MAF Transfer Function and Calibration Pro-M Efi - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 19 Old 11-07-2015, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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MAF Transfer Function and Calibration Pro-M Efi

I am swapping out my 85mm PMAS slot style sensor with a new 95mm PMAS slot style sensor, I asked for a 36lb calibration but just noticed PMAS calibrated the sensor for 42's. I also need to enter the 30pt transfer function into the Pro-M software, the transfer function PMAS gave me is a 37pt.

So my questions are: is sensor calibration even relevant in my application and what do I do about the transfer function?

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post #2 of 19 Old 11-07-2015, 10:01 AM
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I think the best answer is to check with chris at pro m.

I believe the calibration on their meters for a stand alone is more for the power rating of the engine. That way you get optimal resolution for the Maf transfer.

I could be wrong though.


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post #3 of 19 Old 11-07-2015, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not running a Pro-M sensor, its a PMAS. I'm contacting PMAS to get the correct calibration sensor, last time I had Chris get me a 30pt transfer function, I'm just going to send the sensor to Chris to do it again like last time since it worked out fine that way last time.
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post #4 of 19 Old 11-12-2015, 01:20 PM
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Here is the transfer function for the 42
0.150 12.356
0.250 16.017
0.500 26.264
0.741 43.365
0.905 59.445
1.069 78.568
1.233 100.264
1.397 124.346
1.560 150.972
1.724 180.598
1.888 213.889
2.052 251.591
2.216 294.423
2.379 342.990
2.543 397.724
2.707 458.866
2.871 526.486
3.034 600.527
3.198 680.874
3.362 767.433
3.526 860.198
3.690 959.319
3.853 1065.127
4.017 1178.136
4.181 1298.996
4.345 1428.406
4.509 1566.994
4.672 1715.158
4.836 1872.903
5.000 2039.697
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post #5 of 19 Old 11-12-2015, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_minnis View Post
I think the best answer is to check with chris at pro m.

I believe the calibration on their meters for a stand alone is more for the power rating of the engine. That way you get optimal resolution for the Maf transfer.

I could be wrong though.


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Close. Losing maf resolution is somewhat of a misnomer. A slot style Maf will output in increments of .001 volts and the PCM AD converter devides 5V by 1024. that is steps of .004V... more than enough.

Resolution loss is in the 30 point transfer function you put in the tune. you only get to type in 30 points of data and the computer draws a straight line between the points.

This is easily fixed by making the 30 points go from 0 to 4.5 volts or 0-3.5 volts and so on. This way your transfer function has the range you want.

There is really no such thing as a "MAF" with too much range. It's just that the tuner is typing numbers into the transfer function that don't need to be there.

Every car I tune personally uses a maf with range for 1500WHP weather it is 1500HP or 300HP. I just adjust the maf transfer function points to the range I need. This is why we supply a 512 point transfer function with our HPX-N2.

Some people sell all these different maf ranges so they can sell more mafs. I would love to have one maf for everybody, but until all these tuners can get educated correctly we have to offer multiple mafs.

Last edited by PMAS; 11-12-2015 at 01:32 PM.
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post #6 of 19 Old 11-13-2015, 01:06 PM
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For the $100 Pro-M charges for a base tune, the price includes you sending them you cold air intake from the MAF back and they put it on their flow bench. Then put that data along with you injector data into the tune.
It's a good value for the money, considering the possibility of human error.

If/ when I change from 3" to 4" I'm just going to mail it back to Chris to get it exact.
$100 isn't worth the alternative to me. I'm this deep into it already!

I'm not a tuner, so maybe I'm off base. But I don't "think" a standard transfer works for all applications?? Can anyone confirm or deny that?
My thinking is having my specific setup flow tested and a 30 transfer spreadsheet built would be the most accurate? Maybe I'm wrong?

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post #7 of 19 Old 11-13-2015, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meegs View Post
For the $100 Pro-M charges for a base tune, the price includes you sending them you cold air intake from the MAF back and they put it on their flow bench. Then put that data along with you injector data into the tune.
It's a good value for the money, considering the possibility of human error.

If/ when I change from 3" to 4" I'm just going to mail it back to Chris to get it exact.
$100 isn't worth the alternative to me. I'm this deep into it already!

I'm not a tuner, so maybe I'm off base. But I don't "think" a standard transfer works for all applications?? Can anyone confirm or deny that?
My thinking is having my specific setup flow tested and a 30 transfer spreadsheet built would be the most accurate? Maybe I'm wrong?
You are correct, having the exact transfer function is ideal. 100 is a good deal as well. Our standard transfer functions are generally +-3% and we offer a 37 point actual flow test for 60.00.

Keep in mind that PRO-M can only flow to 1200KG/HR at about 40in h20 and any data higher than that is extrapolated with math and is not actual flow data anyway.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-06-2015, 01:53 AM
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-06-2015, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMAS View Post
Some people sell all these different maf ranges so they can sell more mafs. I would love to have one maf for everybody, but until all these tuners can get educated correctly we have to offer multiple mafs.
Selling 30 Mass air meters with different ranges vs. selling 30 Mass air meters with the same range in one month. You're still selling 30 meters in that same month, are you not?

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post #10 of 19 Old 12-06-2015, 03:42 PM
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I think he's implying that it would be a much easier thing to deal with from a manufacturing and sales/stocking standpoint, but he is forced to follow the market. It would certainly be more profitable to only deal with one part # vs 30. Time to calibrate, time to label, separate packaging, sorting out the particulars when customers are ordering... It all adds up.

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post #11 of 19 Old 12-07-2015, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by fnkyuncl View Post
I think he's implying that it would be a much easier thing to deal with from a manufacturing and sales/stocking standpoint, but he is forced to follow the market. It would certainly be more profitable to only deal with one part # vs 30. Time to calibrate, time to label, separate packaging, sorting out the particulars when customers are ordering... It all adds up.
We could go back and forth on the points you mentioned above but it adds nothing to the thread, so I'm agreeing to disagree.

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post #12 of 19 Old 12-07-2015, 10:31 AM
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Fair enough.
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-08-2015, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnkyuncl View Post
I think he's implying that it would be a much easier thing to deal with from a manufacturing and sales/stocking standpoint, but he is forced to follow the market. It would certainly be more profitable to only deal with one part # vs 30. Time to calibrate, time to label, separate packaging, sorting out the particulars when customers are ordering... It all adds up.

100% correct. On top of that, if you have a standard maf sensor you can start to build a maf transfer function database for that maf when it's installed in different housings used with different filters etc. Eventually you won't need to send mafs in for a flow test a lot of the time.

That's also one of the reasons the HPX is so popular. The tuner knows when he gets one and installs it in his application, he knows what the transfer function will be and he doesn't have to worry about the customer possibly ordering the wrong maf.

Last edited by PMAS; 12-08-2015 at 09:53 AM.
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-08-2015, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Plummer View Post
Selling 30 Mass air meters with different ranges vs. selling 30 Mass air meters with the same range in one month. You're still selling 30 meters in that same month, are you not?
You are but you have made life really hard for the tuners and confusing for the customers. Then if they have a maf for 30's and they upgrade to 60's they have to either buy a new maf or pay to recalibrate their old one.

Last edited by PMAS; 12-08-2015 at 09:58 AM.
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-08-2015, 09:42 PM
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I would love to have one maf for everybody, but until all these tuners can get educated correctly we have to offer multiple mafs.
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Originally Posted by PMAS View Post
Eventually you won't need to send mafs in for a flow test a lot of the time.
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but you have made life really hard for the tuners and confusing for the customers. Then if they have a maf for 30's and they upgrade to 60's they have to either buy a new maf or pay to recalibrate their old one.
If I'm understanding what you're saying it's hard on the tuners and customers now with all the different ranges of MAFs, so wouldn't educating them be easier? Why don't you educate the tuners and customers alike with informational print, data, and videos? Your idea/concept of one MAF must be easier than many. And if what you're saying is true and is something you truly believe, wouldn't potential customers purchase your mass air meter instead of the competition?

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Last edited by Michael Plummer; 12-09-2015 at 05:12 AM.
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-09-2015, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Plummer View Post
If I'm understanding what you're saying it's hard on the tuners and customers now with all the different ranges of MAFs, so wouldn't educating them be easier? Why don't you educate the tuners and customers alike with informational print, data, and videos? Your idea/concept of one MAF must be easier than many. And if what you're saying is true and is something you truly believe, wouldn't potential customers purchase your mass air meter instead of the competition?
Changing the way most the customers and tuners think about how mass air sensors function is defiantly not an easy task.

We are working on this actually.

I'm not sure what you are asking with your last point? We offer and sell mass airflow sensors both ways.
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post #17 of 19 Old 12-09-2015, 09:04 PM
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I'm not sure what you are asking?
Sorry but I'm a terrible at explaining things in print, so please bear with me.
You stated you wanted to have just one MAF to sell to customers because carrying different ranges was confusing. What's stopping you from do that now (selling one MAF range)?

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Last edited by Michael Plummer; 12-09-2015 at 09:06 PM.
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post #18 of 19 Old 12-11-2015, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Plummer View Post
Sorry but I'm a terrible at explaining things in print, so please bear with me.
You stated you wanted to have just one MAF to sell to customers because carrying different ranges was confusing. What's stopping you from do that now (selling one MAF range)?
Because we would miss sales from the people that don't know you can use one maf and that's bad business.
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post #19 of 19 Old 12-14-2015, 10:07 AM
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PMAS, if you really believe one MAF with multiple ranges is the way to go, I think you should go for it. Being revolutionary in an industry shouldn't make you consider it "bad business." If the idea is good, you will likely be successful in the end. If not...

But I think we are off topic.

To the original poster, turboLXstang, you are fine. You don't need a meter that's "calibrated" for specific injectors. Injector calibrations are just a fudge deal so that someone can simply swap injectors and a maf and still have a car that drives with proper fueling. In reality though, it's a fudge because the load calculation will be wrong. What you really want is 1) a meter that has enough range for the hp expectations of the car (you do), 2) good injector and displacement data to enter in the tune (hopefully you do), and 3) a good MAF transfer function (you do). Don't worry about there being 37 points. Enter all the low values exactly as they have been provided to you and then choose every other value at the very top.

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