Hi,
So I finally got to the point I can take my 93 GT to the track. It's been an uphill battle since the new combo was put together with all kinds of small set backs. My goal is to run in the 10s N/A once I find out where the engine likes to be shifted and suspension settings and so on. I'm no stranger to drive fast manuals and at least my friends think I am a good driver lol. I've ran 10.30s@134 with a 1.5460ft with a manual on a different platform on same size drag radials and stock suspension. Previous owner of my stang weighed the car and iirc he told me to weight around 3100-3150 with heavier seats, full tail pipes, heavy front sway bar and stock hood. I know the new block and rotating assembly weight more. The car now has a cowl hood, front sway bar removed and exhaust dumps and no other weight reduction. I'm thinking the car weights about 3200 with me in it, maybe a little more. Future plans are tubular k-member and coilovers up front waiting to be installed.
Here's the combo:
ZSR Dart based 349 stroker
11:3.1 compression
FTI custom cam for 6800 rpms
TFS 11R 190 heads
TFS Box R intake
90 Throttle Body with 4" tube
1 3/4 headers, 3" collectors with 3" x pipe that merges into Dynomax Ultraflo 2 1/2" dumps
TKO Transmission with Ram Powergrip clutch and aluminum driveshaft
4.10 gears w/31 splines axles and CHE brace
No front sway bar
Front coil spring - eibach sport lines
Rear coil spring - OEM 1 coil cut
Tokico D - spec adjustable shocks and struts
Front 18 SVE replica wheels
UPR non adjustable ULCAs
BMR UCA stiffening brace
full length subframe connectors
M/T DR 275/40-17s (psi probably 17-20) with somewhat heavy SVE replica wheels
I think mid to high 11s are possible this first time out without laying on it too hard, and if I do everything right and there are no serious traction problems. My previous car ran 11.20s @ 122 N/A and this car definitely feels stronger.
Yeah i definetly think 10's is possible.like you said its just getting everthing dialed in correctly.How is the ram powergrip clutch? How is the pedal feel?
Well I think the 10s are very possible with suspension and tires changes. Plus I have to really smooth out the VE table since there are some peaks that are causing it to stumble during WOT.
The clutch is smooth and the pedal effort is way better compared to the king cobra pressure plate was installed prior.
Here's the update:
I can for sure say the car has the potential to run 10s. First, the track was unbelievable packed like never before temps were around low 70s and I was only able to do only two runs with no cooling since I had to constantly start the engine to move the car. On my first attempt I tried with the DRs lowered to 22psi, no changes to the suspension settings, 90% full tank of gas and leaving at 3500 rpms with a slight slip. It did grab decent but on my shifting to 2nd at 6800 it started to spin and rear started to come around so I release the gas pedal and got back on it. Engine was stumbling through because the VE table is not completely tuned so it has some peaks that need work and it was making it go rich. Rest of gear changes were at 6300-6500.
Second attempt went bad. Lowered the tires to 18 psi and was trying to leave around 4000 rpms but in reality left at 4500 and was a little to aggressive with the clutch release and spun so bad that 2nd gear didn't want go in. Still completed the run with he same rich stumbles and shifting around 6600, but still surprised me as to what it ran.
First pass time slip:
1.85 60ft
5.21
7.88 @ 92.45
12.03 @ 120.11
Second pass slip, I thought I saved it but I lost it. What I can remember was:
1.98 60ft
12.89 @ 117
Can someone recommend me a set of tires or possibly wheels/tires combo to be able to drive to the track on them. I think MT and Hoosier both make a tire that are bias ply and are DOT, but do they hook like a slick? I rather keep the height around 26" if all possible. Thank you in advance.
I've used ET street bias ply and Hoosier Quick time pros over the years. They wrinkle up like a slick but I would say they are a poor street tire to drive on all the time. I just switched up to a slick and happy with the results so far. I never could get my car to launch on drag radials with the stick. Keep the drag radials for street driving and get a slick for the drag. Jegs has some very inexpensive drag wheels like the SSR that I use. Best of both worlds.
My first suggestion would be to explore lower tire pressure in the existing rear tires along the lines of 14-14.5 PSI. Are you getting any weight transfer onto the rear tires? Is the car trying to pull the front tires off the ground or are you immediately going into spin? If you are going to get a set of rims for drag racing you need to find out what diameter wheel will clear your rear brakes and then look at tire availability. I use to run the old MT ET Streets with my 5 speed and low mid 1.6s were possible with my 302 based combo. I don't know what MT has in bias ply street slicks any more. I swapped to an AOD and drag radials.
I lowered the pressure to 18 psi for the second pass but honestly the car just blew the tires with a quick slip at around 4500 rpms. I can feel the front raising but I didn't have time to play with the struts adjustment.
I've used ET street bias ply and Hoosier Quick time pros over the years. They wrinkle up like a slick but I would say they are a poor street tire to drive on all the time. I just switched up to a slick and happy with the results so far. I never could get my car to launch on drag radials with the stick. Keep the drag radials for street driving and get a slick for the drag. Jegs has some very inexpensive drag wheels like the SSR that I use. Best of both worlds.
I wouldn't drive with those on the street. In fact, I don't use the drag radials I have on the street. I have regular radials for that since I get really annoyed with the rocks being thrown in the wheel wells. Plus I know the tires won't last.
I am starting to seriously consider slicks and just install them at the track. Only thing is that 90% of the time I am by myself and I don't want to be carrying extra weight in the car. Btw, funny that I was looking a Jegs wheels.
I have always had the best results with drag radials in the 13.5 - 14.5 PSI range. I ran 235/60 MT Drag Radial on an 8" Weld Draglite with my 302 combo and cranked out 1.56 60 foot times and the few times I have been out with my 347 combo I have hit 1.49 60 foot with a 255/60 MT Drag Radial on the same 8" Weld Draglite. I have 70/30 struts on the front with 4 banger springs.
I would try loosening the front struts and dropping the pressure. I would make my first pass leaving the starting line like you leave (hard) from a stop sign on the street. The goal is to see if you can stay hooked after leaving the line hooked up. Are you blowing the tires away on the shifts? How old are your MTs?
I have always had the best results with drag radials in the 13.5 - 14.5 PSI range. I ran 235/60 MT Drag Radial on an 8" Weld Draglite with my 302 combo and cranked out 1.56 60 foot times and the few times
There needs STICKY made drag radials and manual transmission don't play well together with a normal clutch. The clutch has to be adjustable or you need a bias tire on a stick car.
I'd be on a 26x8.5 or 26x10 bias ply slick for a stick car. I believe the Quick Time Pro from hoosier is the DOT slick and the ET Street (non radial) from M/T is DOT. Pretty hard to keep traction when you're shocking a radial.
Keep your radials, you just need a clutch hit controller to make them work. What a clutch hit controller does is give you a consistent way to adjust how long the clutch slips after launch. The longer clutch slip time is stretched out, the softer the hit will be. That softer hit will make your stick shift car compatible with radials. That softer hit also allows raising launch rpm far higher, which makes quite a bit more stored energy available for the launch.
If your car had an automatic, 10's would be possible just by choosing the right converter. With a stick, you get there by controlling the hit of the clutch. The downside to a converter is that a proper converter for your current combo may not work well at future power levels. Put a hit controller on your Powergrip HD, the clutch you already have will work for both your current combo and most future upgrades.
I used to do a controlled slip of the clutch on my previous car and although that worked quite well to plant the tires, the clutch didn’t last. I’m trying to avoid that this time as I’m not getting younger and pulling transmissions isn’t as fun anymore. If you can guarantee my clutch would last me a while, then I may consider it, otherwise I leave that for those that want to live under the car replacing clutches. Although understandably that replacing a clutch is better than replacing a transmission, still sucks either way.
Sounds like the controlled clutch slip on your previous car wasn't actually controlled very well. Basically the clutch only needs to slip until the car is moving fast enough for the clutch to lock up at a reasonable rpm. If the clutch hits too hard, either it bogs the engine or spins the radials. If the clutch doesn't hit hard enough, the launch is lazy which abuses the clutch. Assuming you have a TKO 500 in your current car, it should only take about 0.8sec of actual clutch slipping to launch it properly with radials. Easy to do with a clutch hit controller, but it's going to cost you a lot of clutches to achieve that same level of precision with your foot.
Your car is definitely running strong man keep us posted on what tires and how you make out with it. I too struggle with traction issues i have a 427 stroker and tko600. I have heard good things about the hoosier quick time pros for stick cars.
Hi and thanks! My buddy keeps telling me to stop wasting time and get some slicks. I've always like the sleeper approach and if I could run 10s with radials I would. I just figure that installing the tubular k member I have sitting around with some 12/150 coil overs and possibly lighter wheels with 26x8/9 slicks will get me at least in the very low 11s and then fine tune from there. Thinking about a 6 point roll bar since I don't feel as safe in this car as I was in my previous 08 C6 that ran low 10s and it was my DD. I still have factory seats, A/C, P/S, full interior, cobra brakes all around and really heavy replica wheels. I'm still undecided if I want to go manual steering and maybe ditch the A/C. After all this isn't my DD, but once again, I love sleepers.
Btw, what's your full combo? So how bad are your traction issues? 11.0s with traction problems is nothing to sneeze at. If I could do it all over again I would've done a Dart based 408 stroker. Who knows? I like anything that makes power but mustangs are my passion. I am already contemplating what could be my next car lol
427 boss block
Afr205 heads
Comp cam street/strip 555/576 236/240 duration at .050
11.3:1 compression
Trickflow R intake
90mm throttle body
Tuned with a sct chip
3.55 rear gears.
I have always heard that steeper ratio helps control some of the traction due to wheel speed. Not sure if that's really the case since I haven't really tested that theory.
Where does the engine power peaks at? It sounds like to you want to keep it really streetable with the 3.55s and TKO600. Sometimes it's hard to have both a street/strip car that is great on both aspects.
Made two more passes last night. I lowered the tire pressure to 17 and 16 respectively and loosened the struts. To my surprise it did gain traction and I wasn't expecting it getting so much better causing me to slip the clutch too long and taking a little longer to go WOT. The 60 foot weren't great at all, with both been in the high 1.90s running a 12.03 and 11.99 at 121mph. Trap speed tells me the 10 seconds potential is there.
One thing I noticed. I thought this should not happen when running speed density, but the passenger side valve cover breather popped out and the AFR ratio changed through the run (Leaner). Even the idle afterwards was leaner and how I figured something wasn't definitely right. Can someone with tuning knowledge can explain that one to me? I thought this is something that would only affect a MAF set up. Only thing I can think of it would be if there's a small leak at the intake manifold gaskets. The big opening at the valve cover would allow more air to come into the crankcase and thus making it's way into the cylinders far easier. I don't doubt this since I've experienced several problems with intake manifold gaskets and sealing issues. A common thing with SBFs and my buddy tells me that I should torque the intake more than 22 torque since I have studs. Any advice there?
So the season is officially over for me. The plan as of right now is to buy a roll bar, some 15x8/10 wheels and 26x8.5/10 slicks. Will install an tubular k member and possibly a baseline suspension pro launch upper control arm relocation system. Since the roll bar will add weight, I may end up removing the rear seats since I don't use them to counter the weight gain. I really don't like to strip the car for weight loss, but man the new era is quick and fast. So the deeper I get into the 10s the better it is to be somewhat competitive.
13.5 to 14.5 PSI is where the magic happens. You get the added action of wadding up the sidewalls which helps absorb the shock of the launch and keep you hooked up. I drive an automatic so what do I know...
I am running the Baseline relocated uppers with the polymer bushings. Even with the bushing you hear and feel more in the car. The thing I liked the most about the setup is it improved the consistency. The 60 ft got a smidge better but the consistency it what stood out for me.
You still have 2 more shots at Gateway Oct 25th and Nov 2nd. Nov 2nd TnT runs from 10am to 4pm
Hi! I didn't realize you were so close to me. Yes I could tell the car liked the lower pressure a lot more and I was actually tempted to almost just do a super quick slip but was scared that it would end up in an aborted run to massive spinning. That's a risk that now that I think about it I should have taken but being able to do 2-3 runs a night sucks.
So I take your car is a street car with the poly bushings? I was thinking about just using the cheaper version of the pro launch since I'm starting to consider turning the car into more a strict drag car. Even like it is at this point my wife hates it and says like the car is unsafe since you can pretty much feel and hear the suspension.
I looked at the schedule but considering how packed it's been the two WOWs, I can't imagine how it's going to be on the MNM with even more street cars. The Saturday sounded good but I have stuff to take care at the house. Btw, were you there last night? I don't recall seeing a car like yours.
I was not there on Wednesday. I need to get my car sorted out before I head to the track with it. The drag radials on the back of the car were part of the reward of winning the Outlaw All-Stars 12.0 index championship back in 2010 right before the track closed for good. Or so we thought at the time. The drag radials still look brand new, but they are 9+ years old now. I have been getting sidetracked on my Fusion which is close to dipping into the 12s with just a tune. It is a fun daily driver/sleeper.
In the video it didn’t seem like you carried very much RPM and tire spin out of the water box for very long at all. I would want to make sure I get all the water out of the tread in the drag radial before rolling up to the line. If you have to drive through the water box it will also help you not get as much water on your rear tires that your front tires end up pulling past the waterbox. Also make sure you line up Where the good rubber has been put down. A little off to one side or the other can Make for a disappointing 60 ft. Another thing is try to keep the car going perfectly straight down the track and work on shifting quicker.
You definitely have potential to run a 10. Slicks will make this a whole bunch easier! Went to slacks and I’ve never looked back even when I used to carry them in my car down to the track to switch tires run and have to switch back to drive home.
So I just wanted to update to my last attempt at the 1/4 mile. First, a little background on things that happened in the meantime....
So my engine blew a head gasket and it caught me by surprise but I believe it was my own fault as I was running a decent amount of timing while cruising and somewhat lean AFRs with 11.3 compression is no good. No additional damage to the engine, but I went to a different HG and lowered the compression to about 11.1 now. Lots of tuning in the cruising area and the car is happy, but I left it a little rich on top on purpose to lean as I learn what the engine really likes.
I took the downtime to install a tubular k member and arms, remove the a/c and p/s so went with a manual rack. Added adjustable upper/lower control arms and reinforced the torque boxes. Finally adjusted the pinion angle to -2.5 which was completely off to around +4. The previous owner of the car installed Cobra brakes but didn't do the proportioning valve mod and adjustable valve and when doing burnouts the car will always go sideways and couldn't do it properly.
I bought some slicks and lighter wheels for the rear, but I wasn't able to install them yet. I decided to take it to the track last night since my buddy asked me.
With the exact same tires as before with 20 psi on them here are the results:
3K rpms launch, short shifted 1-2 and missed 3-4... 1.76 60ft 7.57@89.39 1/8 mile 11.82@119.05 1/4 mile
4K rpms launch, spun let off got back on, every gear on point ... 1.86 60ft 7.84@92.77 11.95@121.69
3.5K rpms lauch, spun again let off and back on, every gear on point... 1.87 60ft 7.85@93.56 11.94@122
The suspension changes are working. Still not good trying to go down the track on DRs. Still rich on top with high 11s AFR.
Once I install the slicks I figure it would run low 11s on my first couple of passes based on trap speed. I may switch to skinnies on the front but not sold on them yet.
I agreed! I may go again next Wednesday and give it another try with lower tire pressure and lower rpms. I didn't touch the adjustable shocks and left them just like I use them on the street. I had adjusted the MAT/CLT correction table which made it richer than I expected, so I adjusted that today along with a touch less commanded AFR. Will see what happens.
I have an update that I meant to add to my attempts to run better times. So I decided to race one more time before the track was closed for the season.
I installed the MT 26x10 stiff sidewall slicks with no other changes. I had been experiencing a miss on and off after 6,000 rpms that I couldn’t figure out only after this past Saturday. I normally shift between 6,500-6,800 rpms, so I feel I left a couple of tenths on the table. Mind you the races were like two weeks ago.
My best pass was an 11.38@122 with a 1.57 60ft. So with my luck that night the engine was missing. Also, I could still feel the the tires spin while I was leaving at 5,000 or so with 15 psi on the slicks.
For those curious as to what was the miss...well the base (normally press fitted to shaft) of the reluctor wheel on the distributor was lose! I could wiggle it side to side about 2-3mm, but couldn’t pull it out. So I just spot weld it and all is good now. I couldn’t see a timing variance during datalogs so my guess is that it was more or less messing with the injectors pulse.
Very good! I ran an 11.38 with a 1.56 60ft at 120 mph before I put. Gforce faceplated straight cut gear set in my T5z. First pass after that it ran 11.12 at just over 122 followed up by an 11.14 at just over 121.
You should look into a face plated transmission, a two step with a clutch activated switch, and a line lock if you get hell bent serious about getting into the high tens consistently. I have also found that doing a third gear burn out with the short tire and 4.56 rear gear was necessary to get the tires heated consistently. It’s hard to get the wheel speed up to get them hot otherwise.
Honestly, if I could I would go for a G101...I think that's the name. With the current TR3550, I believe my car would benefit for a gear change to 4.30 as well. I do my burnouts in 2nd gear.
Currently I am going to change pushrods from 5/16 .080 to .116. I think the pushrods are deflecting a little since I found a piece of one the roller rockers trunnion snap rings on the magnetic oil drain plug. Luckily I found the other part still intact on the rocker arm and no damage since it looks like it broke clean and went through cylinder head drain passage. This is the part I don't like about fairly modified engines breaking stuff all the time.
The G101 would be a great choice and is a far superior transmission. I only kept with a T5 style transmission because I wanted to keep overdrive so I can still drive it around and get on the freeway. Otherwise, I would’ve went with some thing like the G101.
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