Whats needed to convert to c-4 or c-6 in 2v GT? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 19 Old 03-24-2002, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Whats needed to convert to c-4 or c-6 in 2v GT?

All in subject.

Anyone have any pro/cons for this on a 2v?

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post #2 of 19 Old 03-24-2002, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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anyone.........TTT

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post #3 of 19 Old 03-24-2002, 11:10 PM
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Hey ..

Sux no reply's huh? I'm considering putting a C4 or TKO in my 99GT since I'm doing a 6pt MM cage, and prepping the car for 11's with the addition of an intercooler and hopefully a nice custom tune. So far...I haven't been able to find anyone that's done a C4 install on a 96+ 2V GT or Cobra. I have been told that I will need to run 3.27 or 3.55 gears because with only 3 speeds, the car will TACH way over 3000rpm at 70mph on the highway. I will also lose some top end as well ( I don't know what the car would be good for...maybe 130-140mph range?..just a guess). One thing I do want to know is if installing a C4 with blowproof bellhousing...will my Bassani X Pipe with cats clear it? will a factory H Pipe clear?.

Lots of questions....no answers so far... I am going to call performance automatic (PA) transmissions and ask them a bunch of questions...since they have a bellhousing (SFI approved!) for 4.6 cars that allows you to install a C4 or Powerglide in your car.

Good Luck!

SOHC
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post #4 of 19 Old 03-25-2002, 12:18 AM
 
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Several people running Mod Motor that have converted to the C4 transmission. The change really depends on your usage of the car. If it's a street/strip car (with more emphasis on strip) then the C4 is a good choice. You can go up on the rear gear ratio to make use of the transmission's gear ratio. A 4.10 or a 4.30 gear is a good choice if you have the engine to use them. A '96-98 car will need the PI headswap to be able to rpm enough.

You'll need a flexplate, adapter bellhousing, transmission (of course) and you'll have to modify the crossmember to work. The C4 is shorter than the AODE or the manual transmissions. It's not that difficult to do. Just a little time consuming. You can use the stock automatic shifter also. The flexplate and bellhousing can be bought from Performance Automatic. They also sell their Super Comp C4 and guarantee it for as long as you own it. If it ever breaks or even hiccups, return it and the repairs are free. Call Tom, Gerald or Harvey and be sure to tell them that I sent you.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I can help further.
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post #5 of 19 Old 03-25-2002, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Shannon!! Do you know if the new bell housing will fit w/ longtubes. Also based off of my sig you think my engine is enough to spin the C-4?
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post #6 of 19 Old 04-14-2002, 09:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ra96GT
Thanks Shannon!! Do you know if the new bell housing will fit w/ longtubes. Also based off of my sig you think my engine is enough to spin the C-4?
Yes, longtubes will clear the PA bellhousing. The bellhousing is no wider than stock.
You'll also have to get a new shifter for a C4.
I hacked up my console to get mine to fit. I'll give you the details if you're interested in doing something like this. I got the idea from last month's 5.0 magazine.



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post #7 of 19 Old 04-14-2002, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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Nitz,
Send me as much info as possible! What gear do you plan on running. I was thinking that 4.10's wouldnt be enuff gear for a c-4 /
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post #8 of 19 Old 04-14-2002, 02:37 PM
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Hey Nitz..

I'd appreciate having some directions for a C4 install too.. I'm considering a TKO or C4 for my vortech blown 99GT. Also...when you removed the center console...how did you get it out all the way? I have my interior stripped apart for a MM 6pt cage install..and removed the 4 bolts holding down the center console...but the emergency brake handle is in the way to pull it out.. do I have to remove the entire emergency brake assembly to get the whole console out? What shifter are you using in the pics?

Thanks!

SOHC
99 Vortech GT
02 Subaru WRX
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post #9 of 19 Old 04-14-2002, 02:47 PM
 
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Don't forget the tranny cooler, and I like the B&M shifter for the late model stangs. When you put it into a stick car you have to lower the tunnel. But if done right it looks stock and you will never miss a shift in the quarter. It has a trans brake button on the handle, and a line lock button on the console.

To get the console out it helps to pull the e- brake up as high as you can and pull the front of the console up and slide it off the e-brake handle.

Last edited by scottbeer; 04-14-2002 at 02:55 PM.
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post #10 of 19 Old 04-14-2002, 09:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by sohcv8gt
Hey Nitz..

do I have to remove the entire emergency brake assembly to get the whole console out? What shifter are you using in the pics?

Thanks!

SOHC
99 Vortech GT
02 Subaru WRX
Nope, just pull the e-brake up as far as you can pull it. Slide the console up and out. You will have to gently spread the front of the console to clear the upper console and such.

The shifter is a Winters shifter.

Ok.. if you guys want to go the route that I did as far as hacking up the center console for that style shifter, keep in mind if you ever want to trade in the car or sell it as stock, you will have to replace the entire console or you can just leave it hacked up and buy a new cup holder (will explain in a bit about the cup holder) and no one will ever notice the plastic that s been cut out.
Unfortunately I dont have any pics of the steps that I've taken so bear with me...

First and foremost, get yerself a Dremel tool. You will have a VERY tough time with this project without one. Also, get some extra cutting discs. I must have gone through a dozen of them.

Ok.. once you have the center console out, you will notice it has a plastic runner in the middle of the entire thing (underside). Directly below the cup holder location is where you will be cutting. You'll have to cut out enough so that the bottom half of the shifter can fit through. DO NOT cut more than you have to. That plastic runner also helps in bracing the center console.
Now, the Winters shifter comes in its own tower type of mount. The shifter can be detached from this. You will have to make up two brackets in order to support the shifter. All I did was use a thin aluminum street sign and cut out two strips the length of the shifter. Get it as thin as possible as you will have to bend the crap out of them later on to get it to mold to the underside of the center console.
BTW- I did NOT steal the street sign. A friend of mine works for the city and they had some old signs that they were going to throw away so he got them for me. I've used them before for brackets, covers etc. They work VERY well and can be cut easily with a jig saw. I HIGHLY recommend them for minor fabrication jobs. They are strong, easy to work with and easy to cut.
Anyway, you will have to do a lot of positioning to get the shifter to fit just right.
The trim/base of the shifter that you see in the pics is actually my stock cup holder. I basically cut the entire bottom half off and just re-used the lip/trim. The shifter fits perfectly in it.

Now, before you re-install the console, you will have to drill a hole somewhere to run the shifter cable through. I drilled mine at the back of the e-brake assembly. Use a file to dull the sharp lip that forms after drilling. Now, find a deep socket that will fit in the hole. Attach it to an extension and bend the hole. In other words, pull the extension towards the front of the car. This will produce a "tunnel" type of effect. It will allow the shifter cable to go straight under the car instead of making a sharp bend into the hole. You will understand what I mean once you get you shifter. The cable is very thick and you dont want it to bind hence avoiding any sharp bends.

Here you can see part of the bracket. I just anchored it to the side of the tranny tunnel. I know its ugly, but it works and besides, the seats will cover it. I plan to paint them black anyway, so... dont mind the wires. The red and black wires are for the neutral safety switch. I have yet to route those.


Oh yeah, you will need to make up a cover to cover the hole where the stock shifter sat. I used the same street sign and made a cover. I traced the shift boot base along with the bolt holes. Put a bead of silicon around the edge and it will work like butta Here is a pick of the cover I made. It looks like it's glowing, but it was the reflection of the flash.

I am going to make up something to cover the hole in the plastic console where the shifter sat. I was thinking about just making up a cover and bend it to the contour of the console, but I would like to take advantage of the extra space. Maybe I'll put a tranny temp gauge there or something.. dunno yet. I'll post pics of it when I do it. Hopes this helps.

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post #11 of 19 Old 04-14-2002, 10:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ra96GT
Nitz,
Send me as much info as possible! What gear do you plan on running. I was thinking that 4.10's wouldnt be enuff gear for a c-4 /
I'm staying with the 3.73 ratio for now. Keep in mind that a C4 is a 3 speed. When I had the 5speed in my car, I was crossing the finish line in 4th with 3.73s. I'm going to be running taller tires so that will help a little as well. I know the gearing in the two trannys (T45 vs. C4) are different, but still.. Dont' worry about 4.10s not being enough to turn the C4. Get the right convertor for your application and you shouldn't have a problem launching (if that's your reason for wanting 4.10s).
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post #12 of 19 Old 04-14-2002, 10:49 PM
 
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uhh.. i thought i read somewhere that you could beef a 4R70W to like 700hp.. why not just do that??
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post #13 of 19 Old 04-14-2002, 11:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SilverStanger
uhh.. i thought i read somewhere that you could beef a 4R70W to like 700hp.. why not just do that??
because on a 99+ you would have to get a new computer/wiring. It cost's about $1500 from Ford just for the computer and harness(BS if you ask me. That price was given to me from a local Ford parts dept.). Of course this is for converting from a 5 speed to an auto. RA96gt might have better luck though. I think all you will need is the tranny harness.
This is what was told to me, so..
If you go that route, might as well spend the money on a FAST system, but if you don't have that kind of cash, a $750 C4 is much more appealing

Last edited by RWLKR; 04-14-2002 at 11:27 PM.
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post #14 of 19 Old 04-15-2002, 11:05 AM
 
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because on a 99+ you would have to get a new computer/wiring.
Why not an AOD? I would think a C4 would turn some serious RPM cruizing 80 on the freeway. Just trying to get a feel for other people's reasoning for their specific choice.

Thanks.
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post #15 of 19 Old 04-15-2002, 11:14 AM
 
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Originally posted by Mike[socal]


Why not an AOD? I would think a C4 would turn some serious RPM cruizing 80 on the freeway. Just trying to get a feel for other people's reasoning for their specific choice.

Thanks.
You are right. The C4 WILL turn some high RPMs. C4's aren't intended for highway use. MY reasons for going with a C4 are they are about $1200 cheaper than an AOD, and my car isn't a daily driver so I'm not worried about crusing at high RPMS. They are cheap, simple and very reliable for their intended use.
I can't speak for the other guys though..
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post #16 of 19 Old 04-15-2002, 11:16 AM
 
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SD--- Gotta love the information thrown in here by some people!!!


Any way, here goes for the conversion of a 2V or 4V to a C4....First off, this is a RACE tranny....There is no overdrive and the 3rd gear is 1:1 ratio, same as a 4th gear in a T45, 3650, 3550, TKO, T56, and 3rd gear in the AOD and AODE....With this in mind, cruising around on long trips, isn't the best for this tranny, although it can be done...If you drive your car on the street say 50% and go to the track say 50%, then I'd stick with the STick or go to an AODE for the 96 and up cars....However, you need to spend alot of $$$$ for the AODE setup to handle high HP....You need an electronic tranny controller to control the shifts, like the TCS baumanator that Lidio uses....Otherwise you could put a manual Valve Body in the AOD but then again, you loose the auto shift and you constantly shift yourself...

To take full advantage of the C4 also for the track, depending on your power levels, you really wouldn't want to lower your gear ratios, especially for the 4V cars.....In my opinion, only go with a C4 if you are constantly breaking clutches and are in the HP levels and RACE alot....

Here's what you need.... PA or Dynamic Bellhousing thats SFI spec...SFI Spec Flexplate or also known as Flywheel...(get the SFI spec one as the cheap non SFI spec one is very thin and no good past 11.99)...Tranny Cooler from Summit, about 60-100 bucks...C4 Tranny of course, possible custom driveshaft and Shifter...The B&M Stick is nice but it requires some mods to get it to fit in the console....Holcomb Motorsports sells a nice adapter plate with the Hurst Quarter Stick that seems to fit much better and look alot more stock....Also you will need a good convertor...The good ones for Race Apps, will run about 800-900 bucks depending on your power levels and what you want out of it....

Jeff
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post #17 of 19 Old 04-15-2002, 11:33 AM
 
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Originally posted by BlackCobra99Va
SD--- Gotta love the information thrown in here by some people!!!

What's that supposed to mean? No one really got into the specifics of what is really needed for the swap or what driving around town would be like or what the true purpose of a C4 is. . Please explain? All of the info that I relayed came from Ford and Performance Automatic (minus the whole console/shifter thing).
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post #18 of 19 Old 04-15-2002, 11:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by nitz


What's that supposed to mean? No one really got into the specifics of what is really needed for the swap or what driving around town would be like or what the true purpose of a C4 is. . Please explain? All of the info that I relayed came from Ford and Performance Automatic (minus the whole console/shifter thing).

Wasn't directed at you at all Nitz....No worries...


Jeff
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post #19 of 19 Old 04-15-2002, 11:46 AM
 
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Originally posted by BlackCobra99Va



Wasn't directed at you at all Nitz....No worries...


Jeff
alrighty.. just checking. I don't want to be passing on incorrect information.
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