Four Cylinder World Class T-5 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-13-2019, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Four Cylinder World Class T-5

What are the differences between this transmission and the 8 cylinder WC T5? Besides the output shaft diameter and the ridiculously high gears. Thanks


Last edited by EvilGooses; 05-12-2019 at 10:47 PM. Reason: Adding pics and need more info
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post #2 of 20 Old 04-15-2019, 01:16 AM Thread Starter
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Anyone know the differences between these two transmissions?

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post #3 of 20 Old 04-15-2019, 07:56 AM
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Only rated for 240 lb-ft for one.
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post #4 of 20 Old 04-15-2019, 09:05 AM
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The main gearset is different. Countergear, input shaft, and 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear. All the synchro's and other parts are the same. 5th gear is the same.


My current T-5 is a former 4 cyl T-5 that i installed a 90-93 V8 gearset in. All i changed was the above parts, or worn parts. Been beating the snot out of it for 10 years without issue.

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post #5 of 20 Old 04-22-2019, 04:07 PM
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Also the input shaft has a smaller pilot.

They are very weak. Breakable with a turbo 2.3. Speaking from experience.....

'92GT, 427" and '93 "LXVO" coupe
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post #6 of 20 Old 04-22-2019, 04:48 PM
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What gets me is the 2.3 was rated at 90hp and 123lb-ft with aT5 rated for 240 lb-ft, while the 5.0 was rated at 225hp and 300lb-ft with a T5 rated for 300lb-ft. To have the same margin of over rating, the V8 T5 would have to have been rated at 590ish lb-ft. It would have made the T5 basically a TKO 500. If only the wrecking yards were littered with 550+ lb-ft rated T5's.
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post #7 of 20 Old 04-23-2019, 08:20 AM
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If only they were littered with anything fox body.

14 yards nearby, not a single fox.

Also, the 8 plug 2.3's had I think 112hp and a little more torque. Keep in mind that same basic T5 (240 lb-ft rating) was used behind the turbocoupes and turbo cougars; which had around 200hp and I think around 240 lb-ft-again-right at the upper end of borg-warner's torque rating. SVO's (85.5 and 86 only) had slightly more power but they also used a slightly different T5 (3.50 first gear). 84-85 SVO's had a 4.03 first gear (which SUCKED). I had one and put a 3.97 box in it which was better but still mismatched to the turbo engine's power curve.

My '93 has a SVO engine in it but with mods, and with a 3.97 first gear, traction is nonexistent. First and second gear. I need a 94-97 V6 transmission to put in it.

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post #8 of 20 Old 04-23-2019, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjm73 View Post
What gets me is the 2.3 was rated at 90hp and 123lb-ft with aT5 rated for 240 lb-ft, while the 5.0 was rated at 225hp and 300lb-ft with a T5 rated for 300lb-ft.
It's the actual gear ratio's themselves that dictate the strength, at least up to 1990 when I believe there was a material change. Up to 1990, the V8 T5 was actually rated at 265/275 tq. They didn't get 300 until 1990 with a slight gearing and material change. But if you took, say, a 1988 4cyl and v8 T-5, the internals of the trans are exactly the same except the gear ratios are different. Since the 4cy gearing is shorter, you get a bit more mechanical advantage with the gearing which is why the rating is lower.

I believe the 93-95 Cobra T5 gained 10 ft-lbs of torque rating simple by the addition of the pocket bearing design that helped reduce mainshaft spread. Of course, this is speculation, so don't quote me on that when this comes up in an internet search. Typically 3rd gear tends to be problematic because it's the furthest gear from any sort of bearing support. Under load, gears tend to want to spread and 3rd has the ability to move away from each other slightly. As gears spread, the teeth, where they contact, become thinner, and the risk of shear goes up. One way to improve T5 life it so stiffen up the mainshaft supports a bit. This might be a stronger case, a stronger mainshaft (which astro sells) or even the cobra pocket bearing mod.

Of course, 1st gear also has it's own problems with shearing the teeth off the input shaft/1st with a hard launch. But, this is gearing specific. If you had some crazy gear ratio of 16:1 for 1st, you could probably shear the teeth off with a stock 4cyl with a good clutch drop on sticky tires. The Z-spec's 2.95 1st gear is probably a good reason to the increased torque rating of that specific trans.

Disclaimer, i'm not a transmission expert, just someone who's rebuilt a few dozen or so on his own workbench. Take this all with a grain of salt

Mike
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post #9 of 20 Old 04-23-2019, 05:07 PM
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The spreading of the shafts is going to be a function of the stiffness of the steel used in them, not the strength of the steel. The stiffness of the steel is a function of the modulus of elasticity of the steel. This is almost a constant for all steels. Unless a steel aftermarket mainshaft has different geometry (thicker, for more bending stiffness) it can't reduce gear failure from shaft spreading.

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post #10 of 20 Old 05-12-2019, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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I have some pics of the transmission's internals. I did not take apart the shafts but noticed no damage on the gear teeth. I did however find a chunk of what appears to be a retaining clip.

Once again, I am not happy with the ratio of the 4 cylinder gear set and want to have the regular ratio. If anyone has a nicer set of laying around to upgrade please let me know.

OK, here are the pics.

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post #11 of 20 Old 05-13-2019, 10:03 AM
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THAt little clip piece is part of the clip that holds the three retainer fingers in place on either the 1-2 or 3-4 syncto assembly.

You can see the black clip here in this pic


Here's where you can buy those as a replacement part. Pretty sure the 1-2 and 3-4 clips are interchangible. These are typically included in a standard rebuild kit as well, so if you are getting one of those, new ones are included

https://astroperformance.com/product...-kit-a5-5-spd/

Or for all 3 synchros
https://astroperformance.com/product...ey-spring-kit/
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post #12 of 20 Old 05-17-2019, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE I've been getting bad news regarding the aftermarket gear sets sold on ebay. I've added up the costs to convert this thing and it would an incomplete rebuild as well as costly. I'm not sure about I'm going to go with that now.

I have also completely disassembled the main shaft, looked over all the gears on both shafts, the synchros and everything looks great. Although the synchros are the old 80's paper type, there is no shredding or paper missing.

I may just replace the springs and keys, the little clip for the speedo gear and run it.
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post #13 of 20 Old 05-20-2019, 09:58 AM
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That's one of the reasons I stopped rebuilding T-5's on the side for friends. The costs just went way up, even with aftermarket parts. Used to be able to grab a $50 core, buy $200-250 worth of parts and rebuild it to a functioning t-5. Now with anything Fox related, costs went up. Broken T5's used to be free, and i scooped them up all the time. Now guys want $200 or so for a busted t-5.

The T5 in my current Fox is the 2nd one i ever rebuilt (1st one went into a 1993 Cobra, unknown how it's doing today) and I used some aftermarket parts from a seller known as "The Gear Box", and this T5 is dead silent and running well. It has maybe 2K miles on it since my rebuild (from a 4cyl T5) and it's holding up.

https://www.thegearbox.org/T5.html

I have a busted 1990 T-5 and priced out rebuilding it to a 2.95 gearset and was shocked at how much it would cost these days. A new one is $2K maybe, but now you are in the price range of an Astro performance gearset. Then of course, some will say when you are spending $2K on a trans, get a TKO or 6-spd instead. Some just like how light and easy the t-5 shifts though (like myself).

I think your plan is good. Buy the small parts you need and get the trans running. Get the car driving. Then reevaluate. It's just going to be a REALLY short 1st gear.

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post #14 of 20 Old 05-20-2019, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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I just got a 068 gear set on its way with rebuild kit for much less than you would think!
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post #15 of 20 Old 05-20-2019, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang5L5 View Post
That's one of the reasons I stopped rebuilding T-5's on the side for friends. The costs just went way up, even with aftermarket parts. Used to be able to grab a $50 core, buy $200-250 worth of parts and rebuild it to a functioning t-5. Now with anything Fox related, costs went up. Broken T5's used to be free, and i scooped them up all the time. Now guys want $200 or so for a busted t-5.

The T5 in my current Fox is the 2nd one i ever rebuilt (1st one went into a 1993 Cobra, unknown how it's doing today) and I used some aftermarket parts from a seller known as "The Gear Box", and this T5 is dead silent and running well. It has maybe 2K miles on it since my rebuild (from a 4cyl T5) and it's holding up.

https://www.thegearbox.org/T5.html

I have a busted 1990 T-5 and priced out rebuilding it to a 2.95 gearset and was shocked at how much it would cost these days. A new one is $2K maybe, but now you are in the price range of an Astro performance gearset. Then of course, some will say when you are spending $2K on a trans, get a TKO or 6-spd instead. Some just like how light and easy the t-5 shifts though (like myself).

I think your plan is good. Buy the small parts you need and get the trans running. Get the car driving. Then reevaluate. It's just going to be a REALLY short 1st gear.

Have you looked at the Asto 2.95 close ratio gear kit for $450? This is what I'm thinking of buying for mine. It's been difficult getting ahold of anyone though. Been over a week for me and still waiting to see what they have to say. looking for something comparable to the Z spec, and think this may fill the bill.

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post #16 of 20 Old 05-20-2019, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang5L5 View Post
The T5 in my current Fox is the 2nd one i ever rebuilt (1st one went into a 1993 Cobra, unknown how it's doing today) and I used some aftermarket parts from a seller known as "The Gear Box", and this T5 is dead silent and running well. It has maybe 2K miles on it since my rebuild (from a 4cyl T5) and it's holding up.

https://www.thegearbox.org/T5.html
I rebuilt mine with TGB parts and it's still going strong. Granted, I don't beat mine up too bad.

'88 Notch - BBK CAI, BBK X-pipe, Flowmaster catbacks, B&M shifter, Al driveshaft, SVE coilovers, MM full length SFCs, 5-lug conversion, rear discs, 2000 GT wheels.
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post #17 of 20 Old 05-22-2019, 09:49 AM
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Have you looked at the Asto 2.95 close ratio gear kit for $450? This is what I'm thinking of buying for mine. It's been difficult getting ahold of anyone though. Been over a week for me and still waiting to see what they have to say. looking for something comparable to the Z spec, and think this may fill the bill.

This one?

https://astroperformance.com/product...t-super-alloy/

I've looked at it and debated getting it.


However, I've also looked at this kit. 485 TQ should cover anything i throw at it. However, at nearly 2K i wonder if that money would be better spent on a different trans. There are some positives about the T-5 i do prefer over some aftermarket offerings. The small size, light weight, how easily it shifts, and the fact that I can rebuild it fairly easily. Plus i won't need to buy additional components to make a different trans fit. I don't need a 6th gear.

https://astroperformance.com/product...ckage-1985-93/

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post #18 of 20 Old 05-22-2019, 10:04 AM
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Tony finally got back to me about that gear set. Said strength wise, it's roughly the same as the 85-89 stock setup. My T5 already has the better 90-93 internals so I guess I'll just stick with what I have.

I know their big $$ kits are bad ass! That's more than I'm willing to put into my car though.

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post #19 of 20 Old 05-22-2019, 10:06 AM
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They are pricey, but i have a feeling after my new engine combo i'll need something a bit stronger than the stock 90-93 gearset in the T5 i have now. I prob won't go with the 2.95 set after what you've stated.

I have a blown T5 kicking around, so i should perhaps start saving my pennies.

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post #20 of 20 Old 05-23-2019, 02:27 PM
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Someone mentioned the 6th gear.....

You know how a T5 drops a TON of RPM between 4th and 5th? T56 splits the difference. 6th is like T5 5th. 5th is like a split between a T5's 4th and 5th. Confusing but that's the way it is and it's the bestest way I can 'splain it

On the shifting, I put a magnum in mine and quite frankly, it's probably the smoothest shifting synchronized transmission I've ever messed with. I have a nice rebuilt T5 in my '93 (4 cyl) and after driving the magnum I realized how "notchy" the stock T5 really is.

But I certainly am in agreement with it fitting in a stock manner....and being somewhat lightweight. The Magnum is not that. Not at all.
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