Guys in Florida. To cat or not to cat? - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #36 of 68 Old 12-21-2001, 03:44 PM
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Yes, and whe that day comes that I get that card in the mail, which states "Time to get your car checked." I will jack the car up, put on the catted pipe, go to the drive in, blow exhaust gases at them, get my sticker, go home and change the pipe back, and go back to bed.

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post #37 of 68 Old 12-21-2001, 04:15 PM
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Joe...The "do gooders" know that trick. They'll come up with something tougher to get around. They will get you in the pocket book. How about a huge tax on anything with over 150 HP, additional taxes on premium fuel, additional taxes on any off road products such as exhaust systems or tires, taxes on engine sizes (love my son's old CRX), political pressure to close race tracks, raise insurance premiums on performance cars etc. Then tax credits for car pooling, electric cars, scrapping fairly new cars, using mass transit, etc. These are hot topics at "green" meetings.
I just don't think defiance is the way to fight this. I think you fight this by showing you are a better American than they are, that your exhaust is cleaner than theirs, that you have more interest in the real enviropment than they do, that your solutuions are more practical then theirs, etc. And quietly figure out how to make 600 HP cleanly. MHO and I'm done with this subject...goining to the strip tonight...it's going to be cold. See all you guys around and Merry Christmas to all.


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post #38 of 68 Old 12-21-2001, 04:20 PM
 
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Everyone should buy a Harley that gets about 45 mpg and satisfy everyone.
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post #39 of 68 Old 12-21-2001, 04:34 PM
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Ralph,

With all due respect, thats a load of shiit!

A better American? Well excuse the fvck out of me! I patriotically serve this country everyday of the week through my employer. I may not fly the fighter, or the rotary-wing, or wear the camouflage that the troops do, but I do my part by helping to make the planes, elctronics, and munitions that are used on a daily defense of our country. So keep the better American speech for someone else.

Also, for point about the "do-gooders", where exactly do you stand? First you stand on the side of the fence that says Pro+Cats. Then you jump that said fence and call "Do-Gooders"??
Maybe there are gray areas to the argument, maybe its not as black and white as I see it. But at least I picked a side to stand on, and won't budge from it.

Ralph, we have met in person, and I think you are a standup guy, with a lot of knowledge and experience, but save the "Youth is ignorant" underlying tones for someone else. I may not be older by numbers, but I have around the block quite a few times already.

Maybe I will be out at the track tonight, or maybe I will stay off the road with my "Environment Killing" vehicle!

Joe

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post #40 of 68 Old 12-21-2001, 05:08 PM
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Joe...Slow down...I said be a better American than the do gooders...They inply you are less American then they because they say you don't care about the environment. My point is you have to show you care about the real environment, not the fake science some of them spew.
You can't win with the "my car don't pollute much and even if it does it pollutes less than something else" and "anyway it's my car to do with as I please" argument.
And sure I don't have a problem running cats, I admit. I don't think they clean my exhaust much, but I'll run them.
I'm certainly not implying you are less American than anyone else,and/or you are young and ignorant. But i have dealt with polititians in my career and they are very clever at getting their way. They have more experience at this stuff then we do. Peace.

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post #41 of 68 Old 12-21-2001, 05:10 PM
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Can you imagine the hysteria that would ensue if some "real" environmentalists stumbled onto this thread? A bunch of hot-rodders talking about what they're doing for the environment by running cats makes as much sense as the big industry being able to crush old cars for polluting passes. Everyone who drives a car is a polluter....it's just a matter of degrees, and not very many degrees at that.
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post #42 of 68 Old 12-21-2001, 07:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenGT
Yes, and whe that day comes that I get that card in the mail, which states "Time to get your car checked." I will jack the car up, put on the catted pipe, go to the drive in, blow exhaust gases at them, get my sticker, go home and change the pipe back, and go back to bed.

Whoopee!

Joe
I think the fine in Florida now if caught by the FHP with no cats on your car is like $2500.00. To me not worth the fine or the chance of getting caught.

Secondly they already have a system in place in the UK that can sniff for emmisions when your car passes by on the road. I don't think it will be long before we see that here. If you notice in Georgia in the 6 years they switched from the old just stick the car in neutral and let it idle to the put the back wheels on a load machine and run the car at 30mph. A little harder to fool the system that way.

But hey if you really think your smarter then all the engineers that design this stuff and the politicians who create the laws then to each his own.

Eventually you will get caught it's really just a matter of when.
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post #43 of 68 Old 12-21-2001, 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by BLKCobra01

I think the fine in Florida now if caught by the FHP with no cats on your car is like $2500.00. To me not worth the fine or the chance of getting caught.
Yes, thats the fine, that has been the fine, and probably will be the fine for awhile!

Quote:
Secondly they already have a system in place in the UK that can sniff for emmisions when your car passes by on the road. I don't think it will be long before we see that here. If you notice in Georgia in the 6 years they switched from the old just stick the car in neutral and let it idle to the put the back wheels on a load machine and run the car at 30mph. A little harder to fool the system that way.
Thank god the brilliant laws in the UK don't work here. Maybe they are afraid of all the cows breakin ass on the sides of the roads, hmm, can you imagine the false readings there? haha Who was talking about foolin the system. Changing pipes could be done by a one-armed man, in less time than it takes to read this stupid thread.

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But hey if you really think your smarter then all the engineers that design this stuff and the politicians who create the laws then to each his own.
Actually, I do consider myself exponentially more intelligent than the politicians who create these assinine laws. And the engineers, who ever created the idea of the catalytic converter was obviously more of a politician than an engineer.

Quote:
Eventually you will get caught it's really just a matter of when.
Then at time I will pay the fine, if it ever goes anywhere.

But hey thanks for the info, you can take my place in this thread posting stupid facts. I am done with this one. I have to go make sure Greenpeace isn't out front protesting.

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Joe

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post #44 of 68 Old 12-21-2001, 11:17 PM
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I think the fine in Florida now if caught by the FHP with no cats on your car is like $2500.00. To me not worth the fine or the chance of getting caught.
Actually I thought the fine was $10,000 but honestly who cares. I've been pulled over before and asked if I had cats I blatently said no to state troopers and two different sherrifs. What did they do? Nothing. I've never heard of any one in any of the 50 states actually seeing that fine. I drove my 92 LX without cats for 4 years and my 2000 without for 2 years and never had a problem.

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If you notice in Georgia in the 6 years they switched from the old just stick the car in neutral and let it idle to the put the back wheels on a load machine and run the car at 30mph. A little harder to fool the system that way.
This is how they did it in Florida or at least in West Palm until they stopped the testing. Amazing how my 92LX, carburated, b303 cammed car could pass the sniffer test with no cats even at 30 MPH.

Bill
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post #45 of 68 Old 12-25-2001, 12:42 AM
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If you notice in Georgia in the 6 years they switched from the old just stick the car in neutral and let it idle to the put the back wheels on a load machine and run the car at 30mph. A little harder to fool the system that way.
Well, I actually have experience with the Goergia test AND the Florida test. Having had my car tested in Palm Beach County for the last four years prior to moving to Craplanta, the Florida test was actually no less stringent than the Georgia test. I took my 90 LX into have it tested in Georgia last month. It had NO emissions equipment other than the stock H-pipe. I mean NONE. No EGR, no charcoal cannister, no air injection, no smog pump, no PCV, nothing at all.


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But hey if you really think your smarter then all the engineers that design this stuff and the politicians who create the laws then to each his own.
LOL. I am an engineer, and politicians are only concerned with money. They will do whatever is in thier best interest. If making laws regarding emissions is in thier best interest, then they will pass it regardless of what it says.

Stop being a sheep, original though works wonders.


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Eventually you will get caught it's really just a matter of when.
Nah, not really.

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post #46 of 68 Old 12-25-2001, 01:33 AM
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To cat or not to cat?

I got a dog, her name is Maggie:


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post #47 of 68 Old 12-25-2001, 01:28 PM
 
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No Cats...

Hello, I just put on an Custom O/R X-Pipe and I love it....
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post #48 of 68 Old 12-26-2001, 02:13 AM
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offroad pipes all the way

I live in Arkansas where there is no such thing as emission's tests. They (the government) used to require annual vehicle inspections for things like signals and lights working, wipers, and that was pretty much it. Sometimes they would check for exhaust leak by stuffing the tail pipe with rag and seeing if the engine dies. (they didn't like my headers and loud exhaust) Anyways, they decided that there wasn't any revenue being generated by this so they stopped. Now, we renue our tags by mail. I guess it was one of Clinton's good acts as governer. I have never used cats on any exahust upgrade, simply because its easier and cheaper not to. I own 3 acres of trees and grass to beath in any polution I produce.



Putting aside the political discussions. I have a technical question about offroad H-pipes. I heard there can be a problem with the computer if you install an H-pipe on the new motors with duel 02's on each side. I am working on installing a 99 Cobra motor into a 67 Cougar and they never had cats on them new, and why would I want them now. Seams like I read somewhere that you can install something that "fool" the computer into thinking you have cats.
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post #49 of 68 Old 12-26-2001, 03:55 AM
 
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Catalyst harmful to environment

From CNN.com:
[Harley explained that the root of the problem may be catalytic converters that work too well. When nitrogen oxide from the engine's exhaust is "over-reduced," a complex chemical reaction ensues. Ammonia gas (NH3) forms in the catalytic converter, which is then emitted from the vehicle's tailpipe.

"Catalytic converters have played a major part in reducing air pollution caused by automobiles. Unfortunately, this research suggests that while fixing one problem, the converters have caused an unexpected secondary problem," said Andrew Kean, a graduate student in Harley's laboratory.

"I am confident that if the catalytic converters were not being used, we wouldn't see the high ammonia emissions that we saw," Kean said. "Though they have been very helpful to reducing air pollution from cars, catalytic converters have caused ammonia levels to increase." ]

From www.orgalab.de:
[Thus, the importance of testing for the presence of the PGE metals Platinum, Rhodium, and Palladium has increased accordingly. This is directly related to the dramatic upsurge, beginning in the 1980's, in the use of these elements in catalytic converters for the purification of automobile exhaust...
Because of the high temperature within the catalytic converter as well as the high amount of exhaust passing through, small amounts of the catalytically active metals are expelled through mechanical friction with the rest of the exhaust, thus entering into the environment. In investigations both in the laboratory and in the field, it was discovered that up to 5 micrograms per kilogram can be emitted. As well, one cubic meter of exhaust, at 100 km/h, may contain about 15 nanograms.While the major part of these emitted metals will remain in the soil, a small amount may be transmitted in mobile form, ending up in bodies of water. The danger lies in the possibility that the mobile PGE metals may be absorbed by plants, and through the food chain end up being ingested by humans. In a study done in Munich, for example, there were considerable concentrations found in grass cultures with long-term exposure alongside well-traveled roadways. In more thorough investigations, high concentrations of Platinum and Rhodium were found in various environmental sectors, and not only in those in the immediate vicinity of roadways.
The allergy-causing properties of Platinum and Palladium are especially well-known. People with long-term occupational exposure to soluble Platinum suffer from so-called Platinumosis,and experience problems with their skin and lungs. Certain Platinum compounds cause more virulent reactions. Palladium can cause especially strong allergic reactions. Thus far, concentrations found in environmental studies have been well under the threshold for causing any effects which have yet been observed, but, over time, increased concentrations are to be expected. It is especially worth noting because even the smallest concentrations can affect the organism. As has happened so many times before in history, an originally good idea has had unintended negative consequences.]

Include this with a recent study finding further increased carcinogenic properties of platinum, palladium, and rhodium and cats may be changing soon anyhow.

Add to this fact that cars are becoming so increasingly efficient in the combustion process that some of you guys have passed emissions without cats!!!

If my cats melted and stopped up (have in the past on an '85 LTD I had) I'd go cat-free.

More studies are finding that our world is faring better than we thought, eating more of the bad crap than we expected. Seeing that it is 4am, I don't feel up to looking up more info for you guys. Just trust me that it is being proven that the "global warming" trend isn't our fault... it's just that time of the month for ol' mother earth.

FWIW, I work in nuclear propulsion (guess that makes me a submariner) and I hear all about EPA bull$h1t and emissions (nocturnal included). on Green Peace.

-lil ol me
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post #50 of 68 Old 12-26-2001, 10:18 PM
 
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While everyone will give there opnions on this there are many things to remember.
1. If you dont mind paying a fine, if you get caught, then go ahead and get rid of the cats.
2. If you want the deepest, loudest exhaust then get rid of the cats.
3. If you have a heavily moded mustang and the reduced back pressure will benefit you then go ahead and get rid of the cats. But I can promise you that if you have a relatively stock gt and run straight through mufflers, dumps, etc.. and a cattless hpipe- you will reduce your hp. Slight back pressure is needed for a stock gt.

So if all this is fine with you- you dont care about the fine, want the loudest exhaust, and need to reduce the back pressure- then get rid of the cats, if not, then keep them.

Sg
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post #51 of 68 Old 12-27-2001, 01:14 AM
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But I can promise you that if you have a relatively stock gt and run straight through mufflers, dumps, etc.. and a cattless hpipe- you will reduce your hp.
LOL. You shouldn't make promises that can't be kept.
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post #52 of 68 Old 12-27-2001, 01:36 AM
 
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Originally posted by Gibby
At the risk of being flamed, I think you guys may be missing the point. First, how many aircraft are flying in the US at any given time? 1,000 - 10,000 - 100,000? Then, how many cars are on US highways at any given time? 10 million? 100 million? There's no argument that most point sources are worse than any given automobile, but there are so many more cars than there are other point sources. That's what makes the difference.

All that being said, a few uncatted mustangs out there certainly won't make a perceptible difference in air quality. Let's face it, the performance enthusiast is a vast minority on the road. As long as everyone else maintains their emissions controls, I don't think an offroad H-pipe will make a difference. When the cats on my Bassani X finally give up, I'm getting an off road pipe. Unless Jeb gets voted out
BWWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! this is like we, most cars have cats, so aslong as they do we can do whatever we want!!!!!! hahaa i like it. But i just switched to an o/r x tonight! I love it!
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post #53 of 68 Old 04-14-2002, 11:51 PM
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For all you catalytic nay-sayers....I hate to feed this fire again, but so I must.

Some of us care, do our part, and are required by law to run CATALYTIC CONVERTERS and have it inspected annually.

Little experiment for you, if you want to argue about it. Go get an emissions test without converters. Then, put the converters on and go get it tested again.

Very easy, scientific test. Do it and get back to me if you don't think converters do anything to clean up the exhaust gases.

that is all for now.

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Last edited by lo pony; 04-14-2002 at 11:54 PM.
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post #54 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 12:17 AM
 
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"Don't be a *****, lose the cats."
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post #55 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 12:20 AM
 
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Some of us care, do our part, and are required by law to run CATALYTIC CONVERTERS and have it inspected annually.
Just so you know, you've already broken the law by removing your stock H-pipe. Doesn't matter whether or not your replacement pipe has cats. By tampering with functioning catalytic converters, you're subject to the same laws as those that remove them entirely.

So you might want to pick a new angle to act high and mighty and preachy about.

This isn't modular tech, either.
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post #56 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 12:22 AM
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Just so YOU know - most emissions testing locations do not care how many, or what brand of converters you have on your car, as long as it passes the test.

Nothing preachy about my post. Try the simple experiment. I don't care about semantics - only results.

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post #57 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 12:44 AM
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Most Mustangs, tuned correctly, will pass the tailpipe sniffer test without catayltic converters. So, if it passes the test, what difference does it make?
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post #58 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 12:48 AM
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Hey Jared - I knew it was only a matter of time before someone said this...

I've heard of this before. Congratulations if you're one of the few who can achieve it. I guarantee my car would NOT pass if I removed the converters - not here in Atlanta!

There is absolutely no way one can tune for every different environmental variable to control emmissions (or performance for that matter), without yanking the computer or reprogamming it every single day. I agree that, in theory, it can be achieved but 99.99 percent of the motoring populous doesn't have the means, or time, to adjust for every single variable. The EEC can only adjust itself so much... If these cars could meet emissions without catalytic converters, do you not think that Ford would have omitted them? (and gone ahead and charged us for them anyway?)

Still doesn't answer the question of "do converters clean up the exhaust?" - of course they do. That's why I have them.

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Last edited by lo pony; 04-15-2002 at 01:07 AM.
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post #59 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 11:43 AM
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This thread, the 11 muffler threads, and the 14 cams threads, from the first page of the Mod Forum, are the exact reason why people don't post here anymore.

Who the fvck cares if your car has cats? Who the fvck cares if mine doesn't? The thread didn't need reviving, nice job!

joe


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post #60 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 12:49 PM
 
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Diesel Misconception...

You guys have a misconception of Diesel fuel being dirty and that nothing is being done about it. In fact there are EPA regulations and changes going into effect to reduce the harmful gases of diesel products. And they are taking the best approach on changing the engine to produce less gases AND changing the fuel to contain less harmful materials.
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...f?OpenDocument
http://www.greendieseltechnology.com

Gasoline is doing the same with adding Ethanol to fuel. The realization pointed out in previous postings about the fuel being a good part of the problem is finally being delt with.

At any rate, get your car tuned well and you will pass emissions with or without cats, because as stated earlier the cat wears out around 40k miles but cars still pass with 100k plus miles.
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post #61 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 01:41 PM
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I care if your car doesn't have converters - I have to breathe the exhaust.

What's so bad about this thread? It's very relevent to hot rodding now and in the future. You must be hearing something you don't want to hear, in which case, just don't read the thread.

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Last edited by lo pony; 04-15-2002 at 01:44 PM.
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post #62 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 01:47 PM
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I will be sure at every light from here on out, to give the car an extra rev. Just in case you are nearby!

joe

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post #63 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 04:43 PM
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I love my cats I wouldn't remove them no matter what. Where else am I'm going to get something else to hold down all the other exhaust parts lying against my garage wall.

I'm glad you care so much about us "law" breakers but do you really think that your going to change peoples minds and that we're going to feel "guilty" and run out and put cats on our cars? We all know a car with cats will run cleaner than one without that's a given but with a proper tune you can get pretty damn close.

I'm agree with Joe and extra rev everywhere I go just in case you may be following behind. While your at it why not attend the FFW race this weekend and tell everyone out there to up cats on their cars?

Where's the tech?

Bill

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post #64 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 04:46 PM
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Bill, Tech in the Modular Tech Forum?? You know better than that...

joe

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post #65 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 05:18 PM
 
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FLORIDA!!!

hey guys I am moving to florida from PA in June to the Ft. Lauderdale area. My company is housing me for 3 months and then I have to find a place to live in the area. Where should I live.
I am 22 years of age starting out with 35,000 a year and need an apartment. It needs to be in the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami vicinity.

Give me some ideas, and I love the no emmissions thing

DAVE
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post #66 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenGT
This thread, the 11 muffler threads, and the 14 cams threads, from the first page of the Mod Forum, are the exact reason why people don't post here anymore.

Who the fvck cares if your car has cats? Who the fvck cares if mine doesn't? The thread didn't need reviving, nice job!

joe

Hahaha!! Too funny. Don't forget about the 20 powerpipe threads and 1 million magnapack threads. Damn what the hell happened to tech You look at ls1tech.com and they have tons of tech. Look how far they have gotten in the performance world. Instead of reading about ways to go faster, I have to see the same b.s. about mufflers what body kit to go with.

By the way, toss the cats. I've been pulled over for speeding and the cop asked me what exhaust I had on the car and I told him I had longtubes with an offroad h. He said the car sounded good.

tree huggers

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post #67 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 05:45 PM
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I'm not the original starter of this post - it was here all along. I didn't move it here.

I don't doubt that people's minds will be changed, even subtlely. Mine was - it took a while, though. Especially when you have to drive around in smog and deal with ground level ozone in the summer.

And to you, all this probably sounds as ridiculous as you telling me to take the "useless" cats off my car.

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post #68 of 68 Old 04-15-2002, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lo pony
And to you, all this probably sounds as ridiculous as you telling me to take the "useless" cats off my car.
I never told you to take the cats off your car or that they were useless. You can do whatever you want with them I could care less but the last thing we need on here is someone preaching to the rest of us how we are ruining the world with our O/R pipes. You can talk all you want O/R pipes will be used till the end of time deal with it.

Bill

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