Battery relocation - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 01-18-2004, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Battery relocation

I used Buffhomers page to help me, but I still have some questions.

1. How do I supply power to the rest of my accessories? I bought a distribution block and hooked up all the lose wires, but do I run a wire from the starter selenoid to the distribution block to give it power?

2. How come theres no fuse coming off the battery? If theres a short, its gonna burn up alot of stuff.


-Rich
1994 Ford Mustang GT vert
2001 Ford F250
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post #2 of 13 Old 01-18-2004, 11:07 AM
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go to www.madelectrical.com and see his solutions. He's a little pricy on his relays, but he has some good info. I use Buffhomers' solution, but I'm converting to a different system, because I don't like the idea of a always hot unprotected 1/0 gauge all the way from the batt to the front mounted starter solenoid. My new system will use a 1/0 cable from a rear mounted starter solenoid to the starter, and a fuse protected 6 gauge main power wire from the batt, to a front mounted distribution block . With my new system, the 1/0 cable from the solenoid to the starter will be electrically dead, except when starting the car. A much safer solution. I have a schematic, (sort of) from MAD electric, but my scanner's broken and I can't post it.


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post #3 of 13 Old 01-18-2004, 11:08 PM
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just to clear it up for myself, you are talking of moving the selonoid to the rear correct?

Just out of curiosity, what did you do with the little wire, not the battery wire, that grounds to the negative battery terminal?

I've seen it done a couple different ways, just wonder what you guys did.

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post #4 of 13 Old 01-18-2004, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Untchbl
just to clear it up for myself, you are talking of moving the selonoid to the rear correct?

Just out of curiosity, what did you do with the little wire, not the battery wire, that grounds to the negative battery terminal?

I've seen it done a couple different ways, just wonder what you guys did.
I'm moving the starter solenoid to the rear, the always hot un fused cable from the battery to the solenoid will only be about a foot long.

I have a 2 ga ground cable that runs from the right side of the engine, to the neg battery post. I also have a 4 gauge from the original engine block ground to the left sway bar mount. I did away with the small ground wire you are referring to. that ground just connects the car body to the neg batt post. I have my MSD grounded with a 10 ga wire directly to the neg post on the batt. I have a ground at the rear of the chassis, where I connected grounds for the fuel pumps and stereo amps. The reason I did it this way was to prevent RFI, from having multiple grounding points on the bodyand chassis. Almost all the grounds terminate at the neg battery post.

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post #5 of 13 Old 01-19-2004, 01:10 AM
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Istead of a distrobution block I just hooked all those wires up to the hot side of my starter solenoide where it comes from teh battery. To use the block just run a wire from teh constant hot on the solenoid to the distro block. If you want you can instal fuses right after the battery and right before the solenoid for protection this is over kill though. Just put a fuse in the back at the battery. A 175 amp breaker froma stero shop would work nicely. ( I always use these, if they blow you just reset them, after find the short of course) CHeck out teh madelectric link posted above as well for more ideas

Mark Thompson PSCA Mustang Maddness 37

84 Mustang GT, 408 super Vic intake, high port heads, pro system 1000cfm carb, inductions solutions sledge hammer nitrous system, glide. Full TeamZ suspension.
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post #6 of 13 Old 01-19-2004, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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What about this idea?

From the battery, to the cutoff switch, then up to a distrobution block. From there it splits, 1 wire to the starter relay, then off to the starter. The other wire goes to the alternator.



Sorry for the crappy drawing.......Im just trying to run as little wires from the back up front as possible.

I think it will work, am I right?

-Rich
1994 Ford Mustang GT vert
2001 Ford F250
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post #7 of 13 Old 01-19-2004, 10:48 PM
 
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That "picture" is not track legal. Flip the switch and it will continue to run.
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post #8 of 13 Old 01-19-2004, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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Ahhh, I overlooked that, good thinking!

-Rich
1994 Ford Mustang GT vert
2001 Ford F250
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post #9 of 13 Old 01-20-2004, 06:21 PM
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I wired my system with help from Mark at MAD. Mark is an absolutely great guy. He's been doing this stuff for a long time and has written articles that have been in MM&FF as well as 5.0.
The drawing you made is almost correct. Your car will not be track legal, although it will function.
What needs to be done is the alternator needs to be isolated from the cars electronics. If you crash and the safety crew flip your switch and your car will continue to run with the alternator supplying power to the ignitinon system through the junction block that you have all your wires attached to. You need to let the switched side of your cuttoff switch running to your distribution block also control the switch portion of a power relay. The power (load) side of the relay will power your ignition sytem. You can also add relays for the fuel pump, etc. This way when the cuttoff switch is interrupted, it will shut down power to the relays that control your ignition sytsem. It's a bit of extra wiring, but one benefit is when doing this, you can use as many relays as you want to control as many accessories as you want. Mark recommended to me that I also Isolate the headlights and anything that draws a significant amount of current with relays. Apparently the factory wiring at least on fox bodies routes the current through the switch for the headlights. This can be a possible fix if you are experiencing flickering headlights.
Mark sent me some diagrams along with my wiring years back. I will scan them tomorrow and post a pic of them. I think it will really help some people out with wiring their systems correctly.
Some of what I said may be incomplete and confusing, so if you can wait, I'll have the diagrams up tomorrow and we can discuss it further to help you along. Even the diagrams are tricky if you're a beginner with wiring.

Paul

Paul
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DSS 347, AFR 185's, Victor 5.0 Intake, N-91 (hydraulic), 80mm ProM, 75mm TB, 30lb injectors, 255 Liter Fuel Pump, 1.6 Rocker Arms, 1 3/4 LTubes, 4.10s, 15x10.0" ET Drag
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post #10 of 13 Old 01-21-2004, 05:35 PM
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Well i know I for one will be waiting for the diagrams. Im always up for learnign new ways to do stuff. what works one day on one car may not work the best way tomorrow on another car.


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84 Mustang GT, 408 super Vic intake, high port heads, pro system 1000cfm carb, inductions solutions sledge hammer nitrous system, glide. Full TeamZ suspension.
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post #11 of 13 Old 01-21-2004, 07:14 PM
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Here are the diagrams, courtesy of Mark at MAD Enterprises. The first diagram is cleaner and easier to follow, but doesn't have as much detail as far as relays and such. The second diagram is harder to read but gives you a better idea on how to wire the relays and feed accessories from them. There are some differences between the two diagrams which may at first seem confusing. If you understand wiring and how relays and fusible links work, you should be able to come up with your own scheme of how to wire "your" system. Everyones system may have different needs. For instance, with an 8 gauge wire running from the cutoff switch to the front of the car, you could run into problems if you sit with your car off and have big current draw from say a large stereo system, cooling fan (especially the Mark8), electric water pump, headlights, foglights, etc. I myself use this settup, and can run the Mark8 fan and small radio and headlights fine with an 8 gauge wire.
I'm not a pro with ignition systems and what wires exactly to run off of relays to make the system work properly. Notice in diagram 1 how the wire coming from the cutoff switch feeds the distribution block up front. From the distribution block, you can run power to the switch side of a relay which powers the ignition system. In this instance, when power is cut to the car the ignition system will be disabled, but power to the alternator will not be. This is the proper way to kill power to the car. It avoids and chance of a voltage spike ruining your computer or other delicate electronics. This can happen if power is immediately cut off from an alternator.
One more thing that confuses the wiring is the newer high torque starter. It's sort of hard to explain, but I have a diagram for this also. I need to scan it still so tomorrow I will post that one also.
I am in the process of making my rear mount battery perfectly legal and safe for the vehicles electronics and alternator. It takes a lot of time and some thinking as there are a lot of wires involved. I will be running anything that draws a fair amount of current off of relays and everything is going to be hidden out of site. Here's is the beginning of the project. Well sort of, the battery is in the trunk housed in a aluminum Summit box. The starter relay and cutoff switch are mounted in the box also for a clean installation.


Diagrams were deletd out of respect for Mark at madelectrical.com
They are his work and he is not comfortable with people trying to wire their cars based on these diagrams. Too much room for error and I udnerstand he does not want to be liable for any accidents if the shuttoff switch doesn't work as planned.
Check out his website and call him. If you want, he will send you the diagrams and explain things to you. He'd rather have the chance to talk to you personally and go over your particular settup.

Paul
Red 89' 25th Anniversary LX
DSS 347, AFR 185's, Victor 5.0 Intake, N-91 (hydraulic), 80mm ProM, 75mm TB, 30lb injectors, 255 Liter Fuel Pump, 1.6 Rocker Arms, 1 3/4 LTubes, 4.10s, 15x10.0" ET Drag
ET's --> [email protected] w/1.50 60ft

Last edited by Deepstage; 01-30-2004 at 05:22 PM.
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post #12 of 13 Old 01-21-2004, 07:23 PM
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Red face

ok the pics worked above finally

Paul
Red 89' 25th Anniversary LX
DSS 347, AFR 185's, Victor 5.0 Intake, N-91 (hydraulic), 80mm ProM, 75mm TB, 30lb injectors, 255 Liter Fuel Pump, 1.6 Rocker Arms, 1 3/4 LTubes, 4.10s, 15x10.0" ET Drag
ET's --> [email protected] w/1.50 60ft

Last edited by Deepstage; 01-21-2004 at 08:03 PM.
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post #13 of 13 Old 01-21-2004, 09:04 PM
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very cool and very informative. It is very similar to what i do. I however don;t use relays at the moment or a power distribution block. I use my starter solenoide. It seems to work ok. I run my ignition and the poweer to the car on the switched side of the cut off switch so when the switch is flipped it kills power to the entire car as well as the ignition. It is simplier but I think I liek yoru idea better. See I do learn something every day

Mark Thompson PSCA Mustang Maddness 37

84 Mustang GT, 408 super Vic intake, high port heads, pro system 1000cfm carb, inductions solutions sledge hammer nitrous system, glide. Full TeamZ suspension.
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