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post #1 of 19 Old 12-22-2014, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Have questions about EFI systems

I'm currently building a 92 GT. These are the major components that are involved. 408 Dart block, AFR225s, Super Vic Spyder intake, ID 1000s, Glenns performance 1000 hp cobra fuel system, Innovators West balancer with built in magnetic crank trigger, T56 magnum, full maximum motor sport suspension.
My question are as follows, I'm looking for a system that is best suitable for street application. What wiring do these systems come with, for example injector wiring etc? What extra pieces should I purchase as well? If I gut all wiring from the computer, is this new system going to replace all of that? I plan on using all computer wiring from 92 on a 87 T-top i am building, so I don't want to get rid of any thing I might need later. I've never done this before, so I'm trying to do my research before I start talking to dealers, I have heard a lot of good things about Big Stuff 3. But still don't know if thats what I need and all the parts I need to make this system work for me .. Thanks in advance..

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post #2 of 19 Old 12-23-2014, 04:22 AM
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I currently have the big stuff 3 in my 94 Cobra, and not being a tuner this car has never run to its potential due to the fact that I don't know how to tune it so it gets expensive to take and have dyno tuned by someone that I have not been able to keep up on the tune. I have a new build going and have just ordered the Holly Dominator system for that car. The Holly system whether it is the Dominator or the HP system are a very user friendly system from what I have investigated. once a base tune is entered to get the car running and a target air-fuel ratio is set the system is self learning. also the Holly system is a little easier on the wallet. I have found that there are quite a few very fast cars running the Holly system. I I know of a few 6 second guys that have gave up on the big stuff 3 and went to the Holly system. as it has been said before tuners do not have much good to say about the Holly system because it cuts into their wallets. I would go to their website and take a look. Good luck


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post #3 of 19 Old 12-23-2014, 03:17 PM
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if your looking for one of the "higher end" systems i would check into the ProM stuff. youve got an excellent source for info here with Michael Plummer. if your looking for a more PNP style system that will reuse your stock harness and be less expensive, i would check into either the megasquirt (i had the gen 1 PNP ms2) or Stinger's PiMP (i have now), both are very good systems, but they require tuning. IMHO the PiMP is easier to use since they supply you with a simple/easy to understand quick start guide and a startup base map suited closely to your combo. as for the ProM, i dont know how much tuning (if any) is done by the end user, youll have to check wiht one of theose guys about that.

replaced the 93'ish coupe with a 76 F100, 393, 11.5:1, TEA CNC 205 TW's, custom Hyd Roller, Super Vic, 830 HP, AOD, Edge custom conv., Silverfox SPT-MAC-TB.
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-24-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJs92Fox View Post
I'm currently building a 92 GT. These are the major components that are involved. 408 Dart block, AFR225s, Super Vic Spyder intake, ID 1000s, Glenns performance 1000 hp cobra fuel system, Innovators West balancer with built in magnetic crank trigger, T56 magnum, full maximum motor sport suspension.
My question are as follows, I'm looking for a system that is best suitable for street application. What wiring do these systems come with, for example injector wiring etc? What extra pieces should I purchase as well? If I gut all wiring from the computer, is this new system going to replace all of that? I plan on using all computer wiring from 92 on a 87 T-top i am building, so I don't want to get rid of any thing I might need later. I've never done this before, so I'm trying to do my research before I start talking to dealers, I have heard a lot of good things about Big Stuff 3. But still don't know if thats what I need and all the parts I need to make this system work for me .. Thanks in advance..
Welcome to the world of aftermarket fuel injection! It sounds as if you're looking to run a decidedly non-stock ignition system, so something plug and play is not likely to be your best bet here. With aftermarket EFI, the internal modifications are less of a question than what electronics you will be running and what features you need. Here are some questions you'll want to ask to get you pointed in the right direction.

1. You mentioned the damper having a built in crank trigger. How are the teeth arranged? Four equally spaced teeth, a 36-1 pattern like on an Explorer, or something else?

2. Will this crank trigger be combined with a cam sync?

3. Is it important to you to be able to tune each cylinder individually, or is this a bit more work than would fit your tuning budget?

4. Is it going to be running a distributor? Coil packs? Coil per plug?

5. Will you need the ECU to control anything beyond fuel and ignition? Basically, think of anything you might want to have a black box control (fans, throttle stop, two step, you name it) and it's worth looking into if you can get an ECU that has this as standard equipment.

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post #5 of 19 Old 12-27-2014, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by boostdcoupe View Post
if your looking for one of the "higher end" systems i would check into the ProM stuff. youve got an excellent source for info here with Michael Plummer.
Hey boostdcoupe,
Thanks for recommending me as a source of information on the Pro-M system. Now if I could get paid for all the recommendations I do on this system, I might have a nice nest egg for my retirement.

AJs92Fox's questions and my answers

Q) I'm looking for a system that is best suitable for street application.
A) I believe any Engine Management System (EMS) will work on the street. How hard or easy is the learning curve and how hard is it to get a car up and running properly will depend on your tuning knowledge. Just or the record, I had none when I installed my Pro-M EFI system.

Q) What wiring do these systems come with, for example injector wiring etc?
A) The Pro-M EFI comes with a complete Engine Management harness to run your car and yes, your injector harness is a part of your Engine Management harness.

Q) What extra pieces should I purchase as well?
A) Extra pieces...None. But you have options like Innovate widebands, and a coil on plug option.

Q) If I gut all wiring from the computer, is this new system going to replace all of that?
A) Slow down before you start ripping things out. If you purchase a Pro-M system, you will get the harness that goes to your new OBDII Spanish Oak processor and injector harness. This is everything you'll need to run your vehicle.

Q) I plan on using all computer wiring from 92 on a 87 T-top i am building, so I don't want to get rid of any thing I might need later.
A) This is why Pro-M custom builds a harness just for your setup. Think of it as a stk. harness made especially for you by Ford.

Q) I've never done this before, so I'm trying to do my research before I start talking to dealers.
A) Neither did I and you can read about my experience and or watch the videos it may be easier.
https://forums.corral.net/forums/supe...nt-system.html

In closing, The Pro-M EFI system would be a great choice due to the excellent drivability it provides, and it comes with a complete replacement EFI harness. It is also very simple to use, which will be very important, especially to someone who has never done this before. Do a search on Pro-M EFI and you'll hear the same comments among it's users, great drivability, ease to get running, quality product, easy to understand, etc. Or checkout Pro-M EFI on Youtube.

Here's the 1st video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RmimUZ0hjeA
Good luck with whatever decision you make
Michael Plummer

849rwhp and 771rwtq SAE
ProCharger D1 and Snow Performance Water/Methanol
Pro-M Racing EMS

Last edited by Michael Plummer; 12-27-2014 at 07:49 AM.
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-27-2014, 09:08 AM
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LOL... your always such a great help Mike!

replaced the 93'ish coupe with a 76 F100, 393, 11.5:1, TEA CNC 205 TW's, custom Hyd Roller, Super Vic, 830 HP, AOD, Edge custom conv., Silverfox SPT-MAC-TB.
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post #7 of 19 Old 12-27-2014, 11:05 AM
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One thing I will give Chris Richards, If you watch the video Mike Plummer made. His ecc's are made side by side with fords. They have the best quality parts and control money can buy.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-27-2014, 11:20 AM
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Not trying to bad mouth anyone's system, but there is no way in hell I would trust a system to self learn and self tune my engine such as proM system. Seems like a huge mistake when you have a ton of money wrapped up in an engine of this caliber.

Personally I would go with something simple like the pimp (which I have) or the holley dominator.

Just another slow mustang with a single turbo....
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-27-2014, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by -Wraith- View Post
Not trying to bad mouth anyone's system, but there is no way in hell I would trust a system to self learn and self tune my engine such as proM system. Seems like a huge mistake when you have a ton of money wrapped up in an engine of this caliber.
I respect your opinion but to set the record straight, the Pro-M EFI system does not self learn or self tuning. It's a Mass Air EMS that's self correcting based on the desired lambda being commanded for any given load at any particular rpm. This system was designed and is programmed by Ford Engineers. The same Engineers who program Ford's EMS for their fleet of race vehicles.

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Last edited by Michael Plummer; 12-27-2014 at 11:44 AM.
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post #10 of 19 Old 12-27-2014, 02:45 PM
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Even with the megasquirt Ecus that self learn:

With the registered version of tuner studio ( you need the registered version to autotune) you can generate your AFR and VE tables based on engine data before you autotune. This gets you in the ballpark before you fine tune it.

One of the nice things about a mass air system is that if you have a good transfer function for your meter and injectors it should be very close on the pulsewidth calculation out of the box and not need any further tuning.


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post #11 of 19 Old 12-29-2014, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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I've done some research on Pro-m's product, sounds real promising!!
With that said will I be able to use some of the parts I already have bought? Like the magnetic crank trigger, MSD cam sync distributor.
Sounds like Pro-M's system could have these options?
I'll be calling them tomorrow? To get more info.
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-29-2014, 05:45 AM
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With that said will I be able to use some of the parts I already have bought? Like the magnetic crank trigger, MSD cam sync distributor.
Sounds like Pro-M's system could have these options?
Distributor and TFI module or magnet crank trigger are considered low data rate ignition. For every revolution you get 4 timing events because only 4 cylinders fired. The next revolution the other 4 cylinders fire and you get 4 more timing events. So you need 2 full revolutions for all cylinders to fire. That's a total of 8 timing events and that's considered a low data rate ignition.

A high data rate ignition that uses a 36 minus 1 crank trigger wheel will have 70 timing events for 2 complete revolutions of the engine.

So if you use the Pro-M EFI there is no need to use a magnetic crank trigger. The Pro-M EMS processor cleans up the signal provided by the TFI distributor, by averaging it, and delivers a spark advance every bit as consistent and accurate as if the signal had been provided by a crank mounted sensor.

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post #13 of 19 Old 12-29-2014, 08:39 AM
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I have a like new MS PNP sitting on the shelf collecting dust, I tried it off and on for a few weeks back and forth with the Ford EEC IV system. I will never use a batch fire injector system in my car again. The SEFI Ford system is much better at idle and light throttle cruise.

Is the Pro-M SEFI or batch fire on injectors?


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89 LX. 363, single turbo, Super Vic EFI, TFS high port heads by TEA, solid roller, glide. Holley HP EFI. (exact combo varies)
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-29-2014, 12:24 PM
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The SEFI Ford system is much better at idle and light throttle cruise. Is the Pro-M SEFI or batch fire on injectors?
The Pro-M is SEFI.

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post #15 of 19 Old 12-30-2014, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Just ordered my Pro-m EFI sys!!
Chris and Shawn were great to work with. There product seems very user friendly, they took the time and had the patience to go over all my noobie questions and concerns. They are currently running some specials as well. Thanks for all the Feedback .
You can check out my noobie build on the member build forum!!
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-30-2014, 07:35 PM
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I respect your opinion but to set the record straight, the Pro-M EFI system does not self learn or self tuning. It's a Mass Air EMS that's self correcting based on the desired lambda being commanded for any given load at any particular rpm. This system was designed and is programmed by Ford Engineers. The same Engineers who program Ford's EMS for their fleet of race vehicles.
Ok, i guess i should have been more specific. I will NEVER trust an ecu to make the exact decisions of what my car needs, when i have 1000s of dollars sunk into the engine, I would rather someone tune it who knows what theyre doing, rather than the ecu doing the work for an engine that is out of the ordinary as far as factory vehicles go. 1000+rwhp, no thanks on the ecu doing the work.

Just another slow mustang with a single turbo....
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post #17 of 19 Old 12-30-2014, 10:09 PM
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Ok, i guess i should have been more specific. I will NEVER trust an ecu to make the exact decisions of what my car needs, when i have 1000s of dollars sunk into the engine, I would rather someone tune it who knows what theyre doing, rather than the ecu doing the work for an engine that is out of the ordinary as far as factory vehicles go. 1000+rwhp, no thanks on the ecu doing the work.
Like I said before, I respect your decision, but I'll leave you with this. Anyone running an EMS probably has a lot of money in their car and that's something we both can agree on. But here is where we disagree and it's not necessarily a bad thing. You trust an experienced tuner and I trust a team of Ford Engineers. I could argue, that the tuner is programming a chip, or an EMS to do something based on something, which is no different than what a team of Ford Engineers did to their EMS. But in the end, we both got what worked for us.

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ProCharger D1 and Snow Performance Water/Methanol
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Last edited by Michael Plummer; 12-30-2014 at 10:16 PM.
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-01-2015, 06:58 PM
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I just got an email from Chris there.. Great help but not what I really wanted to hear.... Basically would have to rip out everything I've already done and change over to their stuff...

Might have to do some reading into the Holley stuff, I really hoped the Pro-M would've let me use a good amount of my stuff because I wanted an entire new harness for the car too...

Just don't want to deal with getting low balled on everything I already bought...

Have to figure it out.

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post #19 of 19 Old 01-02-2015, 05:39 AM
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because I wanted an entire new harness for the car too...
They can sell you a harness.

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ProCharger D1 and Snow Performance Water/Methanol
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