Battery relocation problem - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 29 Old 07-16-2003, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Battery relocation problem

Alright, I wired everything according to this diagram:

http://buffhomer.corral.net/custom.html

I even have the 150 Amp inline fuse.

I connected the positive side of the battery, and than went to connect the negative side. When I did, the terminal sparked (normal) but my 150 amp fuse lit up, and popped. With both battery terminals connected, the car has zero power.

Help? I don't want to go and buy another 150 amp fuse until I know what went wrong.

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post #2 of 29 Old 07-16-2003, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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ttt


1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #3 of 29 Old 07-16-2003, 09:29 PM
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find the short, bro.

Is your switch shorting itself to the trunk? Watch where you wire the terminal, if you improperly install the switch (say hang the switch 'outside' the car and push the terminals through, you will short the hot wire right to the trunk.)

if you're blowing the fuse possibly there's a short up near the starter/alternator area. A voltmeter is pretty good at finding shorts, just keep the battery unplugged and test your wiring.

'93 LX coupe
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post #4 of 29 Old 07-16-2003, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, I'm kinda electronically illiterate. What's a short, and how do I use my voltmeter to find it?

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #5 of 29 Old 07-16-2003, 10:25 PM
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Are you absolutely positive you wired it correctly? Its very easy to miss a mistake. I would check everywhere that the wire is connected (solenoid. switch, ground, etc.) and also check any and all locations where the wires are going through sheetmetal. Also, you mind telling me how you hooked the wire to the alt. up? By this I mean what wires from the alt. did you splice into?

Ray
92 coupe
TFS stage 2 twisted wedge Heads.TFS track heat intake.Ultradyne Cam.#24 inj.190 lph fuel pump.70mm TB.75mm MAF.1 3/4 Long Tubes.hpipe.Flowmasters.1.6 roller rockers.C4 reverse pattern.3000 stall.3.73.electric fan. eibach springs.battery relocation.3g Alt.MSD 6AL.Autometer Phantom Guages.99 Brakes.95 Rear End.93 Cobra brake booster.99 Cobra Wheels.Eaton Posi.Moser 31 Spline Axles.GP CC Plates.Diamond Clears
Originally posted by TBG

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post #6 of 29 Old 07-16-2003, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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No, I used a 2 gauge from the cutoff switch, and attached it to the alternator. I left the orange black wire intact and attached, since it ran to the fuse box and the fuse box needed power.

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #7 of 29 Old 07-16-2003, 10:36 PM
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you need to cut the black/orange wires and splice those into the 2 guage running to the alternator so that the wires come off the plug, than go to that wire that goes to your cutoff switch

Ray
92 coupe
TFS stage 2 twisted wedge Heads.TFS track heat intake.Ultradyne Cam.#24 inj.190 lph fuel pump.70mm TB.75mm MAF.1 3/4 Long Tubes.hpipe.Flowmasters.1.6 roller rockers.C4 reverse pattern.3000 stall.3.73.electric fan. eibach springs.battery relocation.3g Alt.MSD 6AL.Autometer Phantom Guages.99 Brakes.95 Rear End.93 Cobra brake booster.99 Cobra Wheels.Eaton Posi.Moser 31 Spline Axles.GP CC Plates.Diamond Clears
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post #8 of 29 Old 07-17-2003, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
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I see what you're saying, but I don't see how it would be different from what I have set up. How would my setup cause that massive short?

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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Last edited by DarkMesa8; 07-17-2003 at 01:56 AM.
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post #9 of 29 Old 07-17-2003, 08:21 AM
 
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wire a 30 amp circuit breaker where the fuse blew,hook your battery up and start disconnecting,pulling fuses,after like 10minutes if you still haven't found it the wire shorting should be warm
pay special attention to the output wire between the alt and the fuse if you mounted your fuse holder check that too
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post #10 of 29 Old 07-17-2003, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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I think I may know what I did wrong.

The cutoff switch was connected to the alternator (2ga) which was connected to the fuse box (4ga) which was grounded AND connected to the starter solenoid which was connected to the cutoff switch.

It the alternator supposed to be connected to the cutoff switch and nothing else?

My 1995 GT stock alternator does NOT have two black and orange wires coming out of the top like everybody says! It only has a large 4gauge black wire with an orange stripe. Do I disconnect this and leave it, attaching the 2 gauge from the cutoff switch?


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1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #11 of 29 Old 07-17-2003, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkMesa8
I think I may know what I did wrong.

The cutoff switch was connected to the alternator (2ga) which was connected to the fuse box (4ga) which was grounded AND connected to the starter solenoid which was connected to the cutoff switch.

It the alternator supposed to be connected to the cutoff switch and nothing else?

My 1995 GT stock alternator does NOT have two black and orange wires coming out of the top like everybody says! It only has a large 4gauge black wire with an orange stripe. Do I disconnect this and leave it, attaching the 2 gauge from the cutoff switch?
YES. Disconnect at the alternator, cover it up, and that's IT. DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING FROM THE SOLENOID.

The alternator goes to the cutoff switch or battery (+) post, that's it. On your cutoff switch, you will have only the battery (+) and the alternator charge wire on one side, everything else will work off the other side of the switch. In a fox, that other side is a 1/O running back up to the solenoid. On your car, it runs up to the fuse box/starter solenoid/whatever.

It helps to say what year your car is. Everyone here thought you had a 3G upgrade for a Fox body.

Last edited by buffhomer; 07-17-2003 at 09:37 AM.
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post #12 of 29 Old 07-17-2003, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
It helps to say what year your car is. Everyone here thought you had a 3G upgrade for a Fox body.
Damn, sorry guys... I didn't think they were that different. I knew the alternators were rated different, but not the connections. Sorry!

I'm still curious as to whether or not I could have fried my alternator, the if the 150amp fuse saved it by blowing?
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post #13 of 29 Old 07-17-2003, 09:55 AM
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The alternator should be A-Ok. I've blown my 150amp fuse before and my 3G is still kickin'.

Click here to see how to wire a 3G into a Fox that came with a 2G. That will give you a little idea on the differences...namely the 2G has two plugs that house everything and the 3G has the stator wire separate and a single charging wire.

Last edited by buffhomer; 07-17-2003 at 09:58 AM.
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post #14 of 29 Old 07-18-2003, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Alright, I disconnected the wire from the alternator, and the fuse popped AGAIN!!!

Right now I'm pissed. Those fuses are $10 a piece. I'm very upset because it took me a whole day to get that fuse back in stock so I could buy it.

And guess what, the negative battery post melted to the terminal! I had to pull it off, and there's a nice indentation where the terminal was touching.

WTF is going on?

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #15 of 29 Old 07-18-2003, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
The cutoff switch was connected to the alternator (2ga) which was connected to the fuse box (4ga) which was grounded AND connected to the starter solenoid which was connected to the cutoff switch.
There's your problem. Why is there a ground there? All the power is going straight to ground.
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post #16 of 29 Old 07-18-2003, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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No, it was not grounded. I misfollowed the wires.

BUT, after I disconnected the 4ga from the alternator and covered it up, leaving only the 2ga on the alternator, the fuse STILL BLEW!!!

I tested the chassis of the car to the negative post and found 12 volts floating around. This is with the positive connected, the negative disconnected, and using a digital voltmeter from the negative cable to the negative battery terminal.

OK, so 12 volts automatically equals a short?

When I turn the kill switch off, the 12 volts stays there.

But, when I disconnect the alternator, the 12 volts goes away.

Would a short in the alternator cause the 150amp fuse to blow up?

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #17 of 29 Old 07-18-2003, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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The alternator is being rebuilt as I type. The man at the shop (whom I do trust) said that the alternator wasn't even charging at all.

Now, without the alternator, the digital multimeter reads 3 volts. (starts at 6, than dies down to 3). It three volts going to kill my 150amp fuse AGAIN, or kill my alternator AGAIN?

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #18 of 29 Old 07-19-2003, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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Damnit, when I reconnected the alternator, it read 12v again saying that the short was back.

I'm sooo lost and frustrated.

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #19 of 29 Old 07-19-2003, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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What if the starter solenoid were no longer connected to the fuse box? (94-95).

Could that cause a short, since the fuse box isn't recieving anything?

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1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #20 of 29 Old 07-19-2003, 05:41 PM
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you didnt undo the voltage regulator did you?
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post #21 of 29 Old 07-19-2003, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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No, voltage regulator is fine...

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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Last edited by DarkMesa8; 07-19-2003 at 09:32 PM.
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post #22 of 29 Old 07-19-2003, 11:59 PM
 
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Wiring

Try looking at the wiring to the stater. You problem is pretty obvious, you've got a hot wire going immediately to ground when you hook up the battery. Retrace all your steps and I'm sure you will find the problem.

Good Luck!
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post #23 of 29 Old 07-20-2003, 12:44 AM
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if its not too much work, go into paint and draw up a diagram of exactly how you have evrything wired. Thats how I got my wiring problem figured out once before
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post #24 of 29 Old 07-21-2003, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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Alright, how's this for finger pointing?

I had a friend hold the alternator suspended in the air (with the 2ga wire attached) and checked for the 12V short. It was gone.

I put the alternator back in its bracket, and the 12V short was back!

Than, I called up an acquaintance with a 95 GT. He came over, and I put his alternator in my car. No short!

This man I thought I could trust to rebuild my alternator is going to be paid a visit tomorrow morning. I'll be curtious at first, telling him to replace my diodes under his warranty, but I really hope he cooperates.

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #25 of 29 Old 07-21-2003, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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ARGH!!!

Diodes are now BRAND NEW. The short is STILL THERE!!!

I am beyond lost, its been a week since the battery install began. I need any suggestions that could help...

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #26 of 29 Old 07-21-2003, 01:08 PM
 
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Damn, if found the problem within the alternator, just replace the damn thing...
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post #27 of 29 Old 07-21-2003, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, I did some more testing. I read the DC between the negative cable and the negative battery terminal.

It reads 12Volts.

I disconnected the three main wires from the cutoff switch. (Alternator, Starter, Positive Battery Cable)

When all three were connected, 12 volts.

When all three were seperate, 0 Volts.

When Battery Cable touched the Alternator Cable, 12 volts.

When Battery Cable touched Start Cable, 12 volts.

When I held the Battery cable in my hand and touched the car, 12 volts.

When I touched Alternator to Starter (had to try it), 0 Volts.

WTF? Do I have two shorts now?

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #28 of 29 Old 07-22-2003, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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TMOSS pointed out to me on AIM that my body should not be able to short 12 Volts to the ground. When I hold the positive cable, and touch the car, it shorts 12 volts.

What could that mean?

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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post #29 of 29 Old 07-22-2003, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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BTW, my friend has a 4.0L Ranger. When we disconnected his battery to do some work there, I decided to take a reading between his negative battery cable and the battery terminal.

I got 13 volts, battery disconnected!!!

How come when he puts his battery cable back on, those 13 volts don't short his system?

1991 Grey Mustang LX Hatch
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4x4
1994 Suzuki GSX750F Katana


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