 14 Old 04-17-2002, 11:55 AM
 
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I have asked you a couple of times how you managed to put a hole in the valve cover? this may be the root of your problem.

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post #11 of 14 Old 04-17-2002, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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well it happened on new years eve(2000) i smashed into 2 walls at 120 mph,this accident put a hole in my old heads(svo's ) as well. also a hole the size of a button on the passenger side valve cover.

at all cases the good heads were ditched(sigh!) and i put the old ones back on.

the valve cover was sealed.but yes the day the seal broke again was the day the car started running rich,also coolant came out of the radiator cap!!??

as you said it might be the root cause oil spilled all over the airfilter.how much does oil effect the maf?or the temp sensor?

any ideas?
also the car starts out fine but after a while it gets mega rich ,so it might be an electronic issue.

I will be getting a compression test soon.
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post #12 of 14 Old 04-17-2002, 04:40 PM
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I'll summarize what has been stated.

Do this first:

1) Fix the hole in the valve cover. If your PCV system is functioning, then this hole is probably introducing some un-metered air into your setup under vacuum conditions.

2) Clean the air filter. If it is oily, that is definitely a problem.

3) If the filter got soaked with oil from the hole in your valve cover, then your MAF electronics and temp sensor are most likely also coated with a film of oil and grit by now. I'd remove the MAF electronics and temp sensor, then gently clean them with a Q-tip and rubbing alchohol. This is probably the source of the rich condition.


If that doesn't work, then do this:

1) Check out my compression tester doc. It'll tell you how to do the test. The tool comes with instructions as well. Be sure to get one that has the threaded fitting on a 12" or so flexible hose, so you can get a good seal in the spark plug holes.

2) Not sure what the water injection would be contributing to the mix, but that may be worth looking into as 98Roush noted, in the event the above three items don't cure your woes.
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post #13 of 14 Old 04-19-2002, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
 
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the mechanics diagnosed the problem in my car as a burnt head gasket.
since there was coolant found mixed with the oil,steam coming out of the exhaust,and steam coming out of the air breather hose.and some oil was found in the coolant resvoir.

i'm going to get a gasket as soon as possible.do you think they diagnosed it right?by the way triple thanks for all your help coop.
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post #14 of 14 Old 04-19-2002, 02:08 PM
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Well, with those new symptoms (steam in exhaust, steam in air breather, oil in coolant, coolant in oil), definitely sounds like blown head gasket(s). Nothing beats seeing it first hand though, rather than trying to play Doctor Rx and 20 questions over the internet

Glad you got it diagnosed and hope everything works out for you.
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