holley dominater efi or pro m efi - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 121 Old 03-14-2016, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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holley dominater efi or pro m efi

looking for advice im going to go efi sick of playing with my carb only to have to re-tune it when it get 20 degrees warmer, so im looking for advice on which one i should get either the dominater efi or the pro m efi, my setup is the following sbf 418 done by fordstrokers dynoed 500 to the wheel with the pro system carb
any help is help thanks walt

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post #2 of 121 Old 03-15-2016, 07:41 AM
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Most people are just going to tell you to buy what they bought, but to answer this question correctly, we really need to know how you will use the car.

If the car will be used mostly on the track, then Holley offers some race specific features that the Pro-M system doesn't have, so you will need the Holley. If those features are not needed, then you still have a choice to make.

If the car will be use mainly on the street, then the Pro-M system offers benefits that make this choice a no brainer.

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post #3 of 121 Old 03-15-2016, 02:40 PM
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From your description, any EFI system should fit the bill.
Maybe you would like a MAF based EFI system over a speed density one? A regular old EECI-V might be all you need? If you can find a tuner that can burn a chip, that might be enough?

If you want more than that, then the sky is the limit these days.
I choose the Pro-M EFI system and I am happy. I've never owned the new Holley stuff, but a lot of people are happy with their purchases also.

I run a trans brake and 2-step off the EFI system. I build boost off the line instantly.
I also run the coil near plug option with EV-14 injectors.

She's a gentle giant when putting around in traffic. When the lanes open, and I shift the GearVendors into high range on the SFI Powerglide, she's a freight train beast.

In all honesty, all the current EFI products are light years away from where we all were just a few short years ago. Hard to go wrong with anything you choose. It really comes down to personal preference.

A lot of my friends run the Holley. I went with a different approach and I was "first" to get the Pro-M from within the small group of guys I run around with.
Most of my Holley friends have played around with my Pro-M system and none of them have a bad word to say about the Pro-M. Just like I don't have a bad word to say about the Holley.

The dollars are a wash between the 2. There really isn't a wrong & right answer here. Between the 2, seriously you have a Win-Win flip of the coin.

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post #4 of 121 Old 03-15-2016, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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what is the differences that holley has over pro m for the track? the car is manly street driven with an occasional trip to the track
thanks for your help
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post #5 of 121 Old 03-15-2016, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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i like the holley but i cant figure out what i would need to buy to get a complete kit and the pro m sells a complete kit all the way down the the fuel system, soup to nuts, also thinking with the mass air would be better for my setup, how is pro m self learn?
thanks for your help
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post #6 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 08:48 AM
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what is the differences that holley has over pro m for the track? the car is manly street driven with an occasional trip to the track
thanks for your help
I don't recall which Holley system had what features. To be honest, none of those racing features interested me. But if you were drag racing, I can see where they would be good reasons to choose a Holley. Besides, drivability is not a concern with a race car.

If this is a street car, the Pro-M system is the way to go.
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post #7 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 08:56 AM
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i like the holley but i cant figure out what i would need to buy to get a complete kit and the pro m sells a complete kit all the way down the the fuel system, soup to nuts, also thinking with the mass air would be better for my setup, how is pro m self learn?
thanks for your help
It does not self learn. It doesn't need to. Self learning is a speed density thing. Not necessary with mass air. You (or Pro-M) enter the needed info. The rest is done. Go drive. No tuners. Very simple.
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post #8 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 09:25 AM
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The biggest question is what features you will need. Is this something that only has to run fuel and spark, and nothing else, or are you looking for things like traction control, a system that will run the A/C, etc?

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post #9 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 10:46 AM
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Fitech throttle body injection? Food for thought. It would be by far the easiest swap and get you daily drivability, easy starting and better fuel economy. They are also releasing a full multiport setup later this year if you must have it.

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post #10 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 12:33 PM
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Holley HP has all the basics plus if I recall 4 additional inputs that the user can define.
Holley Dominator has all the HP features pluse the ability to had a bunch more user defined inputs.

I can only fathom why someone would try to define the Dominator as the go-to for drag racing because of the optional user defined inputs. But I am really reaching, as I don't even agree with that statement.

Just to try an entertaine such a comment some drag race people like to data-log the kitchen sink. Pre-cooler PSI, post-cooler PSI, driveshaft speed, wheel speed, 6 different IAT temps, oil pressure/temp- pre-turbo/ post turbo. You name it, someone can easily put a sensor on it easy with a Dominator.

Holley does have great company & forum support. If you are confused on what part numbers you need. Then a simple call to Holley Support will square you away quickly enough.

Pro-M self tuning is an option on the Pro-M. It consists of paying an extra $100 to Pro-m for them to setup all the tables. They send you back a file for you to load into the computer and the self-tuning is 'about' done. I'll clarify the 'about done' by saying the end user will still need to set some basic parameters as outlined very well in their instructional videos. Such as Base Idle, TPS, Base Timing, Electric Fans...basic stuff.
I paid the $100 for the self-tuning option which also included the Exact Intake tubing with MAF flow tested. To me the $100 self-tuning option was a value added feature so I did it.

Yikes that said.
Matt Cramer also has a neat EFI system.
Again, for the age of electronics in our beloved Mustangs, it's truly a great time! There are multiple great EFI systems on the market today. A HUGE difference from just a few short years ago.

In closing, I will be taking my Pro-M EFI, 76mm Billet turbo, aftermarket SFI Powerglide w/ GearVendors & trans brake, E85, full BBRC fuel system, Team-Z suspension, 03-04 Cobra rack, ID1300 EV-14 injected street car to the race track this spring. I'm not the least bit concerned about my EFI system not being capable...

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post #11 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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It does not self learn. It doesn't need to. Self learning is a speed density thing. Not necessary with mass air. You (or Pro-M) enter the needed info. The rest is done. Go drive. No tuners. Very simple.
so after all is installed i don't or wouldn't have to go to a dyno tuner to tweak it? and it will give me all that i would need?
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post #12 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Matt Cramer View Post
The biggest question is what features you will need. Is this something that only has to run fuel and spark, and nothing else, or are you looking for things like traction control, a system that will run the A/C, etc?
fuel and spark, ac, fan and possible water pump
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post #13 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by millhouse View Post
Fitech throttle body injection? Food for thought. It would be by far the easiest swap and get you daily drivability, easy starting and better fuel economy. They are also releasing a full multiport setup later this year if you must have it.
thank you for your input but i want to go mpfi
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post #14 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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Holley HP has all the basics plus if I recall 4 additional inputs that the user can define.
Holley Dominator has all the HP features pluse the ability to had a bunch more user defined inputs.

I can only fathom why someone would try to define the Dominator as the go-to for drag racing because of the optional user defined inputs. But I am really reaching, as I don't even agree with that statement.

Just to try an entertaine such a comment some drag race people like to data-log the kitchen sink. Pre-cooler PSI, post-cooler PSI, driveshaft speed, wheel speed, 6 different IAT temps, oil pressure/temp- pre-turbo/ post turbo. You name it, someone can easily put a sensor on it easy with a Dominator.

Holley does have great company & forum support. If you are confused on what part numbers you need. Then a simple call to Holley Support will square you away quickly enough.

Pro-M self tuning is an option on the Pro-M. It consists of paying an extra $100 to Pro-m for them to setup all the tables. They send you back a file for you to load into the computer and the self-tuning is 'about' done. I'll clarify the 'about done' by saying the end user will still need to set some basic parameters as outlined very well in their instructional videos. Such as Base Idle, TPS, Base Timing, Electric Fans...basic stuff.
I paid the $100 for the self-tuning option which also included the Exact Intake tubing with MAF flow tested. To me the $100 self-tuning option was a value added feature so I did it.

Yikes that said.
Matt Cramer also has a neat EFI system.
Again, for the age of electronics in our beloved Mustangs, it's truly a great time! There are multiple great EFI systems on the market today. A HUGE difference from just a few short years ago.

In closing, I will be taking my Pro-M EFI, 76mm Billet turbo, aftermarket SFI Powerglide w/ GearVendors & trans brake, E85, full BBRC fuel system, Team-Z suspension, 03-04 Cobra rack, ID1300 EV-14 injected street car to the race track this spring. I'm not the least bit concerned about my EFI system not being capable...
thank you meegs, im starting to believe more in to the pro m efi so im going to do more research in it, i just thought the holley stuff was more performance graded and the pro m more stock
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post #15 of 121 Old 03-16-2016, 08:46 PM
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The biggest question is what features you will need. Is this something that only has to run fuel and spark, and nothing else, or are you looking for things like traction control, a system that will run the A/C, etc?
Is there a simple system that does only fuel & spark?

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post #16 of 121 Old 03-17-2016, 09:01 AM
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Is there a simple system that does only fuel & spark?
Just about all of them. A Dominator would be overkill if you are looking at Holley's lineup and just want fuel and spark.

Probably the simplest and lowest priced option out there - if you do not need sequential injection and would be OK with bank firing the injectors - would be a MicroSquirt. Fuel, spark, and a couple outputs left over for stuff like cooling fans. You would need to finish the wiring harness.

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...iring-harness/

We also sell a unit that would plug into a stock Fox body wiring harness if you're not interested in something where you or your tuner needs to finish the wiring harness.

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...d-mustang-5-0/

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post #17 of 121 Old 03-17-2016, 11:16 AM
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I agree that you can't go wrong either mpfi system. I chose the holley simply because it was speed density and I could run a 4500 series tb with it. I don't know if the pro m system has that ability or not, I'm noticing my 4150 is a bit of a restriction according to manifold vacuum.

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post #18 of 121 Old 03-17-2016, 03:10 PM
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The Holley is perfectly at home in a street only type application. I don't think it should be classified as more of a race car thing...

I have never used the Pro-M system so I can't really comment either way, but doesn't that system have some sort of O2 correction also? If so, say it has 10% or whatever correction, how does that get corrected?

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post #19 of 121 Old 03-17-2016, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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The Holley is perfectly at home in a street only type application. I don't think it should be classified as more of a race car thing...

I have never used the Pro-M system so I can't really comment either way, but doesn't that system have some sort of O2 correction also? If so, say it has 10% or whatever correction, how does that get corrected?
agree,what he said^^^
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post #20 of 121 Old 03-17-2016, 10:14 PM
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agree,what he said^^^
Really, I'm not the guy who should answer this. But here is my basic understanding, which I will be forthcoming and say I could absolutely be totally off base here.

So after I set up the basic steps from the installation videos, I did a slight change to the low slope on the injectors.
Injector Dynamics are pretty well sorted, straight from the box. I wanted a touch more AFR on pump gas because Minnesota has e10 minimum in all grades. Now our stores advertise e15. So I bumped my AFR to 14.3.
So I believe that is my target AFR??? But I'm not 100%

Ok from that, the Pro-M uses a lambda load based map. To be honest, I'm even more less sure I know what I'm talking about, so be aware.

From that lambda load based map the computer will use feedback from the O2's to reach the target value. My guess is by adding or subtracting fuel. Pretty sure the load map locks in timing?? Please don't quote me!

That's my general understanding of how it works. I've had my car with this computer on the dyno plenty of times now. Most of the guys at the 2 shops I dyno at, all run Holley. Myself and my Holley friends say the car reads fine on the dyno.

I'm starting to change my thinking from AFR to Lambda. It's helping me better understand e85. Although it will be a while before I just let her eat on the corn. But I'm dabbling and getting more confident every day.

And yes, I'll second the comments about the Holley is just as fine on the street as it is on the track. I still don't fully understand the comment of Strip = Holley, Street = Pro-M?? I get it to a point, but yeah I don't know...

Honestly their all great systems, and Matt Cramer is right. If budget is a factor, today you can get some terrific systems at low cost. Heck, finance aside his stuff is pretty solid, period. It wasn't like this only a few short years ago.

Whichever you pick, it's a Win-Win for the consumer! And that's just beautiful!

P.s. From my horrible explanation of how the Pro-M's correct from O2's. I hope you can understand why I went with Pro-M? Cuz I should be the last guy tuning cars!!! And I'm ok with that. And now I don't have to do any tuning! And believe me, I'm fine with that too!!
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post #21 of 121 Old 03-23-2016, 09:40 AM
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so after all is installed i don't or wouldn't have to go to a dyno tuner to tweak it? and it will give me all that i would need?
That is exactly correct. You can have this done and driving in a day. And I mean done.

No trying to figure our what you need. Order the kit for your year mustang, install it, and drive. No dyno. Done....
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post #22 of 121 Old 03-23-2016, 10:04 AM
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thank you meegs, im starting to believe more in to the pro m efi so im going to do more research in it, i just thought the holley stuff was more performance graded and the pro m more stock
The Pro-M system works equally well with very aggressive engine combinations. In fact, much better that the speed density stuff which relies heavily on manifold vacuum. The less vacuum, the less resolution for the MAP sensor. The Pro-M system does not need a MAP, and therefor does not care how much vacuum there is. It measures airflow and calculates Load. As I've said before, elegantly simple.
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post #23 of 121 Old 03-23-2016, 12:46 PM
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Will pro-m work with a crank trigger?
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post #24 of 121 Old 03-23-2016, 03:01 PM
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Will pro-m work with a crank trigger?

I don't think it does. It uses the pip in the tfi distributor to detect cam and engine position. I'd contact pro m just to make sure.


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post #25 of 121 Old 03-23-2016, 04:01 PM
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Will pro-m work with a crank trigger?
Yes, it does work with a crank trigger. It will work with a variety of engine position sensor configurations.

What I assume you are referring to is the MSD (My Spark Disappeared) magnetic trigger.

Things you should know:

This is a 4 tooth trigger. So, 4 pulses per engine revolution. Not exactly high resolution. Consider that a typical Ford crank sensor uses 36-1, and GM uses 60-2. By comparison, the MSD wheel is a joke.

Pro-M suggests that you just use the TFI distributor as a crank trigger. As it was explained to me by Chris, the TFI distributor sensor wheel has 8 teeth. Since the distributor rotates once per every two engine revolutions, that is also 4 teeth per revolution. But the Pro-M system reads both the leading and the trailing edges of the teeth, so that makes it 8 pulses per engine revolution, or twice as many as with the MSD trigger. Still not very high resolution, but the ECU also uses code to clean up and average those 8 pulses, which results in consistency from cylinder to cylinder similar to that of a high data rate system such as the 36-1.

I bring all of this up simply to illustrate that the My Spark Disappeared trigger is the worst choice.
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post #26 of 121 Old 03-23-2016, 07:19 PM
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Will i be able to rev to 7500rpms by using distributor as a crank trigger?
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post #27 of 121 Old 03-24-2016, 08:48 AM
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Will i be able to rev to 7500rpms by using distributor as a crank trigger?
Yes, absolutely, and well beyond.

I'm sure there is a limit to how quickly the hall sensor in the distributor can react, but with only 8 teeth, that limit will be well beyond the mechanical limits of any engine. It's not even a consideration.
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post #28 of 121 Old 03-24-2016, 10:45 PM
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] /Freezy cam/ Dart 331 / Hellion heat / Precision 7675/ PRO-M EFI

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post #29 of 121 Old 03-25-2016, 09:50 AM
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Yes, it does work with a crank trigger. It will work with a variety of engine position sensor configurations.

What I assume you are referring to is the MSD (My Spark Disappeared) magnetic trigger.

Things you should know:

This is a 4 tooth trigger. So, 4 pulses per engine revolution. Not exactly high resolution. Consider that a typical Ford crank sensor uses 36-1, and GM uses 60-2. By comparison, the MSD wheel is a joke.

Pro-M suggests that you just use the TFI distributor as a crank trigger. As it was explained to me by Chris, the TFI distributor sensor wheel has 8 teeth. Since the distributor rotates once per every two engine revolutions, that is also 4 teeth per revolution. But the Pro-M system reads both the leading and the trailing edges of the teeth, so that makes it 8 pulses per engine revolution, or twice as many as with the MSD trigger. Still not very high resolution, but the ECU also uses code to clean up and average those 8 pulses, which results in consistency from cylinder to cylinder similar to that of a high data rate system such as the 36-1.

I bring all of this up simply to illustrate that the My Spark Disappeared trigger is the worst choice.
This is bs, the flying magnet setup is proven rock solid. Use the holley sensor and you're good to go. I know people over 8.5k with no issues.

Just say, yes pro-m can be adapted to use cnp. Done

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post #30 of 121 Old 03-25-2016, 12:45 PM
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The Dominator is so far advance then the Pro -M . Comparing the two would not be far to the few Pro-M fans.

I think a more interesting thread would be Pro-M vs The PMS system. Two systems that are very similar .

Both are run and operated with one owner and work of the Ford ECU platform.





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post #31 of 121 Old 03-25-2016, 02:18 PM
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This is bs, the flying magnet setup is proven rock solid. Use the holley sensor and you're good to go. I know people over 8.5k with no issues.

Just say, yes pro-m can be adapted to use cnp. Done
I didn't say that it didn't work. What is said is that it offers the least resolution of all the options, and therefor is the least desirable option. And I backed that statement up with fact.
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post #32 of 121 Old 03-25-2016, 02:23 PM
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The Dominator is so far advance then the Pro -M . Comparing the two would not be far to the few Pro-M fans.

I think a more interesting thread would be Pro-M vs The PMS system. Two systems that are very similar .

Both are run and operated with one owner and work of the Ford ECU platform.





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post #33 of 121 Old 03-25-2016, 08:35 PM
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] /Freezy cam/ Dart 331 / Hellion heat / Precision 7675/ PRO-M EFI

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post #34 of 121 Old 03-25-2016, 11:22 PM
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I didn't say that it didn't work. What is said is that it offers the least resolution of all the options, and therefor is the least desirable option. And I backed that statement up with fact.
Well that's cool, not sure why you decided to single out the flying magnet setup. The holley can run any reluctor setup you'd like. So I wasn't sure where you were going with that.

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post #35 of 121 Old 03-26-2016, 01:29 AM
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What about the timing chain in a TFI setup? Any impact on accuracy?

Also how is a flying magnet setup going to indicate top dead center? Of course for a full sequential setup.
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