Retiring the EEC - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 05-26-2018, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Retiring the EEC

thinking of getting a engine management system, any suggestions? was thinking about going with the holley efi series. any suggestions appreciated

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post #2 of 20 Old 05-26-2018, 11:21 AM
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Just finishing installing Holley HP in my car w/ the in dash screen. A few of my buddies are running it. I can’t compare it to anything else, but I can tell you it is absolutely amazing!!!


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post #3 of 20 Old 05-28-2018, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by AtomicCoupe View Post
Just finishing installing Holley HP in my car w/ the in dash screen. A few of my buddies are running it. I can’t compare it to anything else, but I can tell you it is absolutely amazing!!!
What were you using before the holley?
Do you feel your engine runs alot smoother? Did you go coil on plug?

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post #4 of 20 Old 05-28-2018, 01:29 AM
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The PIMPXS is about half the price of the Holley. The Holley seems a lot nicer, but is it 1K nicer?? You get free online tech help that's good if you want to tune yourself. Here's a pull I just did in 4th gear at 7 psi to about 120mph.. I need to adjust the Fuel a bit. Timing is safe.
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post #5 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 12:09 AM
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Can't say enough how helpful it is to have the Stinger Tech Support online everyday.. It helps a lot.
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post #6 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 05:27 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AtomicCoupe View Post
Just finishing installing Holley HP in my car w/ the in dash screen. A few of my buddies are running it. I canít compare it to anything else, but I can tell you it is absolutely amazing!!!
Yeah, heard they were really good, and self learning once set up. Like the digital dash feature as well. Kinda gets rid of some gauge clutter

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post #7 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 06:30 AM
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Can't say enough how helpful it is to have the Stinger Tech Support online everyday.. It helps a lot.

I bought my PIMPXS a couple months ago, cant wait to get the motor in the car and tuned.
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post #8 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 07:38 AM
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Another vote for PIMPxs. If I didn't keep dismantling my car, I would have it tuned/right. But just after a few hours of tinkering with the tune, the drive-ability is greatly improved.
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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Another vote for PIMPxs. If I didn't keep dismantling my car, I would have it tuned/right. But just after a few hours of tinkering with the tune, the drive-ability is greatly improved.
What did you have before the PIMPxs?

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post #10 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 08:17 AM
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What did you have before the PIMPxs?

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Moates with the A9L2 tune. Prior to that, just a stock A9L.

I'm not necessarily against the idea of having a stock ECU.. but they are aging. And with that age, the capacitors and other electronic components get more and more worn. A modern ecu from a function standpoint is better built. From a tune standpoint, the factory ECU is better at adapting to various changes in air density, temp, load, etc. However, on a car that's meant mostly for performance and spirited driving, the PIMPxs can be tuned pretty dang well to adapt and function to what you're doing.

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post #11 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 08:54 AM
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but they are aging. And with that age, the capacitors and other electronic components get more and more worn.
This is my gripe with all PNP systems, since they also rely on delicate factory sensors and modules to do their job. Fortunately you can get a drop on harness from Stinger that replaces the whole factory engine harness, so that is a plus (holley does this as well).

I'm more of a fan of the coil-per-plug ignition systems so I'm using LS coils on a SBF, which you can also do with both Megasquirt (Pimp and DIY variants), and Holley.

~~~~~~~~~~~

As far as comparing the two, I've tuned a few dozen megasquirted mustangs and am also tuning on a twin turbo dart 427 mustang with a holley dominator system (first time for me).

The tunerstudio software used for tuning megasquirt is better in my opinion. It's more intuitive, better sorted, and seems to provide better physical control of tables/variables within the software.

Holley's software hasn't been as intuitive and granular but the ecu itself has this pretty nice ability to just work. It's a much easier system to tune for people with limited experience tuning. As long as the widebands are installed and the sensors are calibrated, the car pretty much always cranks right up and runs, even using a base tune from a car that isn't very close. It has some pretty gnarly correction features that keep it safe almost regardless of what's in your fuel table. The "auto-tune" (fuel table only) feature is pretty effective. We took this car (1400hp supposedly) to the track on low boost and a base tune from a different combination. I adjusted a few things before the first pass to make sure it was safe, then within 4 passes the fuel table was dang close and we were able to start throwing timing and boost at it. He also street drives this car over 50 miles at a time and hasn't had many issues with it whatsoever.

Having said that, I'm also tuning a single turbo LS mustang on methanol with a mechanical fuel pump and standard port injection on MS3Pro. The freaking thing started right up after I created the base file and guesstimated some tables/enrichments. Everyone told us it'll never start on meth, blah blah but it does. Nothing like those old alky blower cars that have to have a shot of gas down the hat to fire up. We will be treating this car similarly to the twin turbo 427 holley car.,where we get it to the track and try to get it running well in one night, so this will be a great Head-to-Head comparison of how well both systems perform for the modern drag racer.

The megasquirt systems have more variables to look over before the car can start and drive. You have to be a more knowledgeable tuner to make a megasquirt system work really well (in my opinion) but that's also a plus in my book.

All this to say, as an engineer who is eager to learn as much as possible about calibrating and tuning, I prefer the megasquirt systems over holley BUT I am definitely impressed with how easy and effective the holley dominator ecu works for the person with limited knowledge or less time.
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post #12 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah having some issues with mine... Can't seem to correct for lean conditions
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Moates with the A9L2 tune. Prior to that, just a stock A9L.

I'm not necessarily against the idea of having a stock ECU.. but they are aging. And with that age, the capacitors and other electronic components get more and more worn. A modern ecu from a function standpoint is better built. From a tune standpoint, the factory ECU is better at adapting to various changes in air density, temp, load, etc. However, on a car that's meant mostly for performance and spirited driving, the PIMPxs can be tuned pretty dang well to adapt and function to what you're doing.
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post #13 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 09:47 AM
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I've run an EEC IV, Haltech and MS 3x on my own car and putzed around with the Holley system. The Haltech was absolutely trouble free and I ran it for almost two decades (I installed it sometime in the mid/late '90s and switched to MS about 3 years ago.) Haltech is awesome, but expensive and I can't vouch for the latest ones. Megasquirt is actually pretty good, but has some serious flaws (which I detailed in the massive Whipple thread).

Here's my take: MS is good if you're going with a sussed-out setup - like the plug and play MS2 variants, or running a COP/CNP setup with a Hall Effect sensor. Or if you're running a low-power motor that's not too hard on spark. The software, as 5.0thunder says, is pretty good. It's biggest flaws are that it doesn't do what it's advertised to do (in my case, my biggest bitch is that it's VR input circuitry absolutely sucks) and the support/documentation is the worst thing I've ever experienced that isn't Chineseum. I wasted more time and $$ trying to get the VR issue to work, including dyno time and race gas, than simply going with a Holley from the get-go.

Once I got everything sorted, here's my take on the MS3x:
- I/O capability is pretty exceptional. But to fully take advantage of it, you at least need to be at the level of "advanced electronics hobbyist" or better.
- The ability to datalog straight to an SD card is pretty awesome.
- The documentation is atrocious. Go ahead, tell me what the default AFR sensor is based on the manual. It's terribly misleading. That's if you can find the most current manual.
- The AFR safety cutoff feature is very nice, and protected my motor on more than one occasion.
- The self tuning feature works pretty amazingly well.
- The self-righteous, Volvo-driving uber douches that run the support forums will always blame you first (typically your grounds), and under no circumstances will they ever admit that the MS is at fault, even though in my case regarding the VR circuits, it was. And I did a fair amount of modification to try to get it to work. I finally broke down and found a Cherry Hall Effect sensor with appropriate specs (based on my own electronics knowledge - the forums were of no help here) and use the bolt bosses on my balancer as a trigger wheel.
- This deserves it's own line - Matt Cramer and a user here, a91what iirc, are both helpful and knowledgeable. Use the forums for research, but direct questions to these guys. Seijirou is also pretty knowledgeable.
- The DB-style connector the MS3x uses is cheap and ubiquitous, but better suited to printers from the late '80s/early '90s than an automotive application. It can't handle the the current (so they use multiple pins at least in some cases, but others, like injectors, are just kind of, "good luck - you're either using under sized wiring, or going to have a hell of a time using properly sized wiring"), and unscrewing it in a car is a PITA.

The Holley's weakest link is the USB port. It can break easily, and it's non-replaceable (fully potted).

HTH.

AlexLTDLX

'84 LTD LX - 9.83 at 140.09. Whippled 365 SBF with a glide and 3.08 gears. Driven to and from the track 60 miles without even changing tire pressure.
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post #14 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 10:05 AM
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Also megasquirt hardware is typically repairable, where holley is not. Seen more than a few guys on fb bricking a dominator and having to spend another 1700-2000 on one.
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post #15 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Also megasquirt hardware is typically repairable, where holley is not. Seen more than a few guys on fb bricking a dominator and having to spend another 1700-2000 on one.
Wow that's pretty bad. Designed it like that I bet, on purpose

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post #16 of 20 Old 06-07-2018, 11:51 AM
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My suggestion is the Pro-M EFI, do yourself a favor and research the system before making any choices, go into the Pro-M section and browse through a few threads, if you have any specific questions or concerns you’d like to ask about send me a PM and I’d be glad to talk with you about my experience. I’m just a customer who is satisfied with the system and love referring it to others looking for a new system.
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post #17 of 20 Old 06-07-2018, 07:50 PM
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I have a pro m system also. I think it’s the best investment I have made to the car. I’m the guy that has bad luck with a brick.

I struggled with the pro m system. However the issues were al related to other problems in the car. The fact the tune was done except for a few parameters makes it nice.

I could go on and on. It’s a solid system that just makes things easy and the way they are supposed to be.

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post #18 of 20 Old 06-08-2018, 05:52 AM
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I have a Haltech Elite, and it is awesome. In saying that I haven't really played with other systems so I am not saying it is better than others.
The packaging, the loom it comes with integrated fuse box, the canbus 02 sensor system. It just screamed professional, and so far I have had no dramas. Best thing is where I live a lot of people tune them. That's one thing I'll say, if you are going to look at taking it to someone, have a look around and see what good tuners are in your area and what they are comfortable tuning. Tuning is tuning, but some tuners aren't comfortable with certain EMS's.
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post #19 of 20 Old 06-09-2018, 01:05 PM
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I have a Haltech Elite, and it is awesome. In saying that I haven't really played with other systems so I am not saying it is better than others.
The packaging, the loom it comes with integrated fuse box, the canbus 02 sensor system. It just screamed professional, and so far I have had no dramas. Best thing is where I live a lot of people tune them. That's one thing I'll say, if you are going to look at taking it to someone, have a look around and see what good tuners are in your area and what they are comfortable tuning. Tuning is tuning, but some tuners aren't comfortable with certain EMS's.
This is the exact reason why I always have to recommend the Pro-M, why buy an aftermarket ECU to just pay someone to tune it, with the Pro-M you donít ever need to pay anyone to tune your car.
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post #20 of 20 Old 06-10-2018, 03:19 AM
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Well you don't have to with the Haltech either. Pretty simple to setup and very self intuitive software.
My comment was more regarding if the person is planning on getting someone to tune it, look to see who does what in your area first. Although these days I'm sure most tuners are all over most of the systems.
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