What's the advantage to changing over to COP's? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 11-19-2015, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
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What's the advantage to changing over to COP's?

Seems like a lot of added complication for a system that advertises to work well with the existing distributor/tfi setup (referring to the Pro M EFI).

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post #2 of 10 Old 11-19-2015, 10:44 AM
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More spark energy at high RPM without using a CDI box.

A crank fired system also will have MUCH better timing accuracy than you can get out of a TFI distributor pickup. Note that you can combine crank fired with a distributor.


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post #3 of 10 Old 11-19-2015, 04:37 PM
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I asked this question when purchasing my system. Since the TFI is no longer used in the Pro-M stand alone ECU, but crank, and cam position are indexed through the distributor position, I think the spark energy is the main advantage. For a naturally aspirated application, I don't see a substantial performance gain to be had with the CNP, it would be well worth while on a blown engine though. Particularly if it's seeing a lot of boost. My N/A 363 never skips a beat without the CNP, pulls well right up to 7 grand where the limiter is set.

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post #4 of 10 Old 11-20-2015, 11:07 AM
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Here's my real world experience.
My '91 was a six speed T-56, centrifugal blower & 200 shot NOS.
That car needed the 7al-3 box with crushed gap plugs.

My 93 is an auto & turbo car using Pro-m coil near plug. I forgot although I have it written down at home what the 2 cars have for plug gap. But I know the COP car is about double the spark gap.

Also it is my real world working knowledge that I dispute the OP's claim of added complication. Install a new Ford PIP/ Hall sensor.

the benefits far exceed Internet misunderstandings about added complications.

1993 Teal Cobra #2531 1 of 452, 347, Precision 7675, The entire kitchen sink....maybe 2 kitchen sinks at this point!
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post #5 of 10 Old 11-20-2015, 08:36 PM
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I agree, no more complicated than tfi and single coil/ msd box. in fact less complicated than adding msd box at least with the pro-m system.
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post #6 of 10 Old 11-21-2015, 09:00 AM
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one of the reasons I bought mine

'90 notch w/an "old school" cartech outlaw kit
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post #7 of 10 Old 11-27-2015, 02:02 PM
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My experience with TFI vs COP is that now, with LS coils on the car, it has never run better, and I'm actually able to get it to rev past 5000 without breaking up.

For several years, I was running a Megasquirt 1, with an MSD Digital 6 box. It ran ok, but anything over 5k, and it would start breaking up. I tried different plug gaps, adjusting the tune, more grounds, and nothing helped.

I switched to an MS3X, with LS coils, and it's now making more power with less boost, drives smoother than it ever has, and will easily pull to 6k rpm without any issue at all. Personally, I'm VERY happy with the switch. Plus, it allowed me to get even more wires out of view.


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post #8 of 10 Old 11-27-2015, 04:57 PM
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I'm at 24-25psi boost and 7500 RPM. I use the Holley HP with TFI distributor and it is fine. I have a CD ignition and MSD coil. It never skips a beat.

My RPM does not wind up fast enough to cause a timing index issue with the 8 point sample in the distributor. Engine basically parks at 6500 on the converter after a 5200 launch, and winds to 7500 or so with the glide. I'm eventually going to do a crank trigger, but for now it is not an issue.

The only issue I had with the Holley was a ground loop caused by Holley doing the chassis ground in the EEC common with the battery ground. When I grounded per Holley instructions using Holley harnesses, it was a mess about 6k. After I cut the Holley power ground off the battery and grounded to the chassis near where the head grounds, it all got perfect.

I tried a FAST dizzy, but the .467 shaft was .463 to .464 on about 5 distributors I measured. I could not buy a gear that fit, so I just kept the Ford OEM dizzy and returned the FAST.


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89 LX. 363, single turbo, Super Vic EFI, TFS high port heads by TEA, solid roller, glide. Holley HP EFI. (exact combo varies)
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post #9 of 10 Old 11-27-2015, 09:15 PM
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that's a nice engine bay!

can you post some close up pics of the coil setup/mounting?

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post #10 of 10 Old 11-28-2015, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
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that's a nice engine bay!

can you post some close up pics of the coil setup/mounting?
Thanks. I got the coil holders off of ebay, and then welded a couple pieces to them, to mount them to the K member. I would have done the same thing on the passenger's side, but I have my down pipe running through that part of the K member, so I mounted them behind the shock tower. Whenever I build my next setup, they will be getting moved down though.

If you go to my build thread, I have A LOT of pictures of everything that I've done.










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https://forums.corral.net/forums/turbochargers/1379238-unaturals-diy-build.html
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