Preference...C4 or PG? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 06-07-2019, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Preference...C4 or PG?

Behind a healthy small block with boost or nitrous. I'm looking at two cars and one has C4 and the other has PG. The PG car is a n/a 347 putting down measly 420rwhp.
The C4 car is a 408 with Vortech supercharger. I'm guessing 600 or so rwhp. This will be a street/strip car.


CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #2 of 27 Old 06-07-2019, 07:08 PM
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C4 gets my vote.


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post #3 of 27 Old 06-07-2019, 10:04 PM
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Iíve got a PG w Brake behind my 383 cleveland.
Havenít gotten to drive it much yet.
Will be interesting to see how driveable it is on the street.....
Engine getting refreshed at the machine shop as we speak.
Hoping it will be tolerable.



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post #4 of 27 Old 06-07-2019, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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I've read that many guys prefer 3 gears while going down the track. It seems that the big hp guys prefer the PG. After driving a manual for so long; I'm thinking an auto is going to feel boring but it has it's benefits in heavy stop and go traffic.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #5 of 27 Old 06-08-2019, 08:08 PM
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Street car,3 speeds+. BIG power street racer,glide.

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post #6 of 27 Old 06-08-2019, 08:18 PM
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Hopefully lll have more feedback on how streetable a PG glide is behind a 550ish stroker cleveland in about a month!!!!



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post #7 of 27 Old 06-16-2019, 11:54 PM
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I drive mine sometimes on the street. 438"w, methanol injected, PG, 6000 stall spragless. It's a bracket car not a heads-up spend as much as you can to beat the next guy.

It drives just like a C4 but without first gear. WIth methanol injection, it runs rich at anything under full throttle anyway, so it's real choppy, stinky, and VERY responsive. The PG's low gear (which is similar to a C4 second gear) takes up a lot of that jerkyness at low speeds/part throttle. I'd say it's streetable but everyone's setup is different.

Again, it's similar at part throttle as a C4 in 2nd. Similar but not exactly the same. PG has a little lower low than a C4's second (1.80/1.82/1.76 PG vs C4's 1.48)

PG eats up a little less power too and built correctly they are VERY robust. I'm on season #13 with mine and I ain't nowhere easy on it, no rebuilds in that time period. Street miles? Maybe 100. Trailer it close to the "drive", then unload and drive it to the spot. Usually under 5 miles or thereabouts. I had the pan off this past week doing inspection for excessive mud or metal; none found. Replaced fluid and wanted to run today, 70% of rain dampened that-and guess what? Not a drop fell from the sky. About right.

I went from 4 speed to a PG (same day, different cars) and the PG is almost as much fun, particularly if the car runs faster than 10.00 (give or take). 4 speed car was 9.40's and PG was 8.90, real similar engines but the cars' weights were different.

I've raced PG equipped cars from mid 13's to 8.80's, all N/A, and I've run (personally) C4's from mid 14's down to 8.90's n/a in my own stuff. Prefer the PG but again I'm bracket racing and some index stuff. I like mine but again I don't do much street with it. Keep in mind that back in the 1960's and early 1970's, these WERE street driven, behind low powered inlines mind you. People liked them; but some found success in swapping in a "new" (in those days) TH350 short tailshaft which was a bolt-in deal minus shift linkage and kickdown cable. The aluminum powerglide is one of the few things GM got right, and even then, they aren't "perfect"--but the aftermarket.....gosh you can actually build one without a single OE part nowadays. Hard to beat one for a bracket racing combo like mine, at least if it's properly set up.

Lotta guys say go with a TH400 and they are good transmissions, but heavy--and they can get really expensive real quick. C4's need a lot of mods to live; and even then there's no guarantee. I've run them for seasons between rebuilds, then the next one might get 15 passes until it smoked the forward clutch, or whatever. Those were mostly low-buck builds as well; nothing exotic, not a lot of aftermarket internals other than valve body, servo, and clutches.

The bad part about 3+ speed stuff is that once you start making some real power, especially in a light car, it gets to the point where traction becomes an issue and/or wheel stands can get out of hand, negating a wheelie bar (or as some call them, sissy sticks), making chassis tuning imperative.
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post #8 of 27 Old 06-17-2019, 12:29 AM
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Every car I have had in my life where I have went from a 3 speed to a glide has been faster on the glide. The glide is far more critical to having the correct converter, but once it is there it is fast. Now I know a 100 HP engine with a tight converter is way faster on a three speed, but everything I've had over 500 HP is good on a glide.

So far as the street, they all have a 1:1 drive ratio. The convert style is critical on the street. You want a mechanical diode or sprag type converter on the street. You will get better fuel mileage and the transmission will run cooler.

I have a Hughes mechanical diode in my car and it is great on the street, but it is pretty tight when the car is not in boost. If I run a spragless converter of the same stall, the trans is 50*-100* warmer and my fuel economy drops.


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post #9 of 27 Old 06-17-2019, 10:02 AM
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If you like street driving go Freddy Brown AOD you will not be disappointed
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post #10 of 27 Old 06-17-2019, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies guys. I have no problem driving a non overdrive tranny as I put so little miles on a car. It's interesting to read what you guys are using and why. The majority of driving will be Hwy and city stop and go. Test and tune nights are 2-3 times per month in the cooler months as this is Phoenix and running in the heat sucks. If I had a way of hauling tools, jack and bias ply slicks; I'd keep the manual. With an auto; I can drive and play on radials. That's always a plus.


CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #11 of 27 Old 06-17-2019, 02:15 PM
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My Dad's '56 BelAir convertible has a PG. It's fun to drive. That's the extent of my PG experience. LOL!!
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post #12 of 27 Old 06-17-2019, 03:01 PM
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Just buy the car that has the best/most goodies so that you don't have to purchase them later on then if you don't like the trans get a different one.

I'd get the supercharged one no matter what if given the choice between the two.

ks


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post #13 of 27 Old 06-17-2019, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tjm73 View Post
My Dad's '56 BelAir convertible has a PG. It's fun to drive. That's the extent of my PG experience. LOL!!
Lol! I grew up with Ford-O-Matics, Cruise-O-Matics, C4's and C6's, Turbo 350's and 400's. I never thought twice about is because gas was cheap and the cars didn't have 4.10 gears.
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post #14 of 27 Old 06-17-2019, 03:46 PM
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I said to my Dad once "Turning 2800-3000 rpm pulling the camper kinda makes me cringe." His reply was "Until the early 80's everything turned those RPM's at highway speed all the time." I'm with you on the OD thought. It's nice if it's there, but unless you drive a lot it won't pay to add it.

I would also vote for the 408 car.
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post #15 of 27 Old 06-18-2019, 07:21 AM
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Since this question was posed in the Drag Racing section, then Glide is the only way to go. At serious power levels the C4 will require constant repair. A glide can be made to take 2k plus power when you get into the aftermarket case/bell internals. Nobody makes a SFI case for the C4. My Glide is all Reid Case/Bellhousing and top shelf internals and is rated for over 1,700 hp. Been using it for 4 years and all it gets is a annual fluid change, no problems.

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Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
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post #16 of 27 Old 06-18-2019, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Saleen414 View Post
Since this question was posed in the Drag Racing section, then Glide is the only way to go. At serious power levels the C4 will require constant repair. A glide can be made to take 2k plus power when you get into the aftermarket case/bell internals. Nobody makes a SFI case for the C4. My Glide is all Reid Case/Bellhousing and top shelf internals and is rated for over 1,700 hp. Been using it for 4 years and all it gets is a annual fluid change, no problems.
I gave the approximate RWHP of both cars and neither one approaches your definition of a drag car. The cars I listed pale in comparison to yours. I will only be running test and tune nights for fun and no actual classes. I have the upmost confidence that a C4 will last in either car. It's done regularly around here.

In conversation with one racer; he felt that a lower HP car benefited from 3 gears thus reducing the spread between gears. He puts PG's in his 7-8 second cars with the belief that more HP pulls the longer gear spread much easier. Does that make sense?

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #17 of 27 Old 06-18-2019, 02:24 PM
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This is very interesting.....
If someone has a very nice c4, Iíve got s very nice PG with SFI Bell housing and new BTE 3000-3500
Converter.

Iím not saying I would swap, but would consider it.
Iím in Houston.



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post #18 of 27 Old 06-18-2019, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
Behind a healthy small block with boost or nitrous. I'm looking at two cars and one has C4 and the other has PG. The PG car is a n/a 347 putting down measly 420rwhp.
The C4 car is a 408 with Vortech supercharger. I'm guessing 600 or so rwhp. This will be a street/strip car.

Out of these cars I’d take the 408 with vortech and c4. I have a mighty might c-4 with a bit more power than this car and love it. At this power level, a c4 can handle, if build properly. Also, for street driving I enjoy working the RMVB shifter through 3 gears. To me, it makes it more fun to drive.
If it were an all out racecar with 1,000 plus hp and your chasing victories, I’d say the PG all day. But this is not your case.
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post #19 of 27 Old 06-18-2019, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Out of these cars Iíd take the 408 with vortech and c4. I have a mighty might c-4 with a bit more power than this car and love it. At this power level, a c4 can handle, if build properly. Also, for street driving I enjoy working the RMVB shifter through 3 gears. To me, it makes it more fun to drive.
If it were an all out racecar with 1,000 plus hp and your chasing victories, Iíd say the PG all day. But this is not your case.
I just noticed that you're running a stock block!!! Do tell...

Also; the 408 car is a '95GT where as the 347 car is a '88 Fox.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #20 of 27 Old 06-18-2019, 09:26 PM
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I gave the approximate RWHP of both cars and neither one approaches your definition of a drag car. The cars I listed pale in comparison to yours. I will only be running test and tune nights for fun and no actual classes. I have the upmost confidence that a C4 will last in either car. It's done regularly around here.

In conversation with one racer; he felt that a lower HP car benefited from 3 gears thus reducing the spread between gears. He puts PG's in his 7-8 second cars with the belief that more HP pulls the longer gear spread much easier. Does that make sense?
Makes perfect sense, so the question is not really about which is the best drag race trans in your application, but rather the best all around trans. In that case the C4 is the better choice.

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #21 of 27 Old 06-18-2019, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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Makes perfect sense, so the question is not really about which is the best drag race trans in your application, but rather the best all around trans. In that case the C4 is the better choice.
Yeah. I guess you could say that. I hadn't really thought of wording it that way. What's important is that I knew what I meant. Lol!
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CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #22 of 27 Old 06-24-2019, 03:36 PM
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personally id take a glide over a C4 in most applications... and a 400 over a glide in most of those applications (2 speed in some 3 speed in others)

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post #23 of 27 Old 07-08-2019, 10:24 AM
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I got a Might Mite C4 for my turbo 306 street car.C4s can be built to handle some serious HP.I also have a TCI Glide,But I decided that the C4 was a better choice for a "street' car.I have to manually shift it so that should add to the fun of having a automatic over a manual,very breakable, 5 speed T5 or Tremec.But if I was building a 8 or 7 second drag only car...Glide all day long.
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post #24 of 27 Old 07-08-2019, 10:47 AM
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Anybody want to trade my built Powerglide for your built C4?

Thinking about this..
Not 100% sure if itís the right thing for me to do but would consider it.

Mike



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post #25 of 27 Old 07-08-2019, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by biggjupiter410 View Post
I got a Might Mite C4 for my turbo 306 street car.C4s can be built to handle some serious HP.I also have a TCI Glide,But I decided that the C4 was a better choice for a "street' car.I have to manually shift it so that should add to the fun of having a automatic over a manual,very breakable, 5 speed T5 or Tremec.But if I was building a 8 or 7 second drag only car...Glide all day long.
I've pretty much decided to go with a C4 if and when I build another car. Is yours quick shifting or is it still a bit lazy?

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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post #26 of 27 Old 07-08-2019, 01:04 PM
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My brother runs a C4 (full manual shift reverse pattern) behind his 418W. Shifts are instantaneous. As soon as the lever moves it's in the next gear. It's street driven regularly.
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post #27 of 27 Old 07-08-2019, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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My brother runs a C4 (full manual shift reverse pattern) behind his 418W. Shifts are instantaneous. As soon as the lever moves it's in the next gear. It's street driven regularly.
Good to know. My last auto was an AODE and it was one lazy transmission.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
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