Need time slip analyzing and torque converter help....... - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Need time slip analyzing and torque converter help.......

Well my quest to get into the 11s and get thrown off the track is still ongoing.

It was my first trip to the track on ET Streets. I will start out by saying they are TOO good. I am now going to have to spend more money to go faster. TOO much traction if you can believe that. Car now BOGs like a mofo. My best 60' was a dismal 1.96.
Hell I cut 1.80s on 17" tires before. Oh well I guess I will be torque converter shoping.

My plan for the night was to run two shakedown runs and shut off early to not get into the 11s. First run was 12.44 @ 98mph shutting down at 900' or so. Second run was a 12.33 @ 110mph shutting down just after the 1000' mark or so.

Here was my money run for the night. Yes I am dissapointed.

R/T Dont care .652
60' 1.94
330 5.27
1/8 7.91
MPH 93.26
1000 10.20
1/4 12.13
MPH 117.23


I assume that a looser torque converter would eliminate the bogging.

I can't really use anymore rear gear since I am already going through the traps at around 5500+. I might could use a 3.55 but I just don't know if it is worth it since I do drive this car on the street a lot. If I went with a looser converter I think more gear would just compound the problem as well.
I also want to add that I am now convinced that stall speed in my sig is bogus. I might be lucky if the car is stalling at 2200. It is an 11" converter.

I want my dreamy 1.6 second 60' times.

Any help is always appreciated.


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post #2 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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hello is this thing on

So guys help me out here.

Ok what would prove to be more effective. A converter with a true 3k stall or one that is only stalling around 2000 and change my rear gear? 3.73s make me nervous. That would really be pushing it through the traps NO?

I also drive this car as much as 80 miles a day two to three days a week and it sees a lot of freeway time so I just don't know if I can do it. I my try some 3.55s if I can find some for free.

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post #3 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 01:46 PM
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I'd try more air pressure in the tires. If you hit a sweet spot where you have a little spin and better 60's you should hit 11s easy with your trap speeds. I run 12.3-12.4 at just 107. Before I went to 28" tires I spun alot and still ran the same times just more speed (110-111) in the traps. I've used a 5200 stall ran the same times (better 60's), now I'm running a 3500 stall and I run the same times (slower 60's) but more pull on top end. From what I've seen of blower cars, they are more for top end than off the line. I think if you're running out of gear now, it's hurt you more with your gear problems going to a loose converter.

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RIP 466 11.80 @ 115.78MPH
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post #4 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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I'm already at 25 psi in the ET streets. Still no spin
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post #5 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 01:59 PM
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!? Get a better converter. What is your STR (stall torque ratio)? I'd go better converter/same gear instead of vice versa any day.

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post #6 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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buff I don't know. All I know is that it is a TCI(don't go there) 11" converter that is way tighter than I thought it was now that I have some full on traction.

I don't have a problem changing gears I just can't afford to go to far and then have to change something else. I just don't have enough experience to know if I should change the gear or converter. IMO the car is bogging so damn bad that I'm not sure even a 3.73 gear would make a HUGE difference.
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post #7 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 02:23 PM
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Sorry to change the subject , but 468lc, what did your car dyno at?
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post #8 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Coilz347
Sorry to change the subject , but 468lc, what did your car dyno at?
See sig for 89GT.

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post #9 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 02:43 PM
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If you are happy with the rear gear I'd definitely throw a higher stall, smaller convertor in it.

Back when I was blown I had a TCT 10" 3500 stall in mine. Best 60' time was a 1.51 on a 26x10 slick. No bog, just hauled ass. Did it with both the 3.73's and the old 3.55's without any noticeble change in either gearset. Plenty streetable too, I know that's a big concern.

With the right convertor you should be able make those MT's howl for mercy.
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post #10 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks tim. At this point I may try both, going to the 3.55s and try a 10" dare I say TCI converter. I am poor lol.

I would think that getting the stall speed close to the start of boost the combo would work well even if the rear gear was not perfect. I am showing a pound of boost at around 2600 rpms on the dyno.

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post #11 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 03:42 PM
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I agree with Tim. A quality converter that is properly matched to your combo will do wonders, to say the least. My old car originally had a 2800 stall converter, and regularly cut low 1.80 60 foots on drag radials. When I changed the combo, it was lucky to get anything in the 1.90's.....I went with a 3800 stall, and immediately went in the 1.50's, best of a 1.51 60 foot. The looser converter allowed it to get into boost MUCH quicker.

Put it this way, with a two step set at 3000 rpm's, I could get 5-6 psi of boost at the line, but the car wouldn't hook like that. I got my best results from "footbraking it" to a mere 1800 rpm's....

If you're happy with the finish line rpm's, leave the rear gearing alone. With a 117 mph, you "should" be capable of at least 11.70's.....11.80's at worst. Do yourself a favor and get a nice converter. TCI converters are junk IMO, right on par with B&M or GER converters....For about three years, I worked in an actual "Speed Shop", and never once remember anyone even buying a TCI converter from us, for anything more than like a Street Rod or something along those lines, never for a car that can actually run
...For a C4, go with a Dynamic, or Performance Automatic version, IMO....You'll get what you pay for.

FWIW, that same AOD and 3800 PI Stallion converter wound up in my new car (94 GT), and even though it only went a very high 12, it was able to cut a 1.901 60 foot on regular old 275/40/17 radials.....

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Last edited by rel3rd; 05-24-2003 at 03:45 PM.
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post #12 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Bob I couldn't agree more. I have had two bad TCI converters in about 5 years. Neither of which were in this car but both were out of balance. You are right that you get what you pay for.

The TCI I have now is flawless but the stall is tight.

I would love to get a custom converter but I have to play the poor card lol. The other problem that I have is no one and I have called a few of the bigger names out there wants to build me a 24 spline converter. They all want me to change over to 26 spline stuff. More money that I don't have.
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post #13 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 03:58 PM
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How about getting Art Carr, or someone else to do a "re-stall" on the converter that you have now???

That is the absolute cheapest route, and you'd get the converter checked out at the same time...

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post #14 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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That is a possibility. I don't know a lot about converters but I was under the impression that getting a full 3k stall out of an 11" housing is hard to do. I don't know.

I will definitely look into it.

The other longshot if I didn't just buy another ****ty TCI would be to get a PA unit from JDs since they can do the 24spline 10" converter. That unit is in the 450 range which if I had to save up for it the season will be almost over.

Damn I need to knock over an armored truck.
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post #15 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 05:23 PM
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Another vote for the converter...

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post #16 of 30 Old 05-24-2003, 11:55 PM
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Steve, don't change both at once. Do the convertor and see where that puts you and if you want to spin it a bit more then do the gears.

Like Bob mentioned, maybe look at having the current one cut open and tweaked. It may not be optimum de to the size but would definitely be cost effective. One of my friends had his TCI cut open and restalled locally for a couple hundred (canadian) dollars. Went from what you describe to closer to 3000rpm. May not be ideal but certinaly would help out.

You can always sell off the old one to offset the cost.
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post #17 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 12:31 AM
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If I recall, it's usually not more than $150 to get your converter opened up and "adjusted." I agree that being on a tight budget, that's your best bet. I would tell the converter guy to err on the loose side as opposed to the tight side, especially since it's an 11 inch.
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post #18 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 04:18 AM
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Not my post, but pretty much answered some questions I had. TTT

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post #19 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 09:08 AM
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I have to disagree with the get what you pay for in a torque converter hype. I know that with my big block, getting into the powerband isn't as big of an issue as with a turbo or blower car, but I bought a $900+ Coan custom built for my car (cam spec, weight, displacement, gears, etc) and now I run a TCI and other than the stall speed, I can't tell a difference. I trap the same, I ET the same, and the TCI is more consistent so I cut better lights. IF I don't sell the Coan, I'll get it restalled because it has the anti baloning plate and is made heavier (probably hold up better to the bottle if and when I get one).


I always thought stall speeds would make a huge difference in ETs, but in my case it didn't.
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post #20 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kidott
I always thought stall speeds would make a huge difference in ETs, but in my case it didn't.
My gains came from mostly the 60' time. 2 tenths difference over my loose 10" to the moderate 8". That's huge.

Now I think it may be too loose costing me some top end so once it gets sorted out it should pick up a bit more on the 60' as well.
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post #21 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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I know stall speed is going to effect my car a lot. It is horrible right now.

Tim I am going to do the 3.55s first since I got some for free and I need to replace my original bearings anyway. I figure I can get at least an 11.95 or so with just this alone. I will then proceed on with the tranny work.
I don't think the RPMs will be to unruly on the street or track with these.

If you think this is a mistake though please let me know.
Thanks for all your help tim.

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post #22 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 04:29 PM
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hey for what its worth the guy who bought my old coupe put in a 306/C4 with and s trim and ran 10.90s

he had a TCI 3800 street fighter convertor (about $500) in the C4 and he was getting 1.45 60fts yanking both tires about 2 feet off the ground


TCIs arent all bad
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post #23 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 04:48 PM
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You're right Mike. They're not "all" bad...
I'd compare them to Powerdyne blowers...
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post #24 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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My only ***** with TCI is there customer service and the morons running it. TCI can produce some quality parts but like I said before I have purchased two converters from them that would take your teeth out of your head. Guess what I tell them their converters are out of balance and they so oh no there not but you can send it back to us for a fee and I have to pay the shipping.BS

TCI is certainly not as bad as what I have heard of GER.

The one I have now I love but it's just too tight. I would consider buying another if I can get rid of the one I have. LOL 24spline converters are hard as hell to get rid of.
Mike the converter I would try if another TCI would be the 10" street fighter unit.

I will prevail though damn it.

LOL bob I like your comparison there.
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post #25 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Fookin broke ass corral.
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post #26 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Fookin broke ass corral2.
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post #27 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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#rd times a charm beotch.
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post #28 of 30 Old 05-25-2003, 07:31 PM
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I'm all for the gear swap. My point was do one thing at a time and see what it gets you.

I'm going to guess it'll help somewhat, but not an aweful lot. I tried to mask a poor convertor with mine last year with a gear swap, went from 3.73's to 4.10's. Net result, 0.04 in the 60'. Whoopie! A 1.65 to a 1.61.

That's when I knew it was time to do the convertor, then things dropped down in the 1.49-1.51 range just about every time.

Since you've got some stuff to take care of inside the rear anyways then by all means stuff the 3.55's in. It definitely won't hurt you.
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post #29 of 30 Old 05-26-2003, 07:19 PM
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are you seeing any boost at all at launch rpm?
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post #30 of 30 Old 05-26-2003, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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Not that I'm aware of. On the dyno it didn't produce boost at all untill sometime around 2700.

This coincides the bog. It bogs bad until it spins from around 2200 until the high 2k range then it takes off like a bat out of hell.

I have my 3.55s in possession and a build kit on hand so that will be done before my next track adventure.
I still figure I could use 500 to 800 RPM more stall.

I am also working on a larger crank pulley custom made by me for my Novi 1K for another two to three PSI which will also make the boost come in a little sooner.

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