Drivability problems - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 01-02-2019, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Drivability problems

Have been having an odd misfiring at 2500-3000rpms when accelerating at roughly 1/8 throttle. Can give it more gas or let out and it stops misfiring. Did some data logging and found that the MAF counts go crazy when the misfiring takes place. Was wondering what everyone thinks the causes of this could be? I'm not sure if it's a bad MAF or if could be something else? I can provide more data logs or information if needed. I'll add pictures of the intake setup, because I'm not sure if the bypass could be causing some kind of interference to the MAF.

SCT-BA2600 MAF (Draw Through)
CX Racing Intercooler
Vortech MaxFlo BPV

First datalog is slowly accelerating in 4th. The second is at idle and then holding the revs at 2,000 rpms.

Attached Images
File Type: png 4th gear MAF counts.PNG (139.2 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg Idle and 2000 rpms MAF counts.jpg (25.8 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8684.jpg (48.0 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8685.jpg (64.0 KB, 19 views)
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post #2 of 36 Old 01-02-2019, 10:31 PM
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post long and short term trims of this


89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #3 of 36 Old 01-02-2019, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Long-term - Bank 1 = Brown
Bank 2 = Orange

Short-term - Bank 1 = Dark Green
Bank 2 = Light Green
Attached Images
File Type: png Long Term Fuel Trim.PNG (154.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: png Short Term Fuel Trim.PNG (157.7 KB, 18 views)
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post #4 of 36 Old 01-03-2019, 01:41 AM
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now both 02s

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #5 of 36 Old 01-03-2019, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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First data log is a 4th gear cruise. I must have missed the bank 2 sensor 1 when creating the file, so I'll do another eventually. Second is at idle and then holding rpms.
Attached Images
File Type: png 4th gear O2 B1S1 and MAF Counts.PNG (121.6 KB, 16 views)
File Type: png O2 Sensors Idle and 2000rpm hold.PNG (147.4 KB, 16 views)
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post #6 of 36 Old 01-03-2019, 05:55 PM
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THE idle one is at operating temp?

Can you do one with the misfire?

Also do one at idle, and snap to wot a few time, we want to see the 02 reaction

Log rpm

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #7 of 36 Old 01-03-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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I'll data log another idle file at operating temp and one snapping the throttle at WOT.

The data log in my first post where I have the car in 4th gear shows the misfire. When the counts go crazy is the misfire, but the MAF counts were all I data logged. I'll try to data log the misfire again with more PIDS. What all would you like to see for the misfire?
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post #8 of 36 Old 01-03-2019, 07:54 PM
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fuel trims
02
load
rpm
throttle position
maf

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #9 of 36 Old 01-03-2019, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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The WOT rev and misfire data log are both missing the bank 2 sensor 1 o2 sensor. I messed up when creating the file and didn't realize I had chose a rear o2 sensor instead.
Attached Images
File Type: png Idle and O2 Voltage.PNG (312.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: png WOT Rev and B1S1 O2 Voltage.PNG (134.4 KB, 9 views)
File Type: png Misfire PIDs.PNG (390.2 KB, 12 views)
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post #10 of 36 Old 01-04-2019, 12:26 PM
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Redo with both upstreams

look at first chart

Both your long terms are pegged in adding fuel

The ecm thinks you are lean......???


89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #11 of 36 Old 01-04-2019, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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I'm gonna perform a smoke test this weekend to see if I can track down any possible vacuum leaks. The car will see -18in.Hg in vacuum during a cold start. Once the car is up to temp the vacuum varies between -14 and -13. I have MHS stage 3 blower cams, so I'm assuming that amount of vacuum is correct for those particular profiles. They've since come out with a second generation of camshafts and I no longer remember the cam specs.

I'll also redo the data logs that were missing the b2s1 o2 readings this weekend.

This is something I should have mentioned in my first post, but I did pull two codes on the car a couple of months ago that indicate it being lean (P1132 and P1152). I had drove the car for months off and on before those codes finally came up. I deleted the codes to see if they would come back when I first got them and they haven't popped back up yet.
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post #12 of 36 Old 01-04-2019, 07:52 PM
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you probably still have a p1000

so the codes will probably be pending.....

dont need codes when you see trims like that


i think you have maf issues........

can you log DC of the frequency?

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #13 of 36 Old 01-05-2019, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Could I log the DC as a PID? Or would I need to splice into the pigtail and use a multimeter?

Also I tried unplugging the MAF and the misfire/hesitation goes away when I try to hold the revs around 2,000.

I still need to datalog the misfire while driving, so I'll upload that here later today.
Attached Images
File Type: png WOT Rev B1S1 and B2S1.PNG (226.3 KB, 11 views)
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post #14 of 36 Old 01-05-2019, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Misfire datalog:
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File Type: png Datalog Misfire #2.PNG (452.0 KB, 13 views)
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post #15 of 36 Old 01-05-2019, 01:57 PM
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one more

with the same PIDS as the last one

hot engine

from idle, to 1000rpm hold for 5 sec, then 2000rpm then 3000rpm

hold those rpms for a min of 5 seconds

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #16 of 36 Old 01-05-2019, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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1,000
2,000
3,000
Attached Images
File Type: png 1000rpm.PNG (358.9 KB, 23 views)
File Type: png 2000rpm.PNG (415.1 KB, 21 views)
File Type: png 3000rpms.PNG (442.9 KB, 16 views)
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post #17 of 36 Old 01-05-2019, 06:31 PM
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those are nice!

what direction do you get from those logs?

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #18 of 36 Old 01-05-2019, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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I’m thinking bad maf. This is my first time with data logging, so hopefully I’m not missing something that you are seeing
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post #19 of 36 Old 01-05-2019, 07:47 PM
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ask yourself

was it misfiring while doing the 3 logs?

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #20 of 36 Old 01-06-2019, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Not in the first one, but in the second and third there was
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post #21 of 36 Old 01-06-2019, 07:24 PM
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it appears you might have two issues, from those logs

1. maf and or wiring, there seems to be a lot of noise and drop outs
2. the fuel trims with the rpm tests, suggest you have an air leak

i would first check for air leak, as suggest a smoke test

and log again, you should find that long term trims at idle should counter to 1, if the air leak is fixed

as far as maf, you would need a scope to actually check the signal correctly

you can perform a voltage drop test to verify the power and grounds are sound, a poor ground could result in a poor signal

try that and report what you find.

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #22 of 36 Old 01-09-2019, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Just had a shop perform a smoke test and they didn’t find any leaks
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post #23 of 36 Old 01-10-2019, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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I got 12v on the maf ground, power, and maf return wires with key on, engine off. The maf sensor signal return wire was only at 0.03-0.13v while running. Doesn’t go any higher when revving the car either
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post #24 of 36 Old 01-10-2019, 10:30 PM
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you are not going to be able to measure the maf signal unless you have it on hz or a high speed o-scope

tell me where your leads were during the volt test

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #25 of 36 Old 01-10-2019, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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I used the battery and stuck a paper clip in through the back of the connector on the side that goes to the wiring harness
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post #26 of 36 Old 01-11-2019, 09:14 AM
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battery positive or negative?

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #27 of 36 Old 01-11-2019, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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For the power and maf signal I attached the black lead to the negative side of the battery. For the ground and maf return I attached the red lead to the positive side of the battery
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post #28 of 36 Old 01-11-2019, 03:24 PM
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Leave lead on batt negative

And re test the grounds at the maf

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #29 of 36 Old 01-12-2019, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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I got 0.03v for both grounds and lead left on the negative side of battery
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post #30 of 36 Old 01-13-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellB03 View Post
I got 0.03v for both grounds and lead left on the negative side of battery
this was with the key in run, correct?

if so, the maf wiring power and grounds seem good

only possibilities is the maf signal, this could be at the maf, or signal wire to the ecm

to measure the signal, frequency, you need the tool to measure frequency

so its up to you, new maf or not

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #31 of 36 Old 01-19-2019, 09:50 AM
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any update?

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #32 of 36 Old 01-20-2019, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Nothing as of yet. I ordered a new BA2600 maf and was sent a BA3000. So will be a little longer for an update
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post #33 of 36 Old 01-23-2019, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
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Just an update since it’s been awhile. New maf and still having the same issue. Will update again when I find the issue for anyone that is having the same problem
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post #34 of 36 Old 03-13-2019, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Been away from the car for a little while, but finally got some time to take a look over the maf signal wiring and didn't come across any issues. Still need to measure the maf signal frequency. Have been talking to my tuner and if all else fails I'll be having him take a look over the car in the next couple of months.
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post #35 of 36 Old 04-09-2019, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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Just to update in case anyone has similar issues. I believe the issue is fixed. I relocated the bypass valve. The previous setup had a slight kink in the dishcharge hose and must have been enough of a restriction to cause a misfire. The datalogs of the maf counts aren’t erratic like they were before and so far I haven’t been able to initiate the misfire. Goes to show to not look over the simple things
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