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post #1 of 37 Old 02-10-2013, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation New install of an Old School Accel Gen 6

Well here it is a new install of an old ECU.

This is all the stuff that came with the purchase:
1) Tuning guide
2) Callmap software book and calibration paperwork
3) Callmap software 6.32
4) Gm 3 bar MAP sensor and instructions
5) Knock sensor and instructions
6) Accel Gen 6 ECU with Dan White harness to Adapt to A9L ECU
7) Programming cable
8) IBM ThinkPad 760XD with AC and DC power cords.
9) (Not Shown) harness for a 94-95 wired to use an A9L ECU. It has a PMAS fan controller




I have also printed off the generic Accel book and a couple pages of a how to build a new program cable

I still need to buy a wideband kit ($200) and if I want to use the IAC I need to buy a Gm style ($190).

I am trying to figure out if I could hook the ECU up and at least read it before I buy anything else to insure it will work. If I can read it can I at least fire the car up with out the MAP sensor hooked up? I am not keen on cutting the factory one out and then put a GM style on.

The documentation is geared toward a person using the Accel harness. I should be able to figure it out.

Something interesting is this is a batch fire system. I thought batch fire meant the same as bank fire. No, it fires all the injectors at the same time. I wonder if I will need a bigger fuel rail when I get done. It is ok if I do.

I will post more when I hook it up. If someone has the answer about the MAP sensor-Can I just unhook the factory one and start the car? You know I will just try that will the stock ECU and see what happens. IDLE only. I want to make sure this works before I cut wires. If it doesnít I will get my money back.


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post #2 of 37 Old 02-10-2013, 09:27 PM
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Cool stuff!

Yes you can try it without the MAP sensor hooked up but you may not get very far.

However does the Accel let you use an alpha-N strategy instead of speed density? That uses strictly Throttle Position and engine RPM to calculate fuel, no MAP involved and would be just what you want if you just want to get cracking to test things out.

I'm a little surprised to hear that it's a 1-batch system. It definitely only has one output for injector ground? That will still get the job done but you may need to be on the rich side at idle and low rpm, maybe under 1200 or so.


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post #3 of 37 Old 02-11-2013, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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You are right Seijiro; the car ran pretty bad without the stock MAP sensor with the stock ECU.

I got bored yesterday and hooked up the Accel unit and was able to communicate to it with the supplied laptop. I was relieved. Not that I didn’t trust the seller but with these electronics you never know. I was imagining “It worked when I removed it” when I was making the call saying it was DOA.

It has some sort of base fuel map wizard, asking injector size, horsepower at torque at the max rpm. I ran through it and the car fired up but died a second later. I think this was because of the no MAP sensor being hooked up. You have to set your base timing to 10 degrees and the TPS voltage to .5 with this system. Those could have been why also because I have no clue what they are.

The system does support the alpha n management. I will try that when I hook the system up tomorrow. I am excited because I can get a feel for the ECU without cutting my wiring.

Tonight I set my timing. It had been so long I forgot the timing marks were on the skinny side of the dampener. I had to borrow timing light and purchase a distributor wrench. Turns out the time was already set to 10 degrees, loll. My TPS was at .850, I had to slot out the sensor to get it to read .5

Tomorrow I will hook it u and see if I can get it to idle. Wish me luck!!

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post #4 of 37 Old 02-11-2013, 09:02 PM
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Glad to hear it's in good shape!

Yeah alpha-n will let you start playing right away, but it may make you want to pull your hair out trying to get it tuned well.

I would move to SD as soon as reasonable. As far as cutting goes, why cut? If you're interfacing with the factory 60 pin harness, you can de-pin just the wires for the factory MAP sensor from there, fold them back and tape them down. Then run your separate MAP sensor wires in it's place. I think DIYAutotune sells wire with the pins on them that will pop right in to the connector.

That way there's no surgery, and you can cleanly reverse any changes. The only drawback is the factory MAP sensor plug dangling by the firewall but that's not the end of the world.

Good luck!

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post #5 of 37 Old 02-11-2013, 09:13 PM
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looks like a C3 GM ECM, maybe a '165?

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post #6 of 37 Old 02-12-2013, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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Not much luck tonight. I bought a new coil for the car and installed it. I hooked the battery back up and went to start it. I must have forgotten to shut the ignition off after I checked the TPS voltage last night. Battery was dead. The good news was I had it on the charger anyway.

I removed the interiors pieces and whatnot to unscrew the stock ECU. After that the battery was up enough to fire up. My old coil was weak. Timing it last night the light wasn’t flashing really well. The car idled well.

Installed the Accel ECU. Ran through the global config: setting it to alpha n and what not. Setting the values to what the book says. I ran through the fuel base wizard. inserting the correct values. Tried to fire up the car, it did the same thing as last night. I checked in the book again. It says Alfa n uses 1 bar map sensor. I don’t know why. The engine wants to fire cause it idles for about 1-2 seconds and dies. I lean out the idle settings and try again. No go.

At this point in time I think it is either dumping too much fuel or the lack of a map sensor is messing it up. Fuel settings are in pulse width. The starting setting is has is like 11ms. I have no idea if this is close.

Good news is I was looking at my wiring for the map sensor. It looks like it has been repaired once. So I will get the MAP sensor installed and try it tomorrow.

My mustang’s engine is stock. So I will see if there is any pulse width info I can find

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post #7 of 37 Old 02-12-2013, 10:30 PM
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I could believe 11ms. I have about 6.8ms in my 393 with 42lb injectors. You're only down like 25% on the displacement but less than 1/2 my injector.

If the car fires up but then dies off, you likely need to give it *more* fuel for a couple of seconds after it fires up, rather than pulling it out. Engines like to be rich when they're cold.

If their alpha-n requires a MAP signal it's not true alpha-n, but if that's what their book says is needed, well it is what it is.

Great to hear that you were able to get it to catch though!

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post #8 of 37 Old 02-13-2013, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 34blazer View Post
looks like a C3 GM ECM, maybe a '165?
Not sure what it is. i can post the serial number and revision later today when i get home.

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post #9 of 37 Old 02-13-2013, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=seijirou;11293980]I could believe 11ms. I have about 6.8ms in my 393 with 42lb injectors. You're only down like 25% on the displacement but less than 1/2 my injector.

If the car fires up but then dies off, you likely need to give it *more* fuel for a couple of seconds after it fires up, rather than pulling it out. Engines like to be rich when they're cold.

If their alpha-n requires a MAP signal it's not true alpha-n, but if that's what their book says is needed, well it is what it is.QUOTE]

I could smell fuel is why i thought it was rich. I will install the MAP sensor and if it soesn't help iI will kick up the pulse width.

I got the jumper made for the GM 3 bar map sensor. I thought it was a standard weatherpack connector, but there were a couple "####" not in the correct spot. So I Got a saw and modified it.

On the map sensor for Alpha N. On page 88 of the book it says "Whenever switching from speed/denisty to apha N, the vacuum hose must be removed from the MAP sensor and only a 1 bar sensor can be used." I wonder if that would make it a BAR sensor? I tried with and without the Ford sensor hooked up. I did not expect it to make a difference becuase ford uses frequency and GM uses analog signal.

One other thing i am concerned about is on the view screen, the TPS sesnor value doesn't change and stays at zero. The Map sensor value ahd a -14 reading. I thought both of those were wierd. We will see

Tonigt i will get the map sensor hooked up and see what happens. If i cant get it to stay running by 8pm tonight i will be a little discouraged.

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post #10 of 37 Old 02-13-2013, 03:39 PM
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i thought alpha-N was MAF based on a GM ECM

*edit* d/r, alpha-N dosesnt use either, just calc's for TPS vs. RPM


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post #11 of 37 Old 02-13-2013, 04:54 PM
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I could smell fuel is why i thought it was rich. I will install the MAP sensor and if it soesn't help iI will kick up the pulse width.
Well, go with your gut first. After all you're there with the car, not me.

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I got the jumper made for the GM 3 bar map sensor. I thought it was a standard weatherpack connector, but there were a couple "####" not in the correct spot. So I Got a saw and modified it.

On the map sensor for Alpha N. On page 88 of the book it says "Whenever switching from speed/denisty to apha N, the vacuum hose must be removed from the MAP sensor and only a 1 bar sensor can be used." I wonder if that would make it a BAR sensor?
Removing the vac hose makes a lot more sense now. You're exactly right it's used as a BAR sensor.

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Originally Posted by mr_minnis View Post
I tried with and without the Ford sensor hooked up. I did not expect it to make a difference becuase ford uses frequency and GM uses analog signal.

One other thing i am concerned about is on the view screen, the TPS sesnor value doesn't change and stays at zero. The Map sensor value ahd a -14 reading. I thought both of those were wierd. We will see

Tonigt i will get the map sensor hooked up and see what happens. If i cant get it to stay running by 8pm tonight i will be a little discouraged.
Don't get discouraged, walking in to the unknown is a challenge. Note down all the stuff that makes you scratch your head, try everything that comes to mind, and if you start to feel like you're not getting anywhere take a break and then do some homework when you're up to it. Also try to take inventory of the things you may be unconsciously assuming and do some homework to verify that those assumptions are correct.

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post #12 of 37 Old 02-13-2013, 08:22 PM
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considering this unit was PnP for TPI cars(with the '165 ECM) you can ask for help at thirdgen.org. lots of information and support over there. i would suspect it uses much of the same hardware as a GM ECM and maybe even the same processor(Motorola 68hc11).

DFI and ECM - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

also try here...

GearHead EFI Forums

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post #13 of 37 Old 02-13-2013, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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considering this unit was PnP for TPI cars(with the '165 ECM) you can ask for help at thirdgen.org. lots of information and support over there. i would suspect it uses much of the same hardware as a GM ECM and maybe even the same processor(Motorola 68hc11).

DFI and ECM - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

also try here...

GearHead EFI Forums

thanks for the links. I will check them out
todays update:


It idles (well it did, we will see what happens when it cools off)!!

It appears the problem was not the timing, the TPS setting, or the MAP sensor. It appears the fuel map the wizard generated was on the lean side. I was able to log pulse width of the car running the couple seconds. The width shrunk like .75 Ms. I went in and adjusted the entire map up 125%

When that happened it fired up and idled. It was not smooth. It varied by 100 rpm. I leaned out the based fuel map a little bit and it smoothed out quite a bit. Keep in mind I do not have an IAC. I think it was within 50 or so at 900 RPM when I was done.

I kept flooding the car and finally figured out if I set the cranking pulse width to 0 (means it uses the base fuel map only) it would fire up and burn off all the fuel. I also finally figured out that you start at 0 on the pulse widths for cranking at work your way up.

Now I have a couple more things to look at. For some reason the ECU coolant temp is different from my gauge. I would say buy at least 30 degrees. The ECU thinks it is hotter. Also the oxygen sensors voltage is was low like .16. I thought they should be about.5 volts or something. I hope I donít have to purchase new O2 sensors.

It looks like I have some more reading to do because I cannot rev the car. It should not be too hard. I have gotten this far, When I started I knew nothing about this stuff. I still donít know anything but I am happy I have figured most of it out.

Now since the car can idle I need to figure out what to purchase. A wideband sensor or an IAC sensor. They are about the same price. The Wideband I was looking at was the innovative one for 209 that comes with the data logging. This will let you tie a Wideband into it and use it a 3rd sensor

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post #14 of 37 Old 02-13-2013, 11:14 PM
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im assuming you need the 4 wire stepper IAC found on GM and Chrysler vehicles? if so, a boneyard will have what you need for a fraction of the price. i modified my ford IAB housing to work with the stepper IAC, though an adapter can be found for under 100 bones. whats the specs of the engine this unit is running? since you have one injector driver(batch fire seq) your total calculated PW might be around 1.6-2ms at idle depending on your setup. can you datalog and export the log to .csv? i can take a look if you are still having trouble. im also using a GM ECM to run my 302, im sure much of the calibration is similar, just simplified more for the end user.

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post #15 of 37 Old 02-14-2013, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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im assuming you need the 4 wire stepper IAC found on GM and Chrysler vehicles? if so, a boneyard will have what you need for a fraction of the price.
yup that is exactly what i need. I even my try a local parts store becuase the yards around here leave a lot to be desired. Do you have a car in mind i could use to search from ?

[/QUOTE] i modified my ford IAB housing to work with the stepper IAC, though an adapter can be found for under 100 bones.[/QUOTE]

I will buy the adapter. i don't want to modify so i can go back to using the oem stuff.

[/QUOTE]
whats the specs of the engine this unit is running? .[/QUOTE]

totally stock 88 302 HO. it was (i guess it still is) a speed denisty motor. Wait I guess i just did put headers and an X pipe on it. I also removed the air silencer, lol!

.[/QUOTE]
since you have one injector driver(batch fire seq) your total calculated PW might be around 1.6-2ms at idle depending on your setup. can you datalog and export the log to .csv? i can take a look if you are still having trouble. im also using a GM ECM to run my 302, im sure much of the calibration is similar, just simplified more for the end user.[/QUOTE]

Humm i am not sure how i can get the files out of the computer.(remember the movie Zoolander? where they beat the computer with a bat to get the files out.) it runs win 98 plus. I don't really want to put it on the internet. I wonder if it has usb ports ? I will check and let you know.

This thread really isn't a cry for help. I thought it would be good to semi document an install of something old. Mainly to show these older systems will still work.

Thats cool you are runing a gm computeri your mustang. How come ? I am curoius is all?

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yup that is exactly what i need. I even my try a local parts store becuase the yards around here leave a lot to be desired. Do you have a car in mind i could use to search from ?


whats the specs of the engine this unit is running?
totally stock 88 302 HO. it was (i guess it still is) a speed denisty motor. Wait I guess i just did put headers and an X pipe on it. I also removed the air silencer, lol!

since you have one injector driver(batch fire seq) your total calculated PW might be around 1.6-2ms at idle depending on your setup. can you datalog and export the log to .csv? i can take a look if you are still having trouble. im also using a GM ECM to run my 302, im sure much of the calibration is similar, just simplified more for the end user

Humm i am not sure how i can get the files out of the computer.(remember the movie Zoolander? where they beat the computer with a bat to get the files out.) it runs win 98 plus. I don't really want to put it on the internet. I wonder if it has usb ports ? I will check and let you know.

This thread really isn't a cry for help. I thought it would be good to semi document an install of something old. Mainly to show these older systems will still work.

Thats cool you are runing a gm computeri your mustang. How come ? I am curoius is all?

if the local yard has GM cars and trucks or even chryslers you should be able to score the proper IAC needed. depending on the actual connection from the ECM it should be plug n play. i say this because some IAC steppers use a square plug and most others use the rectuangular plug. i snagged a couple of IACs from the boneyard for under 15 bucks, not too bad.


if you can export your datalog as .csv, it makes it viewable with excel spreadsheet. you can transfer data to a memory card or CD to another computer if you'd rather not connect your lappy to the enet.

from what i see the dfi youre using is a modified GM ECM, its good that you are documenting it, even the C3 series is a powerful piece. also, with the harness you are one step closer to using a more powerful ECM known as Dynamic EFI. worth a look if you are interested. heres a short vid of a quick WOT run, a few items are displayed from the datastream.


I opted to use a GM ECM, more specifically, the P4 series. I looked around to see what was offered to the ford community and didnt find much, which was surprising to me. my car was equipped with the SD and i wanted to take advantage of the modifications and make sure it was making safe power. the mass air set up was too expensive(IMO) and the calibrations were/are lacking as compared to a GM calibration. the P4 1227730 ECM has various different masks/binarys that can be suited to just about anything out there. im using a highly modified version of the stock TPI code(AUJP), known as Super AUJP V4. some features include; extended VE tables, extended PE fueling table to 8000 rpm, extended spark tables, Efan controls**, launch mode, WBO2 logging along with any other data needed, knock control, etc. theres another popular mask/binary out there that covers boosted applications or nitrous. info can be found at code59.org. so as you can see theres way more support using a GM ECM. with your current DFI harness it looks like you can repin the ECM connectors to be able to use a P4 if you were ever interested.

**i made a note of this because Efan controls are great with this code. it is able to activate 2 separate Efan circuits if needed while adding IAC counts to prevent droop in idle. meaning no more external fan controllers.

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I don’t know what happened but today I went to fire the car up and it acted just like it did yesterday when I started. I don’t know what happened, the only change I made what replaced the coolant sensor with a gm style as the books says. I figured that is what was up with the temp in the ECU. I messed with the setting like I did yesterday and it ran a little better but did not stay running. I will mess with it more tomorrow when I have more time. I also purchased a 1 bar map sensor. However I will need to modify my connector to make it work.

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post #18 of 37 Old 02-15-2013, 03:34 AM
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this may help you calibrate your lookup tables...

FuryWorld GMECM page

the section describing alpha-N

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post #19 of 37 Old 02-17-2013, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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I donít know what else to do:

It seems either my TPS works or the MAP works (a little) but never both. The system has a view screen to view the sensors. The MAP pressure doesnít change value when I rev the car. Also my O2 ready says it is lean by 5.5 percent. I went increases the entire fuel map by 5 percent and it does the same thing. To me the car smells rich at idle. I can the pulse width from 1.80 to 3 and the value for the correction stays the same.

The car does start and idle and will rev somewhat, however I really canít tell what the motor is doing with the O2s not working. I checked how to test them and you tube said to heat them up and check the voltage.

So it looks like I need to get a wideband and use that for my setup. It looks like 2 O2s would be about 80 bucks. A wide band is 200.

I will do some checking on the voltages tomorrow evening. I have hooked up the stock stuff and the car works fine. I also exchanged the MAP sensor because it didnít drop voltage when it had vacuum.

My wiring harness is looking pretty bad. it is very brittle and nasty. I may need to do something else soon.

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I donít know what else to do:

It seems either my TPS works or the MAP works (a little) but never both. The system has a view screen to view the sensors. The MAP pressure doesnít change value when I rev the car. Also my O2 ready says it is lean by 5.5 percent. I went increases the entire fuel map by 5 percent and it does the same thing. To me the car smells rich at idle. I can the pulse width from 1.80 to 3 and the value for the correction stays the same.

The car does start and idle and will rev somewhat, however I really canít tell what the motor is doing with the O2s not working. I checked how to test them and you tube said to heat them up and check the voltage.

So it looks like I need to get a wideband and use that for my setup. It looks like 2 O2s would be about 80 bucks. A wide band is 200.

I will do some checking on the voltages tomorrow evening. I have hooked up the stock stuff and the car works fine. I also exchanged the MAP sensor because it didnít drop voltage when it had vacuum.

My wiring harness is looking pretty bad. it is very brittle and nasty. I may need to do something else soon.
Im going to assume a proper vacuum signal is connected.

MAP signal not moving as displayed by the datastream may indicate a wiring issue. 3 leads going to the MAP, check which pins on the wiring schematic you have. you should have a +5v constant lead, +5v reference lead(signal return to ECM), and ground. the ground needs to be returned to the system ground pin on the ECM to prevent cross signaling, but can be redundant with TPS.

im pretty sure this system was initially designed to be a direct replacment for F body cars from 86 to 89 with the 165 ecm. it should be mostly plug and play, only issue would be to repin and rewire the original MAF circuit to be converted to the MAP sensor. local boneyards may have these TPI f bodys or ebay may be the next alternative. HTH

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post #21 of 37 Old 02-17-2013, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 34blazer View Post
Im going to assume a proper vacuum signal is connected.

MAP signal not moving as displayed by the datastream may indicate a wiring issue. 3 leads going to the MAP, check which pins on the wiring schematic you have. you should have a +5v constant lead, +5v reference lead(signal return to ECM), and ground. the ground needs to be returned to the system ground pin on the ECM to prevent cross signaling, but can be redundant with TPS.

im pretty sure this system was initially designed to be a direct replacment for F body cars from 86 to 89 with the 165 ecm. it should be mostly plug and play, only issue would be to repin and rewire the original MAF circuit to be converted to the MAP sensor. local boneyards may have these TPI f bodys or ebay may be the next alternative. HTH
Yup good vacuum signal is there. My car was a speed density engine so it had a factory MAP sensor. All I had to is put the 5 volt input into terminal C, Pin A is ground and pin B is the output.

The MAF sensor setup ran different pins on the ECM They have a BAR sensor instead of a MAP. Looking at the modifications to convert my car to MAF doesnít mention changing anything with the MAP or BAR sensor.

The kit I purchased came with a harness to let it work with an A9L mustang harness. Looking at the differences (in the ECU EEC 4 pinouts) it is emissions things and the ground, Signal and voltage for the MAF. The book has a box pinout and MAP or emissions are not on there.

I took some reading off the TPS, IAC and the MAP sensor when I had the stock ECU in there. Tomorrow I will take the same reading with the Accel in its place. I will insure that the 5 volts going to the TPS and MAP are in the correct place and the Signal Return is in the correct place. The GM MAP sensor is the only one I have to wire for and I built a weather pack harness swapping the wires around as per the instructions

We will see what happens tommarow

84K 88 LX Vert 5spd: 3.73s.
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post #22 of 37 Old 02-17-2013, 11:22 PM
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just out of curiousity, on the connectors the plug into the ECM itself, which pins are the MAP wires? the large 28 pin connector should be C and D, the smaller 24 pin connector should be A and B.

also, the BAR sensor is usually a 1 BAR MAP sensor, usually disconnected from vacuum signal, from what i have seen. ECM uses that for initial key-on and pseudo baro reads(iirc) for fuel calcs.

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post #23 of 37 Old 02-18-2013, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=34blazer;11300167]just out of curiousity, on the connectors the plug into the ECM itself, which pins are the MAP wires? the large 28 pin connector should be C and D, the smaller 24 pin connector should be A and B.

also, the BAR sensor is usually a 1 BAR MAP sensor, usually disconnected from vacuum signal, from what i have seen. ECM uses that for initial key-on and pseudo baro reads(iirc) for fuel calcs.[/QUOTE

OMG that was the decode i needed. i couldnt figure out what the book was talking about.
MAP A is D3
MAP B is C3
MAP C is D6

I assumed the MAP sesnor was a MAP sensor and needed vac. I am running speed density. If i ran as ALpha N it would be a BAR sensor (no vac). I think, I could be wrong.

I have a short in the MAP wiring somewhere (not in the Pigtail I made).
IF i plug A MAP sensor in (I have 3 of them now) the TPS signal voltage and the MAP signal voltage drop to 1.5.

When i plugged in the Sensor i heard a weird click from a relay but the stock air filter assembly. After unplugging it, i figured out why, the wiring had no insulation around the connector for 1 inch and one of the wires did not have any for about 6 inches. Looking at a wiring diagram i figured out it was for ma AC. I wonder if that is why my AC stopped working?

The problem still exists after i clipped the wires on the bad connector.
I have double checked the wiring for the MAP sensor
PIN A is Ground
Pin B is Output
Pin C is 5 volt

When it is not hooked up i have the 5 volts on the supply line on both the TPS and the MAP green wires. When the car is running without the map lugged in all my sensors under the view screen work and are accurate. With it plugged in and running my temp sensor and air inlet temp is off.

looks like i will be wire tracing tommarow. Anyone have a speed denisty harness they want to give away lol !

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post #24 of 37 Old 02-18-2013, 10:42 PM
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well your pinout definitley doesnt match the '165 ECM pinouts. only thing i can suggest it use the same +5v redundant source from the other sensors, then disconnect the reference(or signal) wire and turn the ignition on. see if the voltage drops on the other circuits, if not rinse and repeat with the ground. you may want to contact accel directly and see if they can get you a pinout from the ECM.

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post #25 of 37 Old 02-19-2013, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Well I have some good news:
I was able to Modify my MAP sensor harness with a built in testpoint for each line. This was a harness i had built orignally but I was having trouble getting voltage with the MAP sensor in place. This will let me have the map sensor hooked up and test it on the car or on the bench. We have varible dc power supplies at work. I was able to supply 5 volts to the input and ground. with no vacuum i had 4.6 volts for the output. When vacuum was applied the voltage dropped. I think this means my MAP is ok. If this is wrong< I hope someone says something. All the splices in that harness are soldered and have heat shrink around them with some ninja weather proof tape around the heat shrink


I contacted Dan White of White Racing and Marine Contact Information in Warren, Michigan. The guy I talked to was very nice and explained there was a big problem with hooking up the MAP sensor's ground and power backwards. It would damage a part in the ECU. They still service them. I asked him about the harness being in all yellow and he saifd then it wasn't one of his. Oh well that is odd. lol

I opened up the case of the ECU this morning and noticed one of the resistors was smoked. I wonder if this is what was wrong with it, since i did have the map sesnor wired wrong when i started this. Look at 2 over to the left from the Blue one

These are pictures of the ac harness that was pretty rotted. on the pic with the connector to the left you see all the wires are bar going into the connector.



we will see what happens next

84K 88 LX Vert 5spd: 3.73s.

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post #26 of 37 Old 02-19-2013, 03:53 PM
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since you have that ECM opened up, what processor does it have? should be a motorola 68hc11?

id trace that circuit to make sure it is the MAP signal circuit. im still a beginner with this stuff but the resistor is used for the A/D conversion before it is sent into the A/D converter in the processor, as counts.

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post #27 of 37 Old 02-23-2013, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Well people I am at a cross-roads:
Either I have damaged something inside the Gen 6 ECU from hooking the MAP sensor wrong or I have a problem inside my factory injection harness.
Here is the issue:

When the MAP sensor is unplugged the TPS has 5 volts going to it. When I hook u the 5 volt and return wire from the MAP sensor I have 5 volts to everything the return to the ECU is 4.6 volts. When I hook up the ground to the MAP sensor all the voltages drop to 1.5 volts on the TPS and MAP.

I Talked to White Racing and they said they did not have a schematic but would try to fix it. He was aware of the issue with hooking up the map backwards and said it was a power supply. I took the unit apart and found a resistor that was smoked. I replaced the resistor and it did not fix the issue. I think by power supply he meant rectifier. There are 5 of them in the unit. They are like 2 bucks per.

The issues are nothing else looks damaged in the unit. It is a pain to pull them out of the circuit and replace them. I don’t even know if there is a way to test one to prove it is the culprit.

White Racing’s shop time is 80 an hour (that is normal), I am sure I would get charged at least an hour shop time for a repair. If you add that and the 170 for the IAC, I have 250 more into this system.
Seems like my good deal is wearing thin.

If my harness is the issue that may resent another challenge. A brand new speed density harness is located in Atlantis guarded by Jimmy Haffa. Finding a used one has begun as a backup plan. Locating another Gen 6 unit has begun also to figure out what is the better option.

My factory harness’s loom is very brittle and melted in spots, the wiring inside is very hard in spots. Maybe a new harness would be a wise choice.

The factory computer and MAP sensor work fine when I put them back in the car. It seems like I have become an expert and swapping them back out.

Option A:
Keep on trucking with this system. I know the callmap software; I had the car idling well. If I had the MAP sensor working I could finish tuning it (after getting a wideband).After spending another 250 on this I would have 600 into this. Not bad, since it came with a laptop. If I got a harness is good shape for 100 bucks I would have 700 into it.

Advantages:
1) cheapest overall option, unless labor gets to be 2 hours or something
2) software is simple to use
3) This system will do nearly everything a new one will and fits my needs perfect.
Disadvantages
1) If something happens again I am in the same boat.
2) Win 98 laptops are getting more scarce (callmap runs in DOS)

Option B:
Ditch it. Cut my loses now before I spend anymore money on an old system. If I get a new system I would get a Megaquirt. I don’t think I would get a PNP I like the ms3x. At the same time I could Build my own harness using their cable and new pig tails from RJM If I did this I think I would have about 1000 into it (I am not sure what wiring harness to get on their site, I am assuming I need both.

Advantages
1) I would have a supported ECU I could get serviced if I needed
2) Fully sequential injection and a ton of other features I want but don’t need
3) Tuning software would run in windows
4) All ford sensors
5) Injection harness would be simple and not have emissions stuff that isn’t run

Disadvantages
1) Total cost would be about 300 more.
2) Wiring up an injection harness sounds easier than it is
3) The MS3X may not fit where the stock ECU did


What are your opinions?

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post #28 of 37 Old 02-23-2013, 11:53 PM
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something is wrong with the wiring, if ECM is supplying 5v to those circuits, consider isolating them for diagnostics. seems like a bad ground in the factory harness is causing the 5v to short to the signal wire of the tps, or map.

also, if you want to get creative on the cheap, save that adapter harness and run a GM ECM, like the 7165 with 12P, lots of support for that over at delcohacking.net. you would need an ALDL from a boneyard OBD1 car if you dont have that already, everything else is plug n play. or a 7730 swap.

are you using the TFI ignition?

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'86 Grand National- LZ9 swap in progress, built 2004R, ???turbo, Alky

Last edited by 34blazer; 02-23-2013 at 11:57 PM.
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post #29 of 37 Old 02-24-2013, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 34blazer View Post
something is wrong with the wiring, if ECM is supplying 5v to those circuits, consider isolating them for diagnostics. seems like a bad ground in the factory harness is causing the 5v to short to the signal wire of the tps, or map.

also, if you want to get creative on the cheap, save that adapter harness and run a GM ECM, like the 7165 with 12P, lots of support for that over at delcohacking.net. you would need an ALDL from a boneyard OBD1 car if you dont have that already, everything else is plug n play. or a 7730 swap.

are you using the TFI ignition?
I will send you an email in a few minutes.

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post #30 of 37 Old 03-02-2013, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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here is an email i got From White racing after they examined the unit. i am glad i got an email from another corral member who was willing to sell their accel gen 6 ecu

NFG – the power supply puts out 5 volts now but never makes it to the header. The print out you have is Pins C15 and D5 for 5 volts. That is some kind of mistake first of all. The 5 volts is supposed to go to Pins D5 and D6 but neither have any voltage at all. My guess is that there is damage to one of the foil layers and the current does not get routed to the output pins. Likely the same thing that fried the resistor burned up the foil layer. I don’t think there are any other devices between the 5 volt power supply and the header. There would be no reason to put any device there except a cap to control noise and if the cap shorts then the 5 volt supply is down. The 5 volt supply tests no connection between the supply and the (2) output terminals.



Pin C15 traces to the Injector driver and is NOT 5 volts. I don’t know where you got this pin-out but many things are wrong. Without a schematic there is not much I can do except keep fishing and that might take all day. If the foil is fried in the second layer where I can’t see it then I wouldn’t have any way to fix it.



Without the 5 volts nothing is going to work.



To recap – the 5 volt supply now works but the voltage is no longer getting to the output to get distributed to the TPS – MAP and etc.



Dan White

White Racing & Marine

12820 E. Nine Mile Road

Warren, Michigan 48089

White Racing Marine - *** NEW FOR 2009 -- E85 Systems for BIG HP INCREASE without Race Fuel *** - We are Your #1 Choice for Electronic Fuel Injection for Drag Racing. The finest aftermarket EFI Systems and Support money can buy. On Line assistance wi

(586) 756-3026 Shop (586) 756-8350 (Fax)



i still don't understand how it could be that messed up but the car idled. i just didn't get any map readings. lol

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post #31 of 37 Old 03-02-2013, 08:21 PM
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so you have a replacement already? thats good. depending on the hardware and calibration, the ECU could operate the engine enough to limp home. in your case I would guess that a default "key-on" value was used to locate where TPS and MAP value would be. so the engine would idle but not rev since ECU had no idea if TPS or MAP was moving, timing would be locked at whatever cell(key-on) and the same for the fuel table.

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post #32 of 37 Old 03-08-2013, 04:47 PM
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any updates?

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post #33 of 37 Old 03-08-2013, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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well funny you should ask:

I got the replacement ECU on Monday . I installed it in the car turned the key and the fuel pump did not prime. I can read the ECU and it seems to be working. This unit does not have the extra wires in it like my orignal one does. It is a completly different part number so that is what i expected. Shot in the dark.

I got the other unit back from White Racing tonight. Hooked it up and I have the same issue. I messed around with the wires and nothing helped. point of intrest i hook the ford ma sensor up and the voltages stay correct.

My brother in Law was nice and came out to the garage to help me. We unhooked the computer and did some ohming out. everything sensor wise except there was 2 hots going to the map sensor 5 volt source somehow. we cliped the extra wire to c15 and have the same issue. this is a very summerized version we spend 2 hours doing different things

we hooked up the computer that didn't prime the fuel pump. it still didn't prime the pump but all the voltages are correct when everything is hooked up.

i think i have 2 ecus with 2 different problems. i think if i can figure out where to put the fuel pump relayshould be accel ping d11 and (ford pin 22) i may be good to go.

I just wish i had the curcuit information on the board. it makes it really hard

i am not sure what i will do tommarow but i am running low on ideas. I iwsh someone familar with these lived closer and could help me

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post #34 of 37 Old 03-09-2013, 12:34 AM
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Hey mike can you post the part numbers of both ecu's ill try to do some research on this to help if I can.
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post #35 of 37 Old 03-11-2013, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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well I am done beating this dead horse unless someone has some bright ideas that doesn't involve gas and matches:

Between Friday, Sturday and Sunday I spend about 10 hours working on this. I must have about 30 hours into it. I am pretty sure my car's factory wiring is fine. I am pretty sure the accel harness is fine. I found that there was a common ground from the map, tps and egr ground to the ford pin 30. I think that is the neutral saftey switch. Clipped that wire and nothing same issue.

here is a pic of the adapter harness.I have gotten gotten several PMs asking about it. it connects the accel pinouts to the ford 60 pin.



I installed the ECU I bought as a replacement. It did not prime the fuel pump but all voltages where correct when i hooked up all the sensors.
here is a pic of the label with the part number


Here is a pic of the orignal one. Notice the hard written part number.
I talked to a shop that still supports accel ECUs and he said that there were some shops that customized the units and he thought since myne had a hard wrote number that it was customized.


Here is a pic of the 2 ECUs side by side. The orignal is on the right. Notice the extra wires. Makes me wonder if it was custom or repaired.


lastly here is the pins outs on the ecu


This has been a very big learning experience for me. I am now very familar with all the sensors in the car and what the voltages should be. If i don't have any more ideas, I will purchase a megasquirt system. Not sure what one, I like the idea of a PNP (because of the size) but i would like all the extras of the ms3x (mainly fully seq injection)

Thanks for all the help and ideas. I guess it is a lesson learned. I am not blaming the sellers for selling something that was broken. I could have damaged it, or it could have been damaged in shipping

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