Want better/easier tuning for my 94' cobra so which is better? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 53 Old 01-16-2017, 05:20 AM Thread Starter
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Want better/easier tuning for my 94' cobra so which is better?

#1 Stick with the confusing Moates Quarterhorse that I can't figure out.

#2. F.A.S.T efi?

#3 Holley Dominator Efi

#4. FiTECH efi

Looking for the easiest (I'm not too computer savvy) and cheapest if possible. Don't want to have to rewrite the entire car either. Looking for plug-n-play which is more my style. Not sure if they're is such one.

Thank you.

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post #2 of 53 Old 01-16-2017, 06:18 PM
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i just did the Holley hp and love it, you need a start up tune to get you going Holley has tons of them and then you just tweak it, and i never tuned a car before this one very easy and a #### load of support on here, YB and the Holley forums

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post #3 of 53 Old 01-16-2017, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by machine head View Post
#1 Stick with the confusing Moates Quarterhorse that I can't figure out.

#2. F.A.S.T efi?

#3 Holley Dominator Efi

#4. FiTECH efi

Looking for the easiest (I'm not too computer savvy) and cheapest if possible. Don't want to have to rewrite the entire car either. Looking for plug-n-play which is more my style. Not sure if they're is such one.

Thank you.
2,3 and 4 will all be easier than the moates. Not sure if any are plug and play but I think the Fitech would easiest based watching the powerblock guys install one awhile back.

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post #4 of 53 Old 01-16-2017, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I like the overall look of a carb setup but ease of efi tuning. Just wasn't sure if anyone had any luck that wasn't building a full blown race car.
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post #5 of 53 Old 01-16-2017, 10:09 PM
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all are going to require time to tune, there is no other way around it, and you will need to learn the reasoning of it.

None are intuitive

None of these, come with, parameters you just stick in and it works.

parameters, and the math are all intertwined in logic, and computer lingo

Cold starts, and idle, and transient fueling all take time, and offer levels of fustration

And no one is going to tell what to do for free

the easiest and cheapest is to pay someone that already knows how to do it.

I am sure your time is worth something
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post #6 of 53 Old 01-17-2017, 01:47 AM
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If it's going on a street car where manners and reliability have value, the EEC is a good choice, but as you stated, can be confusing without reading and understanding the massive strategy doc.

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post #7 of 53 Old 01-17-2017, 03:30 PM
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#1 Stick with the confusing Moates Quarterhorse that I can't figure out.

#2. F.A.S.T efi?

#3 Holley Dominator Efi

#4. FiTECH efi

Looking for the easiest (I'm not too computer savvy) and cheapest if possible. Don't want to have to rewrite the entire car either. Looking for plug-n-play which is more my style. Not sure if they're is such one.

Thank you.
I can't speak to Moates/QH but I can say that FAST is not a slap-it-in and get-up-and-running system. In my experience it's very similar to Megasquirt. I like them both, but they are both as unwieldy as they are powerful.

Can't speak to Holley or FiTECH.

What I can add though is that if I've ever seen a system that repeatedly has feedback about how easy it was to get going and how well the vehicle runs for the little bit of effort put in, it's Pro-M. I've never used it or seen it or even know anybody who has, so this is 100% based on feedback that I've come across on this forum. I have no idea what it's capabilities or limitations are but it might be worth adding to your list to do some homework on. Again, I'm only mentioning it because easy is clearly an important criteria for you and if there's a consistent word that apparently applies to the Pro-M system, at least as it appears from over here on the other side of the fence, easy would be that word.

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post #8 of 53 Old 01-18-2017, 10:17 AM
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Looking for the easiest (I'm not too computer savvy) and cheapest if possible. Don't want to have to rewrite the entire car either. Looking for plug-n-play which is more my style. Not sure if they're is such one.
We have a plug and play option for the '94 Mustang priced at $839:

MSPNP for '94-'95 Mustangs

It's even the exact same size as a stock EEC-IV so it not only plugs into the stock wiring, it fits under the stock hold down bracket.



You can download the installation guide and tuning software, see if this is something you'd want to tackle yourself or if you'd want to take it to a tuner.
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post #9 of 53 Old 01-18-2017, 10:58 AM
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We have a plug and play option for the '94 Mustang priced at $839:

MSPNP for '94-'95 Mustangs

It's even the exact same size as a stock EEC-IV so it not only plugs into the stock wiring, it fits under the stock hold down bracket.



You can download the installation guide and tuning software, see if this is something you'd want to tackle yourself or if you'd want to take it to a tuner.
Nice. Didn't know this existed. I like the idea because it replaces the stock PCM completely but still utilizes the same wiring, so you don't have to rewire the car. Our 20+ year old PCMs are starting to have issues with blown/leaky capacitors anyway, and while it's probably cheaper to fix them, I like the idea of having a brand new replacement option with onboard modification capability. That way you remove one less questionable component out of the chain of things to fail, cuz you don't have to worry whether your PCM is crapping out or your piggy back unit.

What are the downsides/limitations vs these other options?

I'm going to take a hard look at this.

Thanks for sharing.

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post #10 of 53 Old 01-18-2017, 11:26 AM
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I'm too cheap. And I'm a computer engineer so I fully understand how to tune EEC boxes. If you ever looked at the source code running on any of the Megasquirt boxes, I can assure you that even if you found it acceptable to run your engine you'd have second thoughts about putting your family in the car. Overpriced junk is unfortunately all I can come up with, but it's popular... just make sure you get an MS3 because MS2 doesn't support sequential injection on all 8 cylinders.


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post #11 of 53 Old 01-18-2017, 11:36 AM
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I'm too cheap. And I'm a computer engineer so I fully understand how to tune EEC boxes. If you ever looked at the source code running on any of the Megasquirt boxes, I can assure you that even if you found it acceptable to run your engine you'd have second thoughts about putting your family in the car. Overpriced junk is unfortunately all I can come up with, but it's popular... just make sure you get an MS3 because MS2 doesn't support sequential injection on all 8 cylinders.
That's interesting. What do you see as being the issue with their code? Is it prone to crashing or something else that makes you think it's a safety concern?

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post #12 of 53 Old 01-18-2017, 02:14 PM
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That's interesting. What do you see as being the issue with their code? Is it prone to crashing or something else that makes you think it's a safety concern?
It's just poorly written code, not well maintained or easily maintainable. It was clearly not written by professional software engineers, but probably by electrical/computer engineers without a lot of experience in writing code in C. Looks like a first major project for a EE type of thing. I was asked by a colleague at another company to modify some of the MS2 code to implement some CAN bus functionality, but it was so hacked together that the time it was going to take to add the new feature wasn't worth it. Regardless, I know many people who have made it work successfully and it's got its place in the DIY EFI tuning community. The Ford EEC on the other hand, is, in my opinion, ahead of time in terms of design, very flexible, and robust in manufacture. You don't see a lot of fried EEC boxes in automotive repair shops.

My thoughts on your specific application would be that you should get the CBAZA definition from SailorBob and keep the Moates QH. The definition will cost about $25 or so. It's extremely comprehensive and will allow you to "tune the crap out of your car very quickly." There's 2 major resources on the web for tuning support that I would recommend. First, EFIDynotuning.com run by Decipha and also EECTuning.org, which has been around for a long time. You can also have Decipha set you up with a base tune if you're really that computer illiterate!
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post #13 of 53 Old 01-18-2017, 02:56 PM
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It's just poorly written code, not well maintained or easily maintainable. It was clearly not written by professional software engineers, but probably by electrical/computer engineers without a lot of experience in writing code in C. Looks like a first major project for a EE type of thing. I was asked by a colleague at another company to modify some of the MS2 code to implement some CAN bus functionality, but it was so hacked together that the time it was going to take to add the new feature wasn't worth it. Regardless, I know many people who have made it work successfully and it's got its place in the DIY EFI tuning community. The Ford EEC on the other hand, is, in my opinion, ahead of time in terms of design, very flexible, and robust in manufacture. You don't see a lot of fried EEC boxes in automotive repair shops.

My thoughts on your specific application would be that you should get the CBAZA definition from SailorBob and keep the Moates QH. The definition will cost about $25 or so. It's extremely comprehensive and will allow you to "tune the crap out of your car very quickly." There's 2 major resources on the web for tuning support that I would recommend. First, EFIDynotuning.com run by Decipha and also EECTuning.org, which has been around for a long time. You can also have Decipha set you up with a base tune if you're really that computer illiterate!

I can't say I doubt your opinion because you're much more qualified to form one than I am, but I will say that there are tons and tons of people who have used MS on daily drivers from the archaic MS1 stuff all the way to modern MS3Pro and have had no issue with those units. From old BMW's to the miata group. Better economy or drivability, more power, and versatility/flexibility with inputs/outputs over a stock box. The tuning software has improved a ton and is very easy to navigate now. I'm sure people have discovered how to achieve some of that with an EEC box but it can't be as easy as just buying one of these assembled MS ecu's and plugging stuff up. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I've developed thus far.

@Matt Cramer when is MSPNP-PRO coming for 87-93 mustangs?
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post #14 of 53 Old 01-18-2017, 03:10 PM
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It's just poorly written code, not well maintained or easily maintainable. It was clearly not written by professional software engineers, but probably by electrical/computer engineers without a lot of experience in writing code in C. Looks like a first major project for a EE type of thing. I was asked by a colleague at another company to modify some of the MS2 code to implement some CAN bus functionality, but it was so hacked together that the time it was going to take to add the new feature wasn't worth it. Regardless, I know many people who have made it work successfully and it's got its place in the DIY EFI tuning community. The Ford EEC on the other hand, is, in my opinion, ahead of time in terms of design, very flexible, and robust in manufacture. You don't see a lot of fried EEC boxes in automotive repair shops.

My thoughts on your specific application would be that you should get the CBAZA definition from SailorBob and keep the Moates QH. The definition will cost about $25 or so. It's extremely comprehensive and will allow you to "tune the crap out of your car very quickly." There's 2 major resources on the web for tuning support that I would recommend. First, EFIDynotuning.com run by Decipha and also EECTuning.org, which has been around for a long time. You can also have Decipha set you up with a base tune if you're really that computer illiterate!
Thanks, appreciate you sharing your thoughts. This detail is very helpful. I took some programming courses in college, so at least on the surface I understand what you mean. In my mind, as long the code accomplishes it's goal reliably and swiftly, it's quality I suppose might not be a deal breaker. I need to look into this some more.

I should apologize to the OP, as I didn't meant to steal his thread. Just good and helpful conversation/discussion.

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post #15 of 53 Old 01-18-2017, 03:29 PM
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I would just add that no thirdparty manufacturer has the need or the resources to fine tune their engine controls to a state better than Ford's controls department. Ford designed the EEC to support a wide range of engine configurations, eg. 4, 6, and 8 cylinder engines with a range of ignition type (TFI, EDIS, etc.) and transmission types (manual, auto, neutral safety switches, not, etc.). They also designed the engine to run almost perfectly in all conditions, like altitude, hot/cold, idle, part throttle, WOT - and I've not seen the level of control you have for many of these fine tuning parameters in thirdparty controllers. Ford released the 1st EEC box in 1978, so it's pretty hard for any thirdparty to catch up. There's a huge DIY community out there that has broken out complete definitions for the factory boxes, just as there are the similarly complete definitions available for BMW, GM, Porsche, Volvo, etc.

'89 5.0L LX hatch: all 90mm 2.2L Blowzilla Dart Iron Eagle 306 @ 8.4:1, ported Vic Jr heads, TMoss ported GT40 lower, Deka 80# injectors, EDIS8, GUFB-A9L2-Moates tuned, Tremec 3550, 3.31 gears w/31-spline TruTrac
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post #16 of 53 Old 01-19-2017, 02:52 PM
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I think we might be wandering off base here.

The EEC is very capable in the right hands, but it is not easy which is a primary requirement here, and the OP has already gone down this path and determine that it doesn't meet their interface needs.

Megasquirt is also very capable in the right hands. I won't argue if it's more or less capable in terms of running an engine relevant to this conversation compared to the EEC, but there is a mountain of anecdotal evidence that it will do the job very well. Importantly it does have, in my opinion, an easier interface. I understand not liking the way the code is written but poor development practices does not necessitate poor functionality. Oracle SQL Server for example is so hacked together that there are parts of it that Oracle themselves admit they do not understand properly and therefore some quirks exist that they cannot alter. Nevertheless it is the king of the relational database mountain because it works very well. I expect the family comment was a bit of an over-exaggeration to make the point but some people might take such a thing at face value. I am confident, however spaghetti megasquirt's code base might be, it's not going to perform only-in-the-movies computer voodoo and suddenly alter its behavior and kill your family.

That said, as much as I love megasquirt I don't think I can honestly put it in to the "easiest" camp. You still need a pretty good handle on what you're doing to have good results.

I'll end with the piece of advice I tell everybody that asks me this. If you want easy, you're probably not going to do all final tuning yourself, so go find your tuner first. Find someone you like, and trust, that has good references. Run whatever they suggest you run, which is probably what they're most proficient with. That will be your path of least resistance to a car that runs well. If having someone else basically do it for you doesn't appeal to you, and you want to do it yourself, then you need to get the "easy" idea out of your head and accept that it's going to take time and effort and mistakes and failures to get there. It isn't easy, but it is really cool and rewarding!

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post #17 of 53 Old 01-24-2017, 10:46 AM
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What are the downsides/limitations vs these other options?
This one is a basic fuel and ignition controller with a couple extras such as launch control and boost control. So fueling is going to be bank to bank instead of sequential, no individual cylinder tuning capabilities, and it doesn't have some of the other capabilities that something from the higher end of the market would have like traction control or progressive nitrous injection. It is also meant to be locked into the stock TFI ignition - it wouldn't, for example, support using eight LS1 coils without a lot of work. It's not meant to compete with the Dominator (our option for that end of the market would be an MS3Pro Ultimate). The MSPNP is an entry level EFI option at an entry level price tag.

I don't write code for the MegaSquirt lineup myself, I just do technical support for them. I don't pretend to understand the full inner workings of the code, and I'm the wrong person to ask if you want to modify the code. But I can tell you that I don't run into very many complaints about the code actually not working as it should, and most users have told me they found it no harder to tune than other competing standalones.

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@Matt Cramer when is MSPNP-PRO coming for 87-93 mustangs?
It's on our to do list, but I don't have a firm release date yet. Hopefully first half of 2017.

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post #18 of 53 Old 01-24-2017, 11:17 AM
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This one is a basic fuel and ignition controller with a couple extras such as launch control and boost control. So fueling is going to be bank to bank instead of sequential, no individual cylinder tuning capabilities, and it doesn't have some of the other capabilities that something from the higher end of the market would have like traction control or progressive nitrous injection. It is also meant to be locked into the stock TFI ignition - it wouldn't, for example, support using eight LS1 coils without a lot of work. It's not meant to compete with the Dominator (our option for that end of the market would be an MS3Pro Ultimate). The MSPNP is an entry level EFI option at an entry level price tag.

I don't write code for the MegaSquirt lineup myself, I just do technical support for them. I don't pretend to understand the full inner workings of the code, and I'm the wrong person to ask if you want to modify the code. But I can tell you that I don't run into very many complaints about the code actually not working as it should, and most users have told me they found it no harder to tune than other competing standalones.



It's on our to do list, but I don't have a firm release date yet. Hopefully first half of 2017.
For costing upwards of $1K for a board and harness package, I would expect the MS3 code to at least have been refactored. That being said however, I do have some friends that are using MS and have lots of fun with it. They just built the board from scratch however, so I believe it only cost them a few hundred bucks.

Either way you go, if you're a hardcore DIY guy then tuning any of the ECU options is going to be part of the deal. There is no real simple, easy path towards an excellent tune without a fair bit of effort (may be an understatement). If tuning is overwhelming and daunting, just fine a good tuner to sort it out instead of becoming frustrated and wasting time.

'89 5.0L LX hatch: all 90mm 2.2L Blowzilla Dart Iron Eagle 306 @ 8.4:1, ported Vic Jr heads, TMoss ported GT40 lower, Deka 80# injectors, EDIS8, GUFB-A9L2-Moates tuned, Tremec 3550, 3.31 gears w/31-spline TruTrac
'66 GT 2+2 Fastback: carb'd 289, Canfield heads - EFI transformation pending

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post #19 of 53 Old 01-24-2017, 03:08 PM
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My 1 and only 1 experience with Pro-M EFI was simple. Actually it was too simple.
Literally ripped out the old wires, installed the new provided harness. Input maybe 5 variables and all tuning was done.

If I was in a competition, I could probably install & have a damn near perfect running car in a single afternoon. Provided the car itself is in good running order.

But! Took me 3 dyno sessions, 4 "tuner" friends and 2 seasons using the Pro-M to get me my firm comfort level. For myself, I needed to try and break it before I could believe it.

All that said, I'm using the preloaded box stock tune on my street car. 17psi boost and my time has been spent driving the car. Not tuning the car.
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post #20 of 53 Old 02-10-2017, 01:53 PM
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at the end of the day it doesnt really matter what ecu you use or how you get there, all that matters is if your happy with the results

I dont discriminate holley fast bs ms eec i tune them all. I have found shortcomings in every single system that most wouldnt care about or even realize. I can tell you though that there is NO EASIER alternative than just sticking with the stock ecu for most applications. And I speak from exeriwnxe when I say most of the people I deal with get very upset when they find out I can make the stock ecu do everything their high dollar ecu can do for much cheaper.

Unless your trying to rotate the earth its just a wast e of money trying to replace a perfectly fine ecu IMO. The factory ford eecs are far superior than any of the aftermarket ecus. And with realtime tuning and emulation on them and the ability to write custom code and reassign outputs and inputs the stock eecs are a clear winner in every department.

Im not bashing any of the aftermarket ecus, they all do what they are intended to do, but from a price reliability, durability, and ease of replacement standpoint, the stock ford EECs CANNOT be beat.

If your frustrated trying to tune a ford ecu or just want to be able to plug in any afr or spark advance you want and not have to tune it or know what your doing then your best bet is to get a tune from someone that knows the ins and outs of the PCM your using.
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post #21 of 53 Old 02-10-2017, 09:34 PM
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Are you including the 94/95 OBDI ECU's?

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at the end of the day it doesnt really matter what ecu you use or how you get there, all that matters is if your happy with the results

I dont discriminate holley fast bs ms eec i tune them all. I have found shortcomings in every single system that most wouldnt care about or even realize. I can tell you though that there is NO EASIER alternative than just sticking with the stock ecu for most applications. And I speak from exeriwnxe when I say most of the people I deal with get very upset when they find out I can make the stock ecu do everything their high dollar ecu can do for much cheaper.

Unless your trying to rotate the earth its just a wast e of money trying to replace a perfectly fine ecu IMO. The factory ford eecs are far superior than any of the aftermarket ecus. And with realtime tuning and emulation on them and the ability to write custom code and reassign outputs and inputs the stock eecs are a clear winner in every department.

Im not bashing any of the aftermarket ecus, they all do what they are intended to do, but from a price reliability, durability, and ease of replacement standpoint, the stock ford EECs CANNOT be beat.

If your frustrated trying to tune a ford ecu or just want to be able to plug in any afr or spark advance you want and not have to tune it or know what your doing then your best bet is to get a tune from someone that knows the ins and outs of the PCM your using.
Are you including the 94/95 OBD I ECU's?? Are they what you are talking about above? I plan on adding A SCT 4 bank chip & buying the handheld programmer for my 94 when I change heads, cam and intake etc....How good are you with this? Or is there something better. Hard to find anyone that knows what to do here in Oregon...Thanks.
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post #22 of 53 Old 03-25-2017, 10:26 AM
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I enjoyed installing and configuring my ms3x. I felt the software was really easy to use. I know when I wanted to try to use the tfi to fire ls1 coils, Matt and a developer in England (from ms forum) went way above what I expected. I learned a ton about efi.

The install does take time. There is no getting around that.

If you worry about 20 year old eec, then what about 20 year old wiring? Only reason I'm not a real fan of the stand alone that plug into factory wiring is the wiring has to be in good shape for any system to work correctly. Plus the fact a ms3x or ms3 pro costs about the same. With whatever you do I would check the wiring and make sure it's good.

I did sell my ms3x because I deicided I wanted to go carb. I never had confidence in my wiring skills. I was having weird problems and blamed my wiring. Turns out I had a slightly blown head and intake gasket was leaky.

I changed my mind and decided to go back efi. I went with pro m. I like that the wiring was done and there is an obd2 port.
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post #23 of 53 Old 03-26-2017, 10:38 AM
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I'm not sure why more people haven't mentioned Pro-M yet, its hands down the best money I've ever spent on my car.

I thought installing a new harness would be overwhelming for me, it wasn't, it was literally done in about an hour.

Plug in a few bits of data and go drive your damn car, no need to pay someone to tune it anymore.

If your car has bugs you need to work them out first, don't expect the software to tune around your vacuum leaks, bad fuel system, poor engine grounds or any other issue.

Dial your car in and insure it's in tip top condition and your done, who wouldn't want to do that in the first place anyways.

Customer service is excellent to say the least, Chris just spent 45 minutes on the phone with me going over how to setup my Progressive Nitrous Setup, he's walked me thru fuel system issues, a faulty MAF sensor adaptor (not Pro-M's issue), and voltage drop issues. None of these issue had anything to do with the software, it's hard for people to understand that if your car runs like it's supposed to the setup is plug and play, if you have any issues it's 99.9% an issue with your car. If that's the case you have the owner of the company willing to help walk you thru the issues, sometimes that involves you spending money to make sure you have quality components, that's fine by me.

Also, if you want to change your throttle body, get a new MAF sensor, swap cams, buy a turbo kit, install Nitrous, run Methanol, swap heads or anything your heart desires, guess who doesn't need to go pay for another tune, at around $500 a tune the system pays for itself in no time.

You can data log, you have real time data available, the software has a check engine light that throws codes, it controls your electric fans, you can have coil on (near) plugs.

If you think the price is high for the system, think again, sell your old ecu, ignition box, wiring harness, spark plug wires if you go with coil on plug and fan controller, you won't make a fortune but you've helped alleviate the initial cost.

Hands down the best money I've spent, if you have questions, want a real world review regarding my experience, PM me and I'd be glad to answer any questions, I didn't even know the system existed until I ran across a thread on here, I don't work for Pro-M, didn't get a discount on my setup, I just want to spread the word because I think it's an awesome product.
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post #24 of 53 Old 04-03-2017, 04:55 AM
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I'm not sure why more people haven't mentioned Pro-M yet, its hands down the best money I've ever spent on my car.
While I plan on doing a full review of it later, my Pro-m setup was essentially effortless and nearly flawless. Started up the first time and only made a few minor tweaks...if you are mechanically correct you should be able to plug in your data and be good to go.

Also, I just helped a friend install a Haltech Elite in his 4 banger and that was also relatively painless. Runs and drives but be need to work on the tune now as he is running speed density.
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post #25 of 53 Old 04-03-2017, 11:37 AM
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The stock Ford EEC does everything that has been mentioned as a feature in the aforementioned ECUs and it does that STOCK. All you need is a J3 port device to communicate with it and you're done. You can run an EEC-V box if you really want COP as well.

'89 5.0L LX hatch: all 90mm 2.2L Blowzilla Dart Iron Eagle 306 @ 8.4:1, ported Vic Jr heads, TMoss ported GT40 lower, Deka 80# injectors, EDIS8, GUFB-A9L2-Moates tuned, Tremec 3550, 3.31 gears w/31-spline TruTrac
'66 GT 2+2 Fastback: carb'd 289, Canfield heads - EFI transformation pending

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post #26 of 53 Old 04-03-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by turboLXstang View Post
I'm not sure why more people haven't mentioned Pro-M yet, its hands down the best money I've ever spent on my car.

I thought installing a new harness would be overwhelming for me, it wasn't, it was literally done in about an hour.

Plug in a few bits of data and go drive your damn car, no need to pay someone to tune it anymore.

If your car has bugs you need to work them out first, don't expect the software to tune around your vacuum leaks, bad fuel system, poor engine grounds or any other issue.

Dial your car in and insure it's in tip top condition and your done, who wouldn't want to do that in the first place anyways.

Customer service is excellent to say the least, Chris just spent 45 minutes on the phone with me going over how to setup my Progressive Nitrous Setup, he's walked me thru fuel system issues, a faulty MAF sensor adaptor (not Pro-M's issue), and voltage drop issues. None of these issue had anything to do with the software, it's hard for people to understand that if your car runs like it's supposed to the setup is plug and play, if you have any issues it's 99.9% an issue with your car. If that's the case you have the owner of the company willing to help walk you thru the issues, sometimes that involves you spending money to make sure you have quality components, that's fine by me.

Also, if you want to change your throttle body, get a new MAF sensor, swap cams, buy a turbo kit, install Nitrous, run Methanol, swap heads or anything your heart desires, guess who doesn't need to go pay for another tune, at around $500 a tune the system pays for itself in no time.

You can data log, you have real time data available, the software has a check engine light that throws codes, it controls your electric fans, you can have coil on (near) plugs.

If you think the price is high for the system, think again, sell your old ecu, ignition box, wiring harness, spark plug wires if you go with coil on plug and fan controller, you won't make a fortune but you've helped alleviate the initial cost.

Hands down the best money I've spent, if you have questions, want a real world review regarding my experience, PM me and I'd be glad to answer any questions, I didn't even know the system existed until I ran across a thread on here, I don't work for Pro-M, didn't get a discount on my setup, I just want to spread the word because I think it's an awesome product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsfguy View Post
While I plan on doing a full review of it later, my Pro-m setup was essentially effortless and nearly flawless. Started up the first time and only made a few minor tweaks...if you are mechanically correct you should be able to plug in your data and be good to go.

Also, I just helped a friend install a Haltech Elite in his 4 banger and that was also relatively painless. Runs and drives but be need to work on the tune now as he is running speed density.
Please do some reviews and things on it. I still have mine in boxes on the shelf but hope to get it all going together soon on my car. I always wonder why there werent more reviews and discussions about it but I guess people only like to post when stuff doesnt work.

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post #27 of 53 Old 04-03-2017, 12:08 PM
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The stock Ford EEC does everything that has been mentioned as a feature in the aforementioned ECUs and it does that STOCK. All you need is a J3 port device to communicate with it and you're done. You can run an EEC-V box if you really want COP as well.
That's interesting. You can do launch control, traction control, flat shift, and table switching with the stock EEC-IV or EEC-V? It's come a long way since I looked at it, but it's also been a long time.

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post #28 of 53 Old 04-04-2017, 10:42 AM
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at the end of the day it doesnt really matter what ecu you use or how you get there, all that matters is if your happy with the results

I dont discriminate holley fast bs ms eec i tune them all. I have found shortcomings in every single system that most wouldnt care about or even realize. I can tell you though that there is NO EASIER alternative than just sticking with the stock ecu for most applications. And I speak from exeriwnxe when I say most of the people I deal with get very upset when they find out I can make the stock ecu do everything their high dollar ecu can do for much cheaper.

Unless your trying to rotate the earth its just a wast e of money trying to replace a perfectly fine ecu IMO. The factory ford eecs are far superior than any of the aftermarket ecus. And with realtime tuning and emulation on them and the ability to write custom code and reassign outputs and inputs the stock eecs are a clear winner in every department.

Im not bashing any of the aftermarket ecus, they all do what they are intended to do, but from a price reliability, durability, and ease of replacement standpoint, the stock ford EECs CANNOT be beat.

If your frustrated trying to tune a ford ecu or just want to be able to plug in any afr or spark advance you want and not have to tune it or know what your doing then your best bet is to get a tune from someone that knows the ins and outs of the PCM your using.
so you can do the tuning on the 94-95 stock OBD I computer too? That is what I will need...

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post #29 of 53 Old 04-04-2017, 06:37 PM
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That's interesting. You can do launch control, traction control, flat shift, and table switching with the stock EEC-IV or EEC-V? It's come a long way since I looked at it, but it's also been a long time.
Don't forget being able to run pump gas, race gas, E-85 and Methanol. And can the stock EEC handle 220 lb/hr low impedance injectors? Can it process sequential EFI at 9,000rpm? Can it perform boost control, trans brake function and creep mode? How about triggering more than 8 fuel injectors? The list can get a lot longer. Stock ECU/EEC great for street cars running moderate configured engines. For the serious control, pitch it in the ocean and go with modern equipment that can handle stuff nobody was thinking about back in the 90's
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Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
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post #30 of 53 Old 04-08-2017, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
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Don't forget being able to run pump gas, race gas, E-85 and Methanol. And can the stock EEC handle 220 lb/hr low impedance injectors? Can it process sequential EFI at 9,000rpm? Can it perform boost control, trans brake function and creep mode? How about triggering more than 8 fuel injectors? The list can get a lot longer. Stock ECU/EEC great for street cars running moderate configured engines. For the serious control, pitch it in the ocean and go with modern equipment that can handle stuff nobody was thinking about back in the 90's
Folks have modded the crap out of the EEC boxes over the years, they can support a wide range of AFR targets and obviously perform sequential injection and ignition with the later model COP ignition. Boost control was stock in EEC-IV for 1984 and people like Decipha have actually modified the runtime to support meth injection, nitrous, launch control, etc. I think the better part about the EECs is the hardware is very well engineered and very durable as well. The later EEC-V boxes are really pretty impressive from a computer engineering perspective. Way ahead of their time. They are limited to 8 cylinders max, however. And here's the kicker... it's CHEAP!

'89 5.0L LX hatch: all 90mm 2.2L Blowzilla Dart Iron Eagle 306 @ 8.4:1, ported Vic Jr heads, TMoss ported GT40 lower, Deka 80# injectors, EDIS8, GUFB-A9L2-Moates tuned, Tremec 3550, 3.31 gears w/31-spline TruTrac
'66 GT 2+2 Fastback: carb'd 289, Canfield heads - EFI transformation pending

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post #31 of 53 Old 04-08-2017, 12:51 PM
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The EEC is definitely well engineered. In my opinion Ford does electronic engine control better than anyone from a reliability and functionality standpoint. Also very versatile in the right hands. And as I stated, for most street vehicles, the drive-ability and function is hard to beat. But it is not something the entry level guy is going to want to mess with though when you are pushing some serious HP. With my FAST XFI, I can attach the laptop and in no time be changing timing or fuel maps or boost control or launch control without having to understand a single line of code. Most aftermarket engine management systems have "self tuning" features that makes using them so much easier.

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #32 of 53 Old 04-08-2017, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Decipha View Post
at the end of the day it doesnt really matter what ecu you use or how you get there, all that matters is if your happy with the results

I dont discriminate holley fast bs ms eec i tune them all. I have found shortcomings in every single system that most wouldnt care about or even realize. I can tell you though that there is NO EASIER alternative than just sticking with the stock ecu for most applications. And I speak from exeriwnxe when I say most of the people I deal with get very upset when they find out I can make the stock ecu do everything their high dollar ecu can do for much cheaper.

Unless your trying to rotate the earth its just a wast e of money trying to replace a perfectly fine ecu IMO. The factory ford eecs are far superior than any of the aftermarket ecus. And with realtime tuning and emulation on them and the ability to write custom code and reassign outputs and inputs the stock eecs are a clear winner in every department.

Im not bashing any of the aftermarket ecus, they all do what they are intended to do, but from a price reliability, durability, and ease of replacement standpoint, the stock ford EECs CANNOT be beat.

If your frustrated trying to tune a ford ecu or just want to be able to plug in any afr or spark advance you want and not have to tune it or know what your doing then your best bet is to get a tune from someone that knows the ins and outs of the PCM your using.
Please stop whoring out you and your business. People have been kicked off the the boards for the same thing you are doing. You didn't even start fooling around with the Moates stuff till I gave you a couple of tunes to analyze and never got back to me about before whatever efi tuning site that was crashed.

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post #33 of 53 Old 04-08-2017, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Shaker666 View Post
Folks have modded the crap out of the EEC boxes over the years, they can support a wide range of AFR targets and obviously perform sequential injection and ignition with the later model COP ignition. Boost control was stock in EEC-IV for 1984 and people like Decipha have actually modified the runtime to support meth injection, nitrous, launch control, etc. I think the better part about the EECs is the hardware is very well engineered and very durable as well. The later EEC-V boxes are really pretty impressive from a computer engineering perspective. Way ahead of their time. They are limited to 8 cylinders max, however. And here's the kicker... it's CHEAP!
Please don't tell me the Moates is any cheaper, I can knock that myth out the water.

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post #34 of 53 Old 04-08-2017, 01:24 PM
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I would somewhat agree, a complete QH set up including BE/EA license on a dongle plus QH, wideband, base tune and a lasota tuning book is almost $1100. If you already have an idea of what you're doing you can save $200-300 by skipping the base tune and tuning book. So it's definitely not cheap but it is still half the cost of a pro-m, Holley hp, fast etc....
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post #35 of 53 Old 04-08-2017, 02:38 PM
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The most comprehensive and widely used tuning interface for ECUs in general is TunerPro (I've used it to tune BMWs, Saabs, Volvos, and my Buell motorcycle). TunerPro is free. I also own BE and EA (purchased for $30 a long time ago), but I'm finding that the TunerPro definitions are more up to date and support the modded ECU strategies as well. I paid $250 for a Moates QH and I already had the ECU in my car, so not sure about the cost there.

'89 5.0L LX hatch: all 90mm 2.2L Blowzilla Dart Iron Eagle 306 @ 8.4:1, ported Vic Jr heads, TMoss ported GT40 lower, Deka 80# injectors, EDIS8, GUFB-A9L2-Moates tuned, Tremec 3550, 3.31 gears w/31-spline TruTrac
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