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post #1 of 28 Old 02-23-2016, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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Question Need wiring help

Hey Corral!

I have been stuck on this wiring issue for quite some time now and I am reaching out to anyone in the LA area (I live in North Hollywood) who can come by and help me out with a wiring problem.

Here is the basic rundown:
My car is a 1990 4 cylinder conversion. I swapped my engine and injector harness over and it plugged in and ran for a while. I had a wiring issue that required me to remove those harnesses (engine and injector) and replace them. I bought a harness from a member on here and got everything installed, with a few connectors that had no mate. I didn't see this as an issue because I had deleted items from my engine anyway so I just thought they went to those (airbag and such). It plugs up just fine except afterwards I found out that the harness I had was from a 91 I believe and I guess the wiring was all jacked around with from the dealer.
I now have an issue where the fuel pump wont prime and the OBD port won't read codes. Everything else works as far as I can tell. I jumped the fuel pump to make sure it still worked and it does and I even cranked up the car and it ran for about 3 seconds before shutting off (no fuel from the pump).

Basically I need someone who is good with wiring and can help me figure this out. Send me a PM if you can help and I can work around your schedule as I work from home. Thanks in advance and beers are on me.

Chris


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post #2 of 28 Old 02-23-2016, 07:47 PM
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there is really too little info on this, and sounds like unknown harness is being used.

you may consider, finding a entire harness out of a wreck that has not been messed with.

otherwise it will take quite a long time, to ensure the proper circuits are complete.


89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #3 of 28 Old 02-24-2016, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Indy,

Thanks for the reply. You are always on it with the electrical stuff. The harness is from a 91 and I'll I got is time with thing anyway, so it's no big deal to me, but it's your time I am concerned with. FWIW I don't think the harness is too far off as everything else pretty much works as far as I know. Maybe just a little tweaking her and there. I just need someone with the knowledge is all. Can you help?


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post #4 of 28 Old 02-24-2016, 12:16 PM
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I am in the process of rebuildling the harness in my 1989 for a wire tuck that involves making most of the harness run under the dash instead of through the engine compartment. I have become VERY familiar with the harness and routing by doing this, and I have one of the COMPLETE old school Chilton's Total AutoCare books to boot (these have the full 22 page wiring diagram for each individual model year). I have also removed my emissions wiring (because I don't need that crap!) not by cutting it out of the harness, but by unpinning it from the connectors one by one. I could put it all back if I had to.

It gets even better...even though I live in SC, I may be traveling to Los Angeles to work at the Chevron El Segundo refinery in the next week (waiting on my background check to go through.)

Let me know if you think I can help.
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post #5 of 28 Old 02-24-2016, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 306Guy View Post
Indy,

Thanks for the reply. You are always on it with the electrical stuff. The harness is from a 91 and I'll I got is time with thing anyway, so it's no big deal to me, but it's your time I am concerned with. FWIW I don't think the harness is too far off as everything else pretty much works as far as I know. Maybe just a little tweaking her and there. I just need someone with the knowledge is all. Can you help?


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going to be at a conference, next couple of days, so will not have much time to answer

but, list exactly what you know you have, and i'll have a look at compatibilty

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #6 of 28 Old 02-25-2016, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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@stu11926 - Wow! That's great and yes I would totally take you up on the offer. Good luck with the background check and let me know when you are in town and we can knock this out hopefully.

@indy2000 - Here is what I have:
1990 4 cylinder dash and body harness
1990/91 V8 Engine harness (it has the white plugs for the air bags)
1990/91 V8 Injector harness

Everything plugs up with the exception of the Air Bags as I deleted them and a few other random plugs, but otherwise it all plugs up. I can crank the car and when I jump the FP I can get it to start. I called the Ford Racing Tech line and spoke with the wiring guru there and he said to check the following:
- Check Pin 37 and 57 at the computer and make sure I had power with the key on, which I did.
- Check the pink/black wire at the FP relay for power, which I did not. Not even when the key is on.
- Check for power (2-3 seconds) at the FP relay (dark green/yellow wire) when the key is turned to the on position for the FP prime, which I had constant power.

I know it seems like the pink/black and green/yellow wires are crossed somewhere, but I don't see how that's possible because I didn't cut the harness or re-pin anything that goes to the FP. The only thing I can think of is a mismatched harness that I will have to re-pin.

Let me know if you need anything else and thanks for your help.

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post #7 of 28 Old 02-25-2016, 03:31 PM
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even if the plug connects, the pin arrangement has changed.

there are many changes over the years...

I don't believe the dash and engine harness, match up, from the 2.3 to 5.0 engines

like I said the plugs might be there but the PINS have to be in the correct places.

this is where you need diagrams of both harnesses.

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #8 of 28 Old 02-25-2016, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 306Guy;16876658

[MENTION=22216
indy2000 - Here is what I have:
1990 4 cylinder dash and body harness
1990/91 V8 Engine harness (it has the white plugs for the air bags)
1990/91 V8 Injector harness


- Check the pink/black wire at the FP relay for power, which I did not. Not even when the key is on.
- Check for power (2-3 seconds) at the FP relay (dark green/yellow wire) when the key is turned to the on position for the FP prime, which I had constant power.

I know it seems like the pink/black and green/yellow wires are crossed somewhere, but I don't see how that's possible because I didn't cut the harness or re-pin anything that goes to the FP. The only thing I can think of is a mismatched harness that I will have to re-pin.

Let me know if you need anything else and thanks for your help.
Looking at my wiring diagrams, I think you're on the right track here, but are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that you have a 1990 4 cyl body harness?

The diagram for 1990 only shows one set of wiring (for both 2.3L and 5.0L at the fuel pump relay. The wire colors are listed as T/LG, R/BK, PK/BK, PK/BK, and O/LB.

The diagram for 1991 shows different wiring at the fuel pump relay for the 2.3L and 5.0L, and they are definitely pinned differently.

The 2.3L has LB/O, R, DG/Y, and PK/BK.

The 5.0L has T/LG, R/BK, PK/BK, and O/Y. (I think...the print is VERY small on the 1991 diagram, and harder to read than the 89-90 versions.)
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post #9 of 28 Old 02-26-2016, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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The dash harness IS from a 1990 4 cylinder because that's what the car is and I didn't change that part of it.

The body harness worked with the 89 GT harness I had in the car before so I am not sure why it wouldn't work with the harness I have in there now.

I understand the pins may be off on a few things, but for them to be completely off would be pretty ####ty.

Here is a pic of my FP relay located under the drivers seat. The cut wire is actually reconnected, so no worries with that one.

Let me know what you think. Thanks.

ImageUploadedByAG Free1456522168.116290.jpg


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post #10 of 28 Old 02-27-2016, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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Also, when I chase the fuse link D (org/lt blue) which apparently powers the FP relay according to my diagram (even though that is not the color that I have on my relay) it leads to this box (under the steering column area), but that wire had no power and in fact only the red and gray/yellow wires have power. Any ideas. I also attached the wiring diagram I am using (Chilton - 89/90 5.0 engine).
ImageUploadedByAG Free1456556484.263838.jpgImageUploadedByAG Free1456556524.837725.jpg


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post #11 of 28 Old 02-27-2016, 10:27 AM
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89 and 90 harnesses are NOT the same pinned.

also the 89 and 90 fuel pump circuits are different

89 inertia switch breaks control wire,

90 breaks the load wire.

What is your plan to ID and correct these differences?

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #12 of 28 Old 02-27-2016, 12:02 PM
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Is it possible you are using a pre-'89 (or pre-88 for us CA guys, although even then they are diff from '89) wiring harness w/o a MAF and the MAF wires are spliced in wrong? I don't mean that to sound antagonistic, just trying to think of stuff but indy, while a douchebag, is usually right - have you ID'd the harness at all?

Also prob a long shot, but take the "salt and pepper shakers" behind the intake manifold and give them a good clean with electronics cleaner and use a small pin to spread the pins on the male side so they fit more securely in the female side, as well as making sure you have excellent grounding points everywhere from the engine to body and body to batt, and even engine to batt directly.

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post #13 of 28 Old 02-27-2016, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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I did the salt and pepper thing already and as far as ID'ing the harness I really wouldn't know where to start. Is there a tell-tell set of wires that would inform which harness I have? I can look for that. I did mention that this new engine harness had the white plug connectors for air bag I believe. Does that help?

The MAF wires were all there and stock, so I don't think that's the issue.

I do know that the dash is from the 90 2.3 engine because I kept it in the car with the swap. The guy that sold me the other wires (engine/injector) said they were from the same car, but I can't find his PM, so I'll go back through my stuff and see what I can find to help ID the harness.


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post #14 of 28 Old 02-27-2016, 05:24 PM
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post #15 of 28 Old 02-28-2016, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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Thank for the Veryuseful link. I have been using it, but still need help.


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post #16 of 28 Old 02-29-2016, 05:36 AM
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A 1991 computer harness will not plug into a 1990 dash harness as they are different connectors (87-90 use a gray AND black connector for dash connection, while 1991-93 uses a single redish brown connector)
Injector harnesses are the same from 86-93
Don't rule out a bad computer as well.
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post #17 of 28 Old 03-22-2016, 01:17 AM Thread Starter
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To clarify a few things:

1) Dash harness is a 90 4 cyl
2) Engine harness is 90 v8 (has the white plugs next to the MAF wiring)
3) Injector harness is 90 v8
4) Circuit (red wire from ECU relay to Inertia switch) is good and tested with a tone generator
5) Circuit (red/black wire from inertia switch to FP relay) is good and tested with a tone generator
6) FP Relay 12v source (green/yellow) is good with key on and off
7) FP relay red/black wire has 0v with key on and off
8) FP relay pink/black wire has 0v with key on and off
9) FP Relay tan/green wire has 0v with key on and off
10) When I jump the 12v (green/yellow) FP relay wire to the pink/black the FP primes
11) The ECU test plug (where you read the codes) does not work, probably because the tan/green wire has 0v
12) When I ground pin 22 at the ECU with the key on the FP primes
13) I replaced the FP relay and have the same issue
14) When I jump the wires at the FP relay I can start the car and it will run until I remove the jumper, then it will die out when the fuel is gone
15) Booster area connectors are gray and black, but in the gray plug there are 5 wires that go in and 8 that come out (or the other way around) and the black one also has something like that going on, I need to check.

OK. I think that's everything for now, dig in please and let me know what you got. Thanks guys!!

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post #18 of 28 Old 03-22-2016, 09:26 AM
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that does not clarify

best I see in my diagrams...........

can you tell me if your inertia switch is in series with the FP relay coil or the pump line/load

there was a change from '89 to '91

also your green/yellow hot all the time is a left over from the 2.3L,,,,,,,which makes no sense......

once you answer the inertia switch.......we can try to id the rest of the relay wires.


this will be a crap shoot.

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #19 of 28 Old 03-22-2016, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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A crap shoot is the best I got right now.

The inertia switch as far as I can tell is unlike with the FP relay. The red wire goes from the ECU relay to the inertia switch and the red/black goes from the inertia switch to the FP relay. Is that what you mean?

The 12v green/yellow that comes off the FP relay goes into the harness where the drivers side kick panel is and connects with the orange/light blue wire, which is the one that comes from the fuse link I guess.

Another thing is that there is this TRW box that is for the 4 cylinder AC fan controller and when I ground pin 22 (tan/green) it clicks. In fact whenever I turn the key to the run position it clicks. There is also the orange/light blue wire going to it as well as others.

Here are the colors and a pic.
Red/orange
Orange/black
Orange/lt blue
Black
Brown/white
Pink/lt blue
Gray/yellow
Black
ImageUploadedByAG Free1458665788.664514.jpg


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post #20 of 28 Old 03-22-2016, 07:19 PM
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cannot open that pic.

If that is the integrated control module, I suggest you stop

get the proper wiring diagram...I only have 89 and 91

only a few wires are making sense....

You do have the inertia switch on the control side, which is similar to the 89 not the 91, but you are missing the ecm ground side switch to energize the FP relay coil.?????

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #21 of 28 Old 03-22-2016, 07:27 PM
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I just looked up 1990 2.3 engine schematics.......there is NO green/yellow wire going to the FP relay

As I suspect you don't have the harness you think you have.

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #22 of 28 Old 04-04-2016, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
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get the proper wiring diagram...I only have 89 and 91
Let me help you out there (get them while you can!): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u1nwpk1q9...6gJ-PVxUa?dl=0
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post #23 of 28 Old 04-04-2016, 10:47 AM
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Check circuit 97 (T/LG) from the fuel pump relay back to the computer. There is a connector on page 19 of 22 on the diagram at secion 102C and 103D that is pinned differently for that circuit if you have a California emissions 2.3L harness vs a 49 state car 2.3L. I think that may be your problem with not getting switched power to the fuel pump relay. I'm still digging further in the book...stay tuned.
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post #24 of 28 Old 04-04-2016, 10:54 AM
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Also, the 1991 diagram has the fuel pump relay on page 14 of 22. There are two completely different circuits listed for the 2.3L and the 5.0L. Guess what? The wire colors for the fuel pump relay connector are LB/O, R, DG/Y, and PK/BK. I think you have a 1991 chassis harness. Why don't you post your complete VIN number for verification? I'll take a picture of this page of the 1991 diagram and put it in the dropbox folder.
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post #25 of 28 Old 04-04-2016, 07:43 PM
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I don't need them, thanx

If it is my car, colors matter not to me.

If the poster was able to ID the wires by voltage and ground, the poster would not need colors as well.

the colors, was just ease of following.

anyways the two harnesses are not compatible.

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #26 of 28 Old 04-04-2016, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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@STU - Thanks for the diagrams. I got them downloaded. Thanks for the info too, I'll check those out and take a look and report back.
@indy - I checked the voltage from the FP relay wires and posted them up, did I miss something?

Also, why would they not be compatible? I can't image there are that many differences between the two besides wire colors. Maybe a few different pins, but with the schematics and some time I should be able to change them to work. Everything else on the car works fine.


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post #27 of 28 Old 04-04-2016, 08:12 PM
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its a simple circuit, we went through it, but you did not answer what I asked.


the relay has 4 pins
2 for control

2 for load.

the load has hot all the time, and is controlled by the control side.

one side of control is hot when key is in run or start, power from the EEC relay

the other side is ground side switched by the EEC

in run the eec grounds for the prime

in crank the eec grounds if an rpm signal from the ICM is received

that simple

with a test light it should take 5 mins with the relay accessible.

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #28 of 28 Old 04-13-2016, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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@indy - with key in run position and test light grounded I get:

Light at dark green/yellow only

- With key in run position and off position and test light at 12v I get:

Light at pink/black only

- With car in crank and test light grounded I get:

Power at dark green/yellow only and it dims with cranking

- With car in crank and test light at 12v I get:

Power at pink/black only and it dims with cranking

What else do I need to check?




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waxmaster,
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that was my nickname in HS
306 - KB Hypers, GT40P's, LT, GT40 Tubular, 70mm TB, 90mm MA, Pulleys, T-5, 3.73's...I'm sure there's more...
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