So I really did it this time.. - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 64 Old 06-14-2019, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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So I really did it this time..

I ran out of Fuel Pump.. The tune is coming along, but lately I was having a lean issue.. This perfectly coincided with the warmer weather.. I'm simply out of fuel pump.

I think the Walbro 450 will take up the slack where my 340 left off.. Will this fit on the SN95 Hanger?? I'm trying to kick around some options..

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/v...0274/overview/

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post #2 of 64 Old 06-15-2019, 12:39 AM
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Look into the 525 hellcat pump, that's what i just did.

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post #3 of 64 Old 06-15-2019, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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I seen that one. They're saying it's really a 470.. Does it fit in the tank opening? This is all I'm worried about. Do you have any build pics?
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post #4 of 64 Old 06-15-2019, 12:14 PM
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I used pliers to pry the opening up large enough to drop the pump in, then flattened it all back out with a brass punch and hammer and locked it in.

It's a little bit of a pain. My plan b was an Aeromotive eliminator stealth tank for 1300.

Also had to run a new relay and fuel pump wire upgrade, 8 or 10 guage i think.
To keep the amp draw low.
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post #5 of 64 Old 06-15-2019, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah man, a new tank setup is bucks I really don't have right now. I'll go with the 470. Thanks!
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post #6 of 64 Old 06-15-2019, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a test I found. The 470 probably has more winding's on the motor.

Blog Post Testing the TI Automotive (Walbro) F90000285 Fuel Pump
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post #7 of 64 Old 06-15-2019, 04:50 PM
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Glenn’s performance makes some nice fuel system components.

How much Hp you at now?

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422WHP/456Ft/lb. Tuned using QH by Tony @ Tuners Inc.
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post #8 of 64 Old 06-16-2019, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
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7-750-775. My 340 can't maintain pressure at this level. It's falling flat the hotter it gets outside..
The Hellcat should be good for the limits of 93 octane. That's what my goal is..15ish psi on the street.

I like the King King pickup they have. If I was going racer I'd consider that one with an external pump.

http://www.glennsperformance.com/pro...roducts_id=251
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post #9 of 64 Old 06-16-2019, 08:11 AM
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ON3 has a nice triple pump hat for fuel tanks. I have their hat with three of there 340 pumps on my car.

Here's the hat but they also have a complete system if you need to go that route:

https://www.on3performance.com/shop/...-hat-assembly/

ks


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post #10 of 64 Old 06-16-2019, 08:30 AM
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7-750-775. My 340 can't maintain pressure at this level. It's falling flat the hotter it gets outside..
The Hellcat should be good for the limits of 93 octane. That's what my goal is..15ish psi on the street.

I like the King King pickup they have. If I was going racer I'd consider that one with an external pump.

http://www.glennsperformance.com/pro...roducts_id=251
Yes I was thinking about going that route. I was looking at the aeromotive stealth hanger, but I like the fact that the Glenn’s has the larger fittings. I’d like to run some -10 and -8 lines and be done with it.


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422WHP/456Ft/lb. Tuned using QH by Tony @ Tuners Inc.
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post #11 of 64 Old 06-23-2019, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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So I got the Hellcat in there.. I hit 85% duty cycle today! killin it..

I death wheeled about 1-1/4" off the bottom of the Hanger and drilled a couple of holes so I could safety wired it in there. It's not moving.. I just soldered the wires, wrapped them in vacuum hose and zip tied them to the Hanger so they won't move or chafe.. The connector that came with the Pump is too big to cram in the Tank opening. Otherwise, it all fit in the opening real nice with no mods to the Tank at all.







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post #12 of 64 Old 06-24-2019, 07:58 AM
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So I got the Hellcat in there.. I hit 85% duty cycle today! killin it..
Honestly, I think you're going to make things worst at this point with the stk. fuel pump hanger and that pump. If you're at approx. 750rwhp it might be time for an upgrade fuel system (fuel pump, larger supply and return fuel lines, fuel regulator, fuel rail, etc.).

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ium8jf4Jm04

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dP6Pogm6Ts0

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post #13 of 64 Old 06-24-2019, 09:04 AM
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I'm using a "450" in my stock fuel system as well without issue for the past 3 years. I have stock hanger, lines, and rails, then installed a 450 with 80lb injectors running e85 and haven't seen any indication of a lean condition so far in my tuning so we'll see if it becomes an issue as i increase the boost more.
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post #14 of 64 Old 06-24-2019, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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That's an SN95 Hanger with -8 and -6 fittings welded to the tubes upgraded with 12 gauge wire. I got it from Quantum a few years ago. 1/2" id rails in parallel with ss braided lines. Separate relay with 10 gauge off the battery. Got it covered.

I don't see it available separately but here it is with a pump.

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-71991...0lph-pump.html

But yeah, anything above this and I would think about a new system.
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post #15 of 64 Old 06-24-2019, 09:23 AM
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With a near full tank of fuel the aeration of fuel would be mitigated due to the return fuel now being below the fuel level. Once you get 1/2 tank or below, I could easily see were the fuel system could struggle to deliver the correct fuel pressure and volume.

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post #16 of 64 Old 06-24-2019, 09:35 AM
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That's an SN95 Hanger with -8 and -6 fittings welded to the tubes upgraded with 12 gauge wire. I got it from Quantum a few years ago. 1/2" id rails in parallel with ss braided lines. Separate relay with 10 gauge off the battery. Got it covered.
Based on the link, and photos you posted it looks like the return tube has been enlarged which is important. The return line should be lengthened, and extend all the way to the bottom of the hanger, this will allow fuel to flow directly to the bottom of the tank, preventing fuel aeration. Aerated fuel is not good situation to have.

Good luck with your setup
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post #17 of 64 Old 06-24-2019, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Damn, that would have been an easy mod.
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post #18 of 64 Old 06-24-2019, 05:02 PM
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That's an SN95 Hanger with -8 and -6 fittings welded to the tubes upgraded with 12 gauge wire. I got it from Quantum a few years ago. 1/2" id rails in parallel with ss braided lines. Separate relay with 10 gauge off the battery. Got it covered.

I don't see it available separately but here it is with a pump.

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-71991...0lph-pump.html

But yeah, anything above this and I would think about a new system.
I wouldn't use that garbage if you gave it to me. It's a -6 fitting welded on. It's still a 1/4" return and a restriction, no matter how small is a restriction.

Look into the pro m hanger or the new aeromotive fox body hanger and swap a 450 on to it.

Also look into the Deatchwerks 400. E85 compatible and quiet. Supposedly outflows the 525.
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post #19 of 64 Old 06-24-2019, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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lol.. The car runs really good..
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post #20 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 05:34 AM
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But a proper fuel system design takes a lot of the "tuning" problems out of the equation.
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post #21 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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What tuning problems do I have?
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post #22 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 09:28 AM
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I wouldn't use that garbage if you gave it to me. It's a -6 fitting welded on. It's still a 1/4" return and a restriction, no matter how small is a restriction.

Look into the pro m hanger or the new aeromotive fox body hanger and swap a 450 on to it.

Also look into the Deatchwerks 400. E85 compatible and quiet. Supposedly outflows the 525.
While I agree with your logic and prefer a -8 return people are running 9's at 150mph with a -8 feed and a -6 return..

Personally, I use a -8 feed and a -8 return, make over 900hp on E85, and DC is just under 70% with 160inj.


ks
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post #23 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 09:35 AM
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While I agree with your logic and prefer a -8 return people are running 9's at 150mph with a -8 feed and a -6 return..

Personally, I use a -8 feed and a -8 return, make over 900hp on E85, and DC is just under 70% with 160inj.


ks
-6 is fine. My problem is hooking up a -6 line to a 1/4" factory return tube. That's where the restriction is and that will affect fuel pressure.

What pump(s) are you running? Duel 450's?
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post #24 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 09:40 AM
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-6 is fine. My problem is hooking up a -6 line to a 1/4" factory return tube. That's where the restriction is and that will affect fuel pressure.

What pump(s) are you running? Duel 450's?
Unless I missed something in the above posts I'm guessing that since that hanger is all custom made with larger tubes that the return is a -6 size and not the factory -4.

Here's the MFR's description:

HFP's -8AN/ -6AN fuel pump hanger for 1979-1995 Mustangs allows you to run a -8AN feed hose and -6AN return hose directly from the top of the tank, up to the motor. A brand new OEM 1994-1995 pickup is used (which has a larger 3/8" outlet compared to the fox body's 5/16" outlet), to optimize volume capabilities when using the larger -8AN feed hose.

I'm running triple 340's with two pumps coming on at 7psi.

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post #25 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 10:52 AM
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I wouldn't use that garbage if you gave it to me. It's a -6 fitting welded on. It's still a 1/4" return and a restriction, no matter how small is a restriction.

Look into the pro m hanger or the new aeromotive fox body hanger and swap a 450 on to it.

Also look into the Deatchwerks 400. E85 compatible and quiet. Supposedly outflows the 525.
Why is a small pressure drop in the return line at the tank a problem?

Even if it was returning 100% of the fuel needed for ~1000HP (84 gal/hour @0.5 BSFC), the drop across 2 feet of 1/4" line would be about 1.3 PSI. Perhaps I'm missing something?

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post #26 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 11:01 AM
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While I agree with your logic and prefer a -8 return people are running 9's at 150mph with a -8 feed and a -6 return..
ks
Perfectly fine for a track car or lightly driven street car but for a daily driver that sits in traffic it MAY be a problem. In the past, I had a situation where you could actually hear gasoline boiling in the fuel tank, then my external fuel pump (Magnfuel) wouldn't restart when I ran into a store for a few minutes and my fuel pressure was always fluctuating 4-6 psi on long trips or sitting in traffic. In the end, I upgraded my return line to a -8, installed an Aeromotive Eliminator intank fuel pump along with speed controller, and a vent from iimuch.

Thanks
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post #27 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 11:59 AM
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Unless I missed something in the above posts I'm guessing that since that hanger is all custom made with larger tubes that the return is a -6 size and not the factory -4.

Here's the MFR's description:

HFP's -8AN/ -6AN fuel pump hanger for 1979-1995 Mustangs allows you to run a -8AN feed hose and -6AN return hose directly from the top of the tank, up to the motor. A brand new OEM 1994-1995 pickup is used (which has a larger 3/8" outlet compared to the fox body's 5/16" outlet), to optimize volume capabilities when using the larger -8AN feed hose.

I'm running triple 340's with two pumps coming on at 7psi.

ks
They still run factory 1/4 return. Not true 3/8 like the pro m and aeromotive fox hanger. The outlet is fine.
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post #28 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 12:04 PM
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Why is a small pressure drop in the return line at the tank a problem?

Even if it was returning 100% of the fuel needed for ~1000HP (84 gal/hour @0.5 BSFC), the drop across 2 feet of 1/4" line would be about 1.3 PSI. Perhaps I'm missing something?
It wouldn't be a small pressure drop, it would be an increase in pressure because the 1/4 return line wouldn't allow the pump to flow at it's capacity back to the tank. This is often why people out adjustable fpr on their rail. To give the illusion that the pressure of the rail matches the specified flow rate of the injectors.

In reality, it isn't.
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post #29 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 12:25 PM
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It wouldn't be a small pressure drop, it would be an increase in pressure because the 1/4 return line wouldn't allow the pump to flow at it's capacity back to the tank. This is often why people out adjustable fpr on their rail. To give the illusion that the pressure of the rail matches the specified flow rate of the injectors.

In reality, it isn't.
But that's not true, I did the math. Also, lots of people use 1/4" return line from regulator all the way to tank at his power level, nevermind that we're only talking about the last foot at the hat.

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post #30 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 12:36 PM
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If your running 3/8 line to a 1/4" line, shows up in low speed drivability and idle where the pump is running at it's output and 95% is being returned back to tank. Then the 1/4 line is a restriction.

At wot, the engine is using a lot more fuel and less is being returned back to tank. I bet looking at a fuel pressure gauge, you would see a spike in pressure as soon as you let off the pedal during a wot blast/Dyno pull whatever.

Driving wot and driving around town are 2 different animals.
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post #31 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 12:36 PM
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They still run factory 1/4 return. Not true 3/8 like the pro m and aeromotive fox hanger. The outlet is fine.

Who is "they"?

I think the OP is using -6 return and the hat uses -6 size tubing so I'm not quite sure where you're getting -4? Unless you're just speaking in a general sense that if someone used that hat with a complete factory -4 return line...? Then, yep, I would agree..

Again, maybe I'm missing something in your concern..?

ks


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post #32 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 12:43 PM
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Stock mustang 88lph right? Put on a 255lph and watch pressure jump up. Aside from putting an adjustable fpr on and using stock. Pressure will definitely increase and this will cause driveability problems and cause fuel pump cavitation.

Ever wonder how everyone knows you have a 255 in tank? Loud as hell because it's trying to flow 255lph through tiny lines. It's impossible. So the pump is fighting itself.
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post #33 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 12:45 PM
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Who is "they"?

I think the OP is using -6 return and the hat uses -6 size tubing so I'm not quite sure where you're getting -4? Unless you're just speaking in a general sense that if someone used that hat with a complete factory -4 return line...? Then, yep, I would agree..

Again, maybe I'm missing something in your concern..?

ks
They are highflows hanger. Just a -6 fitting welded on to a 1/4" line.
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post #34 of 64 Old 06-25-2019, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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I checked my pressure after I got the new pump on and it was rock solid at 45 just where I set it 2 years ago. I don't think I have any problems. But thanks for the insight. I wish I would have added some hose to bring the return to the bottom of the Tank.. Not taking it down again unless it breaks!
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They are highflows hanger. Just a -6 fitting welded on to a 1/4" line.
Ah! That's what I was missing. Thnx!

ks


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