Anyone ever have a stuck hydraulic lifter on a 4.6? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 Old 03-25-2002, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 458
Anyone ever have a stuck hydraulic lifter on a 4.6?

I'm not sure if the terminology is right, to begin with, but I'm referring to the hydraulic "idler" at the other end of the rocker.

I just bought a 95 Crown Vic 4.6 at auction, and it's got a pretty hideous sounding knock on the head in the passenger's side. The engine runs smooth, and is not missing. It has 136k miles.

We removed the valve cover, and to the best of our ability, narrowed the noise down to the #3 cylinder, left-most valve.

The "hammering noise" follows engine RPM, and has been heard to come and go, but only leaves for a second or two at a time, and rarely leaves. The cam lobes look okay, the oil appears to be coming through okay, and all of the valves appear to operate.

The noise is NOT heard, with just cranking from the starter. It's only heard with the engine RUNNING.

It's OBDII, and the check engine light is NOT on.

Does anyone have any suggestions? The shop manual says, all I need to do to remove the rocker, is compress the valve spring, and pull it out. Is that true?

Where can I get the valve spring tool?

Thanks for all the help!!

--Ed


1987 Mercury Cougar XR7 "1FSTCAT" - Keith Craft built 306, T5-Z, 9 LB Powerdyne Blower. 390 RWHP, 420 FT. LBS TQ.

1991 Ford Crown Vic Ex-Police. "NTRCPTR" 460, C6 - Sounds awesome, runs like a howling dog with it's eyeballs on fire.
1FSTCAT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 03-25-2002, 08:41 AM
Registered User
 
Chris98vobra's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,710
Very common problem. I helped a friend rebuild his DOHC thinking the sound was a rod bearing. It truely sounded like one and seemed to come from down low. 4 of us agreed and an engine rebuild started. It wasn't until it was all in pieces that we realized the bearings looked perfect and the "follower" , I think its officially called, was collapsed.

I have since heard of many others doing this.

Chris


Chris98vobra
98 Tan on Laser Red Rag Top Cobra


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Fully built and forged with Mahle pistons, SHM Blower cams, ported heads/nitrated valves
Novi 2000, 52# RC injectors, custom IC, Devilsown alky injection, SSR Intake, Steeda rails and -8 feed lines, 03 tank + Aviator dual pumps
Tuned with SCT Pro Racer Package (and everything else over the years)
Lot's of other stuff!
Chris98vobra is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 03-25-2002, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 458
Anyone have any suggestions for the tools and steps necessary to replace the follower?

1987 Mercury Cougar XR7 "1FSTCAT" - Keith Craft built 306, T5-Z, 9 LB Powerdyne Blower. 390 RWHP, 420 FT. LBS TQ.

1991 Ford Crown Vic Ex-Police. "NTRCPTR" 460, C6 - Sounds awesome, runs like a howling dog with it's eyeballs on fire.
1FSTCAT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 16 Old 03-25-2002, 11:47 AM
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 53
If that doesn't seem to fix the problem check the valve guides, I just had two come loose. Made the same tapping noise that you explained.
Havok is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 02:23 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 427
are these expensive fixes???

i have a tick at idle, sounds like it is coming from the bottom of the motor

jason

2001cobra
stradt14 is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 08:59 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Jacksonville,Fla.USA
Posts: 268
To replace the lash adjusters is simple,no special tools needed really..

Bring that cylinder to top dead so the follower is on the base circle,then"now it gets tough to explain" take a large srew driver and stick the tip"of the screwdriver" in the follower"there is a space where the roller meets the follower body" and just pop the follower off the valve"use the cam as ur leverage point..

then just pull the adjuster out and replace it,to reinstall the follower just stick it on the valve "it will not go on the adjuster pivot point without reversing the proceedure i just talked about"

no nned to compress the spring at all,it is real easy to demonstrate but hard as hell to explain..it should be self explainatiory when u look at it.

hope this helps..

Steve
HP Performance Inc..
Xchief1320 is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 10:53 AM
Registered User
 
Chris98vobra's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,710
To replace them is RELATIVELY simple on a DOHC IF it is an intake lash adjuster. Exhaust is on the lower side of the head and access is very difficult. I have only helped replace seals in the intake side, but looking at the exhaust, I wouldn't enjoy it.

My #5 exhaust is clattering some now when the engine is cold. I am putting it off for a long time. Probablt until I do a complete rebuild, which hopefully is measured in years from now.

Chris

Chris98vobra
98 Tan on Laser Red Rag Top Cobra


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Fully built and forged with Mahle pistons, SHM Blower cams, ported heads/nitrated valves
Novi 2000, 52# RC injectors, custom IC, Devilsown alky injection, SSR Intake, Steeda rails and -8 feed lines, 03 tank + Aviator dual pumps
Tuned with SCT Pro Racer Package (and everything else over the years)
Lot's of other stuff!
Chris98vobra is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 11:23 AM
Registered User
 
duane v's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: So. Cal. BABY
Posts: 1,006
Lash adjusters dont knock when they go bad, they have a subtle tick.. If its a CLACKING sound I would look in the direction of the timing chain tensioner, they do fail and they make a clacking sound. What happens is the chain has extra slack and it slaps against the chain guide it sound like a rod knock coming fom the front of the head..Pull the valve cover off and check the tension on chain, see if you can lift the chain off the cam sprocket..The chain should be very snug if every thing is good, if its loose your gonna heve to remove all the front accesories and remove the timing chain cover...DA Snake Boy!!!

Last edited by duane v; 05-11-2002 at 11:29 AM.
duane v is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 12:09 PM
Registered User
 
Chris98vobra's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,710
Duane,

I've got to disagree with you on that one. I wouldn't have thought so either if I hadn't experienced it with my own eyes and ears. 10K miles on a 98 Vobra and the sound was a knock and it sounded like a rod bearing. Only after the enginer was torn appart did we realize all bearings were perfect and one valve lash adjuster was collapsed. For some reason these blocks transmit sounds in unusual ways.

Chris

Chris98vobra
98 Tan on Laser Red Rag Top Cobra


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Fully built and forged with Mahle pistons, SHM Blower cams, ported heads/nitrated valves
Novi 2000, 52# RC injectors, custom IC, Devilsown alky injection, SSR Intake, Steeda rails and -8 feed lines, 03 tank + Aviator dual pumps
Tuned with SCT Pro Racer Package (and everything else over the years)
Lot's of other stuff!
Chris98vobra is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 12:53 PM
Registered User
 
duane v's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: So. Cal. BABY
Posts: 1,006
Chris Im not looking for a blessing on whether Im right or wrong, Im just telling the guy to look in the direction of the timing chain tensioner.. But if it's the lash adjuster he's going to have to change all of them on the affected bank, you just cant change the bad one and leave in the rest unfortunately. DA Snake Boy!!

duane v is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 07:02 PM
Registered User
 
mercoug302's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: the west Jersey shore
Posts: 305
Exclamation Uh, OH!

The cams on my 1996 4.6L are getting kinda noisy when the engine's cold. Could this be a sign?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mercoug302 is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 458
I can tell you in this case, the noise MOSTLY went away when the lifters were both removed from the #4 cylinder. I put NEW lifters in the cylinder and the noise came back, as loud as ever.

With the lifters removed from that cylinder, when the engine warmed up, the noise became obvious from other cylinders. The oil looked REALLY burnt and the police had been using 20/50 oil in it.

I think it's more likely to have been a valve guide problem, mechanically hurt rings, damaged pistons, or some other internal problem.

I sold the car before I got that far into it..

--Ed

1987 Mercury Cougar XR7 "1FSTCAT" - Keith Craft built 306, T5-Z, 9 LB Powerdyne Blower. 390 RWHP, 420 FT. LBS TQ.

1991 Ford Crown Vic Ex-Police. "NTRCPTR" 460, C6 - Sounds awesome, runs like a howling dog with it's eyeballs on fire.
1FSTCAT is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 08:08 PM
Registered User
 
RedStallion98's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nashville, Michigan
Posts: 460
I had this same sound. Which is the reason the car is broke now. Four of the valve guides were out and the sound was gone when the lifters were removed.

So it was the valve guides in my case and if the sound goes away with the lifters out I would say it was in that case as well. Just remove intake and look in head to see if the guides fell out. but you said you sold it so its someone elses problem now
RedStallion98 is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 458
Red, I'm curious..

Any idea what would cause FOUR valve guides to fall out, assumingly, around the same time??

--Ed

1987 Mercury Cougar XR7 "1FSTCAT" - Keith Craft built 306, T5-Z, 9 LB Powerdyne Blower. 390 RWHP, 420 FT. LBS TQ.

1991 Ford Crown Vic Ex-Police. "NTRCPTR" 460, C6 - Sounds awesome, runs like a howling dog with it's eyeballs on fire.
1FSTCAT is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 10:54 PM
Registered User
 
RedStallion98's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nashville, Michigan
Posts: 460
Quote:
Originally posted by 1FSTCAT
Red, I'm curious..

Any idea what would cause FOUR valve guides to fall out, assumingly, around the same time??

--Ed

Unfortionatly no, I dont. The valves hit the pistons, they are bent. My conclusion is that it was off time to start and the valves were hitting the pistons the whole time (55 Miles about 1.5 hours total running time) untill the valve guides finally broke. Since I dont know if they are borke or just fell out

I figured myself or the other two guys around when I started the car would have heard it but I really dont know. Unless eh machine guy mess up. He has them now but isnt looking at them until next week
RedStallion98 is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 05-11-2002, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 458
Thanks for the insight, Red! Good luck with your project!

--Ed

1987 Mercury Cougar XR7 "1FSTCAT" - Keith Craft built 306, T5-Z, 9 LB Powerdyne Blower. 390 RWHP, 420 FT. LBS TQ.

1991 Ford Crown Vic Ex-Police. "NTRCPTR" 460, C6 - Sounds awesome, runs like a howling dog with it's eyeballs on fire.
1FSTCAT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome