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post #1 of 14 Old 12-23-2011, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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331 speed density

I am going to pick up a 331 today and wanting to know my options for engine management. my car is an 88 still with speed density. I am interested in having it dyno tuned if they can use the speed density computer. if possible I would rather spend the money on a tune than on a new computer and meter.
Let me know what u guys think, thanks


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post #2 of 14 Old 12-23-2011, 09:35 AM
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The ability to tune a SD computer will depend on the camshaft selection. You also have to understand that a stock SD computer will most likely need the VE table values increased due to a better flowing combination, heads, exhaust, intake, tb, etc....... If it isn't too wild this could be done by just increasing the global multiplier for the VE tables. WOT would be easy to tune, and I'm sure adaptives could keep the closed loop operation in check. The camshaft will have to be SD friendly. The LSA needs to be 114ยบ or higher, and the duration really should be kept under 220ยบ on the intake and 224 on the exhaust.


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post #3 of 14 Old 12-25-2011, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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I hoped a dyno tune would just reprogram the computer. So with an x cam I have to convert it to mass air whether I tune it or not?

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post #4 of 14 Old 12-25-2011, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by frank88gt View Post
I hoped a dyno tune would just reprogram the computer. So with an x cam I have to convert it to mass air whether I tune it or not?
A tune should fix it, but call your tuner to make sure he can tune SD. BE2010 will tune a SD, but it can't datalog and the tune tables are about 1/3 of what is available for MAF ECMs. Trying to tune a VE table without a datalog will take some serious time. Paying the guy by the hour for that, you may find it cheaper to get a A9L and a Lightning MAF and have a tune with that.

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post #5 of 14 Old 12-25-2011, 06:20 PM
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can run a pretty aggressive cam on the SD if there is an ability to tune it. LSA doesnt have to be more than 114* and less than 220* duration. usually with a cam swap the VE in lower cells will be reduced and the upper cells will be increased. its probably better to tune in open loop to get the VE tables close, and tune when engine is comepletly warmed up.

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post #6 of 14 Old 12-28-2011, 04:42 PM
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I use BE and a moates QH to datalog my SD truck and it works flawless. The complerte strategy file gives me access to everything. Good luck getting a cam with lwss than 114ยบ LSA to idle correctly with SD. Can it be done, probalby so. Will it take a looonnnggggg time to get right? Yep and cost way more in tuning time than you want to spend.

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post #7 of 14 Old 12-28-2011, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Diabolic View Post
I use BE and a moates QH to datalog my SD truck and it works flawless. The complerte strategy file gives me access to everything. Good luck getting a cam with lwss than 114ยบ LSA to idle correctly with SD. Can it be done, probalby so. Will it take a looonnnggggg time to get right? Yep and cost way more in tuning time than you want to spend.
meh, just added 5-6* of timing to the rpm error tables and idle settled right in

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post #8 of 14 Old 12-28-2011, 11:50 PM
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I wish it were that easy. Now a small 208-212 duration cam might get away with 112 LSA but no amount of timing will get the vacuum at idle back up to 18". Not with a duration of 220 or more. It would need to be forced into open loop and tuned with a vacuum gauge. Idle spied raised, plus more timing. Even then I'll bet it will surge on deceleration. The VE tables will need reconfiguring as well. Lots of tome and $$$$

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post #9 of 14 Old 12-29-2011, 11:46 AM
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I wish it were that easy. Now a small 208-212 duration cam might get away with 112 LSA but no amount of timing will get the vacuum at idle back up to 18". Not with a duration of 220 or more. It would need to be forced into open loop and tuned with a vacuum gauge. Idle spied raised, plus more timing. Even then I'll bet it will surge on deceleration. The VE tables will need reconfiguring as well. Lots of tome and $$$$
not that im trying to argue with you....

i have very little side effects with my cam and topend set up, pulls 12" at idle(800rpms), doesnt surge on decel either even when i turn DFCO off no surge. my knowlege is limited but as time goes on i figure out how to curve the side effects. only reason i force open loop is to mainly use the VE tables, and i use a WBO2. ill go on a long drive to populate my history tables and make adjustments. i wont touch the timing until the VE table is close, or i see knock in a certain cell. my ecm uses timing to control idle, and the stepper IAC stays static unless the Efan kicks on or it anticipates power steering cramp. my other car has a soild cam on a 112* LSA with 240* duration @ .050, only real tuning it needed was in the VE tables, bumped up the timing tables globally and added some PE fuel and timing. once i figured out how to tune i spent a couple of days.

my question is, why does it have to pull 18" and further more how are you spending lots of $$$$ to tune it? dyno tuning?

please dont get me wrong, you know what you are doing, im still learning

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post #10 of 14 Old 12-29-2011, 03:08 PM
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not that im trying to argue with you....

i have very little side effects with my cam and topend set up, pulls 12" at idle(800rpms), doesnt surge on decel either even when i turn DFCO off no surge. my knowlege is limited but as time goes on i figure out how to curve the side effects. only reason i force open loop is to mainly use the VE tables, and i use a WBO2. ill go on a long drive to populate my history tables and make adjustments. i wont touch the timing until the VE table is close, or i see knock in a certain cell. my ecm uses timing to control idle, and the stepper IAC stays static unless the Efan kicks on or it anticipates power steering cramp. my other car has a soild cam on a 112* LSA with 240* duration @ .050, only real tuning it needed was in the VE tables, bumped up the timing tables globally and added some PE fuel and timing. once i figured out how to tune i spent a couple of days.

my question is, why does it have to pull 18" and further more how are you spending lots of $$$$ to tune it? dyno tuning?

please dont get me wrong, you know what you are doing, im still learning
The OP asked about doing a 331 with the stock speed density. Most shops won't tune factory speed density cars and if they do it's simply wot AFR and timing. They don't tune it in a parking lot with the ac on and the ps dragging it down. My whole point was that to get a tuner to burn a chip the right way is going to take a lot longer than most people would want to spend on a dyno. He obviously doesn't tune himself or he would have not mentioned a dyno tune in 2 posts. It takes time to dial in a VE table on the street or on the dyno. Larger injectors only make matters worse. Not something a novice tuner would want tackle and it would be a heck of a lot cheaper to just convert to MAF. If he were to keep the cam under 220ยบ duration and the LSA at 114-115ยบ then he could have a tuner do his magic for wot on the dyno and let adaptive learning in closed loop do the rest. A camshaft with more duration and tighter LSA will most likely take more correction than adaptive learning can provide. Not only that but when warming up it will most likely surge. When the ecm cannot bring the car back in range during closed loop it will revert back to open loop and with less than accurate VE table setings the car will run like crap.


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post #11 of 14 Old 12-31-2011, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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ok thanks. I am looking for everyday drivability and the most power out of my combo. I have no tuning experience though.
so should I get ready to convert to mass air and call the place I had in mind to ask about the meter?

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post #12 of 14 Old 12-31-2011, 10:51 PM
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34blazer, are you using a Ford EEC IV SD computer? If not, your advice is not relevant to this case.

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Last edited by Goody_Seven; 12-31-2011 at 10:54 PM.
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-01-2012, 04:38 AM
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34blazer, are you using a Ford EEC IV SD computer? If not, your advice is not relevant to this case.
right, gotcha, personna non grata.......

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post #14 of 14 Old 01-04-2012, 03:04 PM
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ok thanks. I am looking for everyday drivability and the most power out of my combo. I have no tuning experience though.
so should I get ready to convert to mass air and call the place I had in mind to ask about the meter?
Depends on the camshaft selection.

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