Starting line ratio - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 51 Old 10-04-2018, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Starting line ratio

How important is it?


CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 51 Old 10-05-2018, 03:22 AM
Registered User
 
CrucialProspect's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 915
I definitely believe it’s worth noting, but until I see a problem with what I have, I don’t believe it’s worth correcting, if that makes sense.

CrucialProspect is offline  
post #3 of 51 Old 10-05-2018, 05:55 AM
Corral Elite Member
 
Saleen414's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Levant, Maine
Posts: 2,265
The higher (numerically) the ratio, the softer the hit on the tire. Especially in a high torque situation. I run a small 26 X 8.5 tire and found that getting the car to 60' was easier with a 4.10:1 gear than it was with a 3.73:1 rear gear. The taller gear (lower numerically) shocks the tire harder. It is counter intuitive but works. It is leverage at work. Not every car is going to experience this same scenario.There is a lot to be said about having the rear suspension set up right to begin with. If the rear set up is wrong, then it does not matter what gear is in the car, it still is not going to work the way it should.

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
Saleen414 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 51 Old 10-05-2018, 07:55 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: casper wy.
Posts: 984
There are many variables that come to play. What are you doing with the car? Race only or the street strip combo. The weight of the car. the power the motor makes and where. A power adder car makes more torque down low for the most part. The trans weather a stick or auto and what gears are in it. Tire size and so on.
TomR likes this.
wywindsor is offline  
post #5 of 51 Old 10-05-2018, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by wywindsor View Post
There are many variables that come to play. What are you doing with the car? Race only or the street strip combo. The weight of the car. the power the motor makes and where. A power adder car makes more torque down low for the most part. The trans weather a stick or auto and what gears are in it. Tire size and so on.
I'm planning on hitting the strip for the first time ever. I have a million questions but I'm pacing myself. Lol.

The car will be street/strip.

I haven't weighed the car. It's a '95 GT with power everything and A/C. The hood is fiberglass along with aluminum heads and no smog or cats. That's about all of the weight loss the car has seen. I weigh 195.

In good air; the car has made 400RWHP at 5900. Engine is N/A. No adders.

For now I'm using a stock T5.

Rear gears are 3.73.

Tires are 25.7" Nitto 555R (315/35-17)

My plans are to use Strange 10 way struts and shocks. Coilovers will be used up front.
In the rear; I'll be using stock GT coils cut to my liking.
I have new J&M uppers and lowers.
I'll most likely use relocation brackets in the rear for the lowers as I'll be lowering the car somewhat.
I'll be installing M&H or M/T drag radials. I don't want to run slicks until I decide if I'm going all out.

The reason I posted this question is that I'm second guessing my rear gear choice. I was using 4.10's and swapped them out to 3.73's. Maybe that was a bad move?

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #6 of 51 Old 10-05-2018, 03:00 PM
Registered User
 
Sledger46's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fenton, MO
Posts: 460
If the 400 RWHP is a real number you should be running low 11s or high 10s in the 120-125MPH range (assuming a 3100 lbs race weight). A 4.10/28" tire would work great in that combo.

89 LX hatch, Recycled 347, Canfield 192 heads, Mac 1 3/4 LT, Victor 5.0, CSE cam, AOD, Edge 3800 lockup converter, Lentech VB, 4.10s 255R60-15 MT ET Street Radials 3080 race weight -- 11.13 @ 120.55 MPH (7.05 @ 95.53 MPH 1/8)

08 Honda Ridgeline
17 Fusion Sport, daily driver
Sledger46 is offline  
post #7 of 51 Old 10-05-2018, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sledger46 View Post
If the 400 RWHP is a real number you should be running low 11s or high 10s in the 120-125MPH range (assuming a 3100 lbs race weight). A 4.10/28" tire would work great in that combo.
I'm sure the car weighs a few hundred lbs more going by the delivered weight found in a search. Then add my weight. I'd love to run a 28" tire as it looks much better on a SN95 but it seems that the majority like the 26" tires. Old Grumpy Jenkins use to say that the number one mistake that racers make is running too much tire.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #8 of 51 Old 10-05-2018, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
I found a post where the car was nearly identical to mine with the difference being that I have a fiberglass hood. His car weighs 3300 without him in it.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #9 of 51 Old 10-05-2018, 05:17 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 2,780
Starting line ratio (SLR) and gearing a a bit of a different thing...

There are multiple ways to achieve the same SLR.

In basic terms of rear gear changes. going up numerically in gearing, slows the rotation of the tire down, but increases the torque applied to the tire, and lowering reverses it.

So the hunt for optimal SLR is figuring out YOUR COMBO's ideal wheel speed/torque ratio. There will never be some universal SLR.
TomR likes this.

O.G. X275 racer
1.17 60' [email protected] with the angry peanut!
1.16 60' [email protected] on 1 gun (In testing)
88gtguy is offline  
post #10 of 51 Old 10-05-2018, 05:20 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 2,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saleen414 View Post
The higher (numerically) the ratio, the softer the hit on the tire. Especially in a high torque situation. I run a small 26 X 8.5 tire and found that getting the car to 60' was easier with a 4.10:1 gear than it was with a 3.73:1 rear gear. The taller gear (lower numerically) shocks the tire harder. It is counter intuitive but works. It is leverage at work. Not every car is going to experience this same scenario.There is a lot to be said about having the rear suspension set up right to begin with. If the rear set up is wrong, then it does not matter what gear is in the car, it still is not going to work the way it should.
Not the case... it's only slowing the wheel down. Torque (mechanical advantage) is going up.

TomR likes this.

O.G. X275 racer
1.17 60' [email protected] with the angry peanut!
1.16 60' [email protected] on 1 gun (In testing)
88gtguy is offline  
post #11 of 51 Old 10-07-2018, 07:33 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 163
If you have not bought the drag radials, unless you have an adjustable clutch or clutchtamer, I would get slicks. Radials are not easy to launch with a standard clutch and a 5 speed. Tire type is more important than gear ratio if you have never been to the track.

1987 Coupe: Stock 5.0, T5, 4.10s and a spool
russ3747 is offline  
post #12 of 51 Old 10-07-2018, 08:19 AM
Registered User
 
TomR's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 4,941
Garage
Automatics and sticks are different worlds. The last thing I look at in an auto is starting line ratio. In an auto, the torque converter acts like a hydraulic gear set. It can have in the 2.5 ratio when the stator is locked by the sprags, and as the stator releases and starts to freewheel the torque multiplication falls and input to output RPM ratio drops.

The converter is more important than the SLR at the start.

In a manual, you have engine bog and torque curve, and how well you can drive the clutch, to contend with. SLR is way more important in a stick.

There isn't a thing in the world wrong with a radial until you have a ton of power on poor prep. Then when you get a certain power level you'll see the lower pressures in a slick will help get a more consistent hit and let you bring power in earlier on mediocre prep.

The first thing I look at is stuff the tallest widest tire I can fit that suits my driving and the track prep. Then I set the gear for peak RPM through the traps. Then I see how the car behaves off the line and decide if I have to change the converter, clutch, or low gear. I've had everything from stock to a 8 second 1/4 mile stick and a 7 second auto.

I have a 1.69 low gear right now with a 4.10 rear gear in a single T4 midframe car that has a class legal "76mm" for most races. At 3200 lbs it does a 1.15 60ft on 10.50 28 tall Pro Bracket radials (I've been as low as a 1.13's) and a low 1.2 on stiff wall slicks with tubes. The biggest difference between radials and bias ply slicks is on poor prep where I can run the bias at 10 lbs (until it ruins sidewalls and rubber in 10-15 passes) and run the radial at 13-14. The radial is clearly better down track as it stays flatter and does not knock off like a bias. The bias worse for knocking tires at speed but better on crappy track surface.

If you have a lower power car you won't have any of these issues. Everyone around here that is somewhat fast is pretty much changing to a radial unless prep or track surface is bad. Even stick cars. Everyone real fast is using radials as much as they can unless on some of the rough tracks.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
89 LX. 363, single turbo, Super Vic EFI, TFS high port heads by TEA, solid roller, glide. Holley HP EFI. (exact combo varies)
TomR is offline  
post #13 of 51 Old 10-07-2018, 08:47 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 163
TomR, I am sure you are correct. I have never had bias tires. But I have broken a axle and twisted a driveshaft with a stock motor on radials.

Something has to give clutch slip, tire spin, side wall wrinkle, I wish I had started with slicks and not radials.

I think Radials are for street cars and experienced drag racers, not newbies trying to learn how to go a to b

1987 Coupe: Stock 5.0, T5, 4.10s and a spool
russ3747 is offline  
post #14 of 51 Old 10-07-2018, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by russ3747 View Post
If you have not bought the drag radials, unless you have an adjustable clutch or clutchtamer, I would get slicks. Radials are not easy to launch with a standard clutch and a 5 speed. Tire type is more important than gear ratio if you have never been to the track.
The clutch tamer was suggested to me early on and I plan on trying one. I like the concept.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #15 of 51 Old 10-07-2018, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomR View Post
Automatics and sticks are different worlds. The last thing I look at in an auto is starting line ratio. In an auto, the torque converter acts like a hydraulic gear set. It can have in the 2.5 ratio when the stator is locked by the sprags, and as the stator releases and starts to freewheel the torque multiplication falls and input to output RPM ratio drops.

The converter is more important than the SLR at the start.

In a manual, you have engine bog and torque curve, and how well you can drive the clutch, to contend with. SLR is way more important in a stick.

There isn't a thing in the world wrong with a radial until you have a ton of power on poor prep. Then when you get a certain power level you'll see the lower pressures in a slick will help get a more consistent hit and let you bring power in earlier on mediocre prep.

The first thing I look at is stuff the tallest widest tire I can fit that suits my driving and the track prep. Then I set the gear for peak RPM through the traps. Then I see how the car behaves off the line and decide if I have to change the converter, clutch, or low gear. I've had everything from stock to a 8 second 1/4 mile stick and a 7 second auto.

I have a 1.69 low gear right now with a 4.10 rear gear in a single T4 midframe car that has a class legal "76mm" for most races. At 3200 lbs it does a 1.15 60ft on 10.50 28 tall Pro Bracket radials (I've been as low as a 1.13's) and a low 1.2 on stiff wall slicks with tubes. The biggest difference between radials and bias ply slicks is on poor prep where I can run the bias at 10 lbs (until it ruins sidewalls and rubber in 10-15 passes) and run the radial at 13-14. The radial is clearly better down track as it stays flatter and does not knock off like a bias. The bias worse for knocking tires at speed but better on crappy track surface.

If you have a lower power car you won't have any of these issues. Everyone around here that is somewhat fast is pretty much changing to a radial unless prep or track surface is bad. Even stick cars. Everyone real fast is using radials as much as they can unless on some of the rough tracks.
Thanks for the great reply; Tom.
I'm curious; would you run the tallest and widest tire on my car? I think I'd have to run 4.56 gears to hit the trap at 5900 with a 28" tire.
I like the challenge of running drag radials with a stick and many guys do just that.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #16 of 51 Old 10-07-2018, 02:34 PM
Registered User
 
Str8ballar's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hattiesburg MS
Posts: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
I'm planning on hitting the strip for the first time ever. I have a million questions but I'm pacing myself. Lol.

The car will be street/strip.

I haven't weighed the car. It's a '95 GT with power everything and A/C. The hood is fiberglass along with aluminum heads and no smog or cats. That's about all of the weight loss the car has seen. I weigh 195.

In good air; the car has made 400RWHP at 5900. Engine is N/A. No adders.

For now I'm using a stock T5.

Rear gears are 3.73.

Tires are 25.7" Nitto 555R (315/35-17)

My plans are to use Strange 10 way struts and shocks. Coilovers will be used up front.
In the rear; I'll be using stock GT coils cut to my liking.
I have new J&M uppers and lowers.
I'll most likely use relocation brackets in the rear for the lowers as I'll be lowering the car somewhat.
I'll be installing M&H or M/T drag radials. I don't want to run slicks until I decide if I'm going all out.

The reason I posted this question is that I'm second guessing my rear gear choice. I was using 4.10's and swapped them out to 3.73's. Maybe that was a bad move?
I just went to a 315/35-17 MT on my car going to make a pass in the next few weeks but can only help a little till I see the difference than my slicks. I did run radials 15 years ago on another car.

Car is a street car so less gear is better for the street.

Now as far as track like has been said its all about what you trap. You want to be just falling off max HP in fourth gear when you trap.

I am on a 26in tire running a T5 with 331 gears running 11.3s but the 331s are perfect for trapping just right at a 10.9-10.8 pass and thats my goal. Also being its a 95% street car the 331s work great. 3,360 race weight.

BTW get ready to buy a T5 on radials it want last long unless you are very easy on it at the track.

93 cobra Dart 363 11r205 heads T-56 Magnum 2.66 cobra intake 3in shorties 3in out the back
Latest build
https://forums.corral.net/forums/member-build-up-projects/2484040-93-cobra-363ci-5speed-build.html
Str8ballar is online now  
post #17 of 51 Old 10-07-2018, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8ballar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
I'm planning on hitting the strip for the first time ever. I have a million questions but I'm pacing myself. Lol.

The car will be street/strip.

I haven't weighed the car. It's a '95 GT with power everything and A/C. The hood is fiberglass along with aluminum heads and no smog or cats. That's about all of the weight loss the car has seen. I weigh 195.

In good air; the car has made 400RWHP at 5900. Engine is N/A. No adders.

For now I'm using a stock T5.

Rear gears are 3.73.

Tires are 25.7" Nitto 555R (315/35-17)

My plans are to use Strange 10 way struts and shocks. Coilovers will be used up front.
In the rear; I'll be using stock GT coils cut to my liking.
I have new J&M uppers and lowers.
I'll most likely use relocation brackets in the rear for the lowers as I'll be lowering the car somewhat.
I'll be installing M&H or M/T drag radials. I don't want to run slicks until I decide if I'm going all out.

The reason I posted this question is that I'm second guessing my rear gear choice. I was using 4.10's and swapped them out to 3.73's. Maybe that was a bad move?
I just went to a 315/35-17 MT on my car going to make a pass in the next few weeks but can only help a little till I see the difference than my slicks. I did run radials 15 years ago on another car.

Car is a street car so less gear is better for the street.

Now as far as track like has been said its all about what you trap. You want to be just falling off max HP in fourth gear when you trap.

I am on a 26in tire running a T5 with 331 gears running 11.3s but the 331s are perfect for trapping just right at a 10.9-10.8 pass and thats my goal. Also being its a 95% street car the 331s work great. 3,360 race weight.

BTW get ready to buy a T5 on radials it want last long unless you are very easy on it at the track.
Wow! 331 gears? Are you boosted? I take it that your current M/T tires are bias ply?

In an ideal world; I'd love to run one set of tires for street and track. I may not even like racing. I guess in reality; I'm looking to play on a budget until I know which direction I'm headed.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #18 of 51 Old 10-07-2018, 05:57 PM
Registered User
 
Str8ballar's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hattiesburg MS
Posts: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
Wow! 331 gears? Are you boosted? I take it that your current M/T tires are bias ply?

In an ideal world; I'd love to run one set of tires for street and track. I may not even like racing. I guess in reality; I'm looking to play on a budget until I know which direction I'm headed.

At first I was running 308s, On Nitrous, They are the S/Ss.

I drive it like a daily but I have a few other cars/toys so It gets like 10-15k miles a year. I don't drive it in the rain unless I just have to.

If you go to the track setup on that light and go you will love it. No need for drugs thats all the drug you will ever need.

My build if you just want to see more info I will be post info on how the S/Ss do at the track soon.
https://forums.corral.net/forums/mem...t40-heads.html

93 cobra Dart 363 11r205 heads T-56 Magnum 2.66 cobra intake 3in shorties 3in out the back
Latest build
https://forums.corral.net/forums/member-build-up-projects/2484040-93-cobra-363ci-5speed-build.html
Str8ballar is online now  
post #19 of 51 Old 10-07-2018, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8ballar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
Wow! 331 gears? Are you boosted? I take it that your current M/T tires are bias ply?

In an ideal world; I'd love to run one set of tires for street and track. I may not even like racing. I guess in reality; I'm looking to play on a budget until I know which direction I'm headed.

At first I was running 308s, On Nitrous, They are the S/Ss.

I drive it like a daily but I have a few other cars/toys so It gets like 10-15k miles a year. I don't drive it in the rain unless I just have to.

If you go to the track setup on that light and go you will love it. No need for drugs thats all the drug you will ever need.

My build if you just want to see more info I will be post info on how the S/Ss do at the track soon.
https://forums.corral.net/forums/mem...t40-heads.html
Like you, my car is a toy. It has 70k original miles.

I think you're right about getting hooked on racing. The only thing I fear is breakage. Who doesn't? Lol.
Guys complain that they can only get a few runs in on tune nights. At that rate; it will take a year to get things sorted out.

Good for you on pushing the nitrous envelope. That juice scares me. My buddy is trying to sell me a small NEX dry kit. Let's see, suspension, tires, nitrous, timing regard box, two step, clutch tamer....$$$$$$
Str8ballar likes this.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #20 of 51 Old 10-08-2018, 08:43 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (11)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: south, us
Posts: 2,918
Spent the weekend at the track....'57 Chevy with radials. Had bias slicks on it previously. 29x10.5.

The radials suck. No matter what we did to the car as far as the chassis & suspension, it didn't like the radials. Not at all. I drove back home in the truck (about 60 miles), got the bias slicks, bolted them back on and was .13 quicker in the 60 without a single other change. And MUCH more consistent (bracket racin').

So the statement that radial cars are faster/better on radials isn't entirely true. May be on a car that's newer and on a better chassis/suspension but on this older build, not so much.

I don't see a need for radials unless dictated by the rules of the class you're running.

Starting line ratio is a TOOL that one uses to help adjust the launch. Basically, the lower the horsepower, the higher numerically (9.00+) you can get away with on the SLR. With lower power, the mechanical advantage offered by numerically higher SLR helps get the car rolling sooner. AND...it's not entirely true that a numerically higher SLR hits the tires "softer". The initial hit is harder but it falls off quickly as RPM and speed build. The more power it's got the more likely the car is to wheel stand or spin with a higher SLR. BUT...again...it all depends on the car. Turbocharged cars "like" to have the turbo(s) loaded initially and they can get away with a numerically lower rear gear and work quite well, but a N/A car of the same horsepower level may not "like" it at all. Has everything to do with the entire combination and not as much to do with internet hearsay, and in the end, there's no substitute for test & tune at the track to see what your setup "likes". Ever wonder why there's so many used parts for sale?

'92GT, 427" and '93 "LXVO" coupe
toddturbo is offline  
post #21 of 51 Old 10-08-2018, 10:29 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 163
If I were you I would take it as it sits to a tnt night. Drive it like you are on the Blvd. Trying to out run the guy next to you. You don't need any of that stuff your first time out most tracks have a night they welcome street cars.

1987 Coupe: Stock 5.0, T5, 4.10s and a spool
russ3747 is offline  
post #22 of 51 Old 10-08-2018, 12:18 PM
Registered User
 
SRTthis798's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (15)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddturbo View Post
Spent the weekend at the track....'57 Chevy with radials. Had bias slicks on it previously. 29x10.5.

The radials suck. No matter what we did to the car as far as the chassis & suspension, it didn't like the radials. Not at all. I drove back home in the truck (about 60 miles), got the bias slicks, bolted them back on and was .13 quicker in the 60 without a single other change. And MUCH more consistent (bracket racin').

So the statement that radial cars are faster/better on radials isn't entirely true. May be on a car that's newer and on a better chassis/suspension but on this older build, not so much.

I don't see a need for radials unless dictated by the rules of the class you're running.
radials are hands down a faster tire... just look what has happen to outlaw 10.5 now that teams are running the new 315 pro. the class record has been in the mid 3.90s for the last few years. this year few teams switched to a radial and the record is 3.79 after about 4 races with them on.

the trick is figuring out how to make them work. hell right now in X275 for the last few years leaf spring cars have out 60'ed everyone by a few numbers.

DT Racing and Fabrication

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Crew Chief
Roche Racing engines Billet headed windsor! BMF on 275s!
my car-88lx- 408" stock block gangster!!!
SRTthis798 is offline  
post #23 of 51 Old 10-08-2018, 03:32 PM
Registered User
 
cleanLX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Phoenix AZ. by way of Fredericton, NB, Canada
Posts: 1,646
I'm guessing you are headed to Wild Horse for test and tune.
Track prep will be shoddy, a bias will absolutely work better there for your power/weight/car build.
With drag radials, at WH, you will either hook and bog (great way to break parts), or spin like mad.
Radials do not recover well from a spin... run ruined.
Get a set of DOT bias, some like the new MT ET Street, others like the Hoosier QTP. Thow them on at the house, drive to the track, make some runs, drive home.
Swapping tires at the track sucks, and, at WH the spectators park in the pits, so, stuff(wheels/tires/jacks/tools) can walk away.
Between the shoddy track prep and our air, you are not going to run bottom 11's, much less 10's with 400hp/3500lbs.
These October mine shaft east coast guys like to thow ET on the table like it's free...
I would prefer your previous 4.10's in your car, but, unless you want to chase every last .00x then you'll have lots of fun with the 3.73's.
And, thow away your first couple runs... I mean, you want to spin... run 14-16psi and launch that thing at 5500-6000... spinning doesn't break parts like bogging does.
The ET Street bias actually hooks pretty good while spinning... I can launch at 6500rpm with 4.56's and spin all through 1st and still cut mid/low 60's... for a full weight street car with no power that's not too bad.
some really rusty/bad driving there but, spinning all through 1st, still went low 1.6... spin like that on radials and you'll return a 2.3 or worse 60's.
I always start hard, dial back, and just about the time I'm getting it dialed in they stop looking after the track and it falls apart. .
Gotta love WH.

Mike H.
Duffee 306 and E7te's, Buddy Rawls cam. 368rwhp/363rwtq.
cleanLX is offline  
post #24 of 51 Old 10-08-2018, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanLX View Post
I'm guessing you are headed to Wild Horse for test and tune.
Track prep will be shoddy, a bias will absolutely work better there for your power/weight/car build.
With drag radials, at WH, you will either hook and bog (great way to break parts), or spin like mad.
Radials do not recover well from a spin... run ruined.
Get a set of DOT bias, some like the new MT ET Street, others like the Hoosier QTP. Thow them on at the house, drive to the track, make some runs, drive home.
Swapping tires at the track sucks, and, at WH the spectators park in the pits, so, stuff(wheels/tires/jacks/tools) can walk away.
Between the shoddy track prep and our air, you are not going to run bottom 11's, much less 10's with 400hp/3500lbs.
These October mine shaft east coast guys like to thow ET on the table like it's free...
I would prefer your previous 4.10's in your car, but, unless you want to chase every last .00x then you'll have lots of fun with the 3.73's.
And, thow away your first couple runs... I mean, you want to spin... run 14-16psi and launch that thing at 5500-6000... spinning doesn't break parts like bogging does.
The ET Street bias actually hooks pretty good while spinning... I can launch at 6500rpm with 4.56's and spin all through 1st and still cut mid/low 60's... for a full weight street car with no power that's not too bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PhOYv7vqto
some really rusty/bad driving there but, spinning all through 1st, still went low 1.6... spin like that on radials and you'll return a 2.3 or worse 60's.
I always start hard, dial back, and just about the time I'm getting it dialed in they stop looking after the track and it falls apart. .
Gotta love WH.
Hi Mike. I was hoping that you'd chime in. I have heard that WH has poor track prep and the track goes away fairly soon. How the heck do you drive on bias DOT's? Aren't they squirrely? Especially if your fronts are radials. I'm out by New River so it's a long drive to the track. It really makes me miss Speedworld and their crappy prep. LOL.
I have a good sense of humor so I'm looking forward to having fun. Thanks for the reply.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #25 of 51 Old 10-08-2018, 06:42 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Under the hood
Posts: 216
http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/startlineratio.html

After that go to the next calc. (distance)
If I remember correctly ? you are.
3.73
3.35 1st
5900
26'' tire
I am
3.73
2.66 1st.
6400
28''
Quite a contrast for the same rear gear. 30 v 70 feet.

427 T56 3.90 2 kits
JB Books is online now  
post #26 of 51 Old 10-08-2018, 07:03 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 2,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRTthis798 View Post
radials are hands down a faster tire... just look what has happen to outlaw 10.5 now that teams are running the new 315 pro. the class record has been in the mid 3.90s for the last few years. this year few teams switched to a radial and the record is 3.79 after about 4 races with them on.

the trick is figuring out how to make them work. hell right now in X275 for the last few years leaf spring cars have out 60'ed everyone by a few numbers.
You shut your whore mouth!!!

O.G. X275 racer
1.17 60' [email protected] with the angry peanut!
1.16 60' [email protected] on 1 gun (In testing)
88gtguy is offline  
post #27 of 51 Old 10-09-2018, 07:19 AM
Registered User
 
SRTthis798's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (15)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by 88gtguy View Post
You shut your whore mouth!!!
when you coming back to play in the shark tank?

DT Racing and Fabrication

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Crew Chief
Roche Racing engines Billet headed windsor! BMF on 275s!
my car-88lx- 408" stock block gangster!!!
SRTthis798 is offline  
post #28 of 51 Old 10-09-2018, 09:55 AM
Registered User
 
cleanLX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Phoenix AZ. by way of Fredericton, NB, Canada
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
Hi Mike. I was hoping that you'd chime in. I have heard that WH has poor track prep and the track goes away fairly soon. How the heck do you drive on bias DOT's? Aren't they squirrely? Especially if your fronts are radials. I'm out by New River so it's a long drive to the track. It really makes me miss Speedworld and their crappy prep. LOL.
I have a good sense of humor so I'm looking forward to having fun. Thanks for the reply.
I used to drive to Speedworld from the house, 50 miles... you've got another 10 miles on me going to WH from New River.
Ran ~26psi in the EtStreets and ~35 in the radials up front.
No issues. But, I simply drive when on the street, there was no fast-and-furious bs, nor was I running along at 110mph. Simply driving.
I also didn't notice the "sway" on the strip that everyone warns of. As low as 11.5psi in the rear and 45psi up front. But, that was when the car was running 104mph on 100% stock/original suspension. I do now run bias front runners, but that was for weight/rolling not to fix a scary dynamic.
Maybe if my car had a tone of weight transfer and no swaybars like the old school 0.25cent K-Mart-Pony-Rides from back in the day it would exhibit these tendencies... or maybe if it was a 130+mph car... but it is neither... it's a tight street car that runs 113-115mph.
Hit up Tbirdz (forget his nick name, you know, the guy with the sleeper Maverick) as I'm quite certain he is running DOT bias out back, think he might be up over 120mph as well and he's 5spd and running at WH... and driving to and from the track.
If you though SpeedWorld had bad prep., you are in for a whole new experience.
When are you going? Maybe I'll dust off the Mouse.

Mike H.
Duffee 306 and E7te's, Buddy Rawls cam. 368rwhp/363rwtq.
cleanLX is offline  
post #29 of 51 Old 10-09-2018, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanLX View Post
I used to drive to Speedworld from the house, 50 miles... you've got another 10 miles on me going to WH from New River.
Ran ~26psi in the EtStreets and ~35 in the radials up front.
No issues. But, I simply drive when on the street, there was no fast-and-furious bs, nor was I running along at 110mph. Simply driving.
I also didn't notice the "sway" on the strip that everyone warns of. As low as 11.5psi in the rear and 45psi up front. But, that was when the car was running 104mph on 100% stock/original suspension. I do now run bias front runners, but that was for weight/rolling not to fix a scary dynamic.
Maybe if my car had a tone of weight transfer and no swaybars like the old school 0.25cent K-Mart-Pony-Rides from back in the day it would exhibit these tendencies... or maybe if it was a 130+mph car... but it is neither... it's a tight street car that runs 113-115mph.
Hit up Tbirdz (forget his nick name, you know, the guy with the sleeper Maverick) as I'm quite certain he is running DOT bias out back, think he might be up over 120mph as well and he's 5spd and running at WH... and driving to and from the track.
If you though SpeedWorld had bad prep., you are in for a whole new experience.
When are you going? Maybe I'll dust off the Mouse.
I'll be sure to let you know when I head to the track. I need to order tires, wheels and suspension and get it installed first. What tire and rim size are you running out back?

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #30 of 51 Old 10-09-2018, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Books View Post
http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/startlineratio.html

After that go to the next calc. (distance)
If I remember correctly ? you are.
3.73
3.35 1st
5900
26'' tire
I am
3.73
2.66 1st.
6400
28''
Quite a contrast for the same rear gear. 30 v 70 feet.
You are correct. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out now.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #31 of 51 Old 10-09-2018, 06:48 PM
Registered User
 
cleanLX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Phoenix AZ. by way of Fredericton, NB, Canada
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
I'll be sure to let you know when I head to the track. I need to order tires, wheels and suspension and get it installed first. What tire and rim size are you running out back?
Classic old Weld Draglites, 15x8 with 26x10.5-15 Et Street SS bias and 15x4 with 26x4.5-15 Et Fronts.
Nothing fancy, and, I should have gotten a 9 or 10" wide rear wheel (from what I read), but, not going to spend more $ at this point.
I was set on Bogarts, but, wanted to be able to drive to the track... all the fancy welds were 5 bolt...

Miscellaneous ramblings...
I wouldn't worry too much about the suspension bits... "just to go have fun" ...
When mine was 100% stock suspension/weight/power it was cutting 1.69's at Speedworld, 1.72's at Fire Bird (WH)... on DOT's (yes, original factory installed bushings even)
It still a real basic setup and goes 1.62's with stock K member/springs some control arms and old school Lakewood shocks. There's definitely 1.5's in it with a prep'd track and I've yet to fiddle with ride height, IC... still running the stock rear sway bar. A set of true slicks and it'd be even quicker, but, I drive it to the track.
What I'm getting at is, that a set of tires will be enough to snap axles and put the hurt on the T5... no need to over think it.
If you want to get serious about chasing every .00x in the 60-330' and want the ability to chase the track, sure, but, for a Friday night test and tune street orientated car you might be introducing more adjustment/ability than you'll be able to dial in (or even feel like jacking around with) on an evening where 5 runs is a lot... and some of those will be following a radial car that just drug water up to the line and you have to launch out of the groove anyways... while other runs you will be following 10-12 cars on slicks that just made for a decent starting line...
Lots of guys touting the suspension are running at organized tracks/events where the above BS doesn't take place, and the suspension will pay dividends...
We can go to the line and it be hot and sticky... or damp... or all the rubber missing and nothing but grey showing... not going to dial suspension after a run through the waterbox and as you are seeing the launch pad for the first time in over an hour.
Friend had a 5.0 Capri with Jegs control arms, Lakewood shocks, 1 air bag and 4cylinder springs up front... thing went low 1.3's (like 1.30's-1.31's) like clockwork and dipped into the high 1.2x's on occasion on a 27" Hoosier QTP with a 330hp 306 and a 125shot... on test and tune nights.
Anyways... at test and tune nights around here, one run you'll be slipping the clutch out from 3500rpm off line and on the grey to avoid the damp, next run you be letting it fly from 6500rpm in the shiny sticky stuff...
Proper suspension is never going to hurt you, but on a test and tune night around here, it's more about reading the track and dialing in launch rpm/slip...
That's my .02

Where's Tbirdz?

Mike H.
Duffee 306 and E7te's, Buddy Rawls cam. 368rwhp/363rwtq.
cleanLX is offline  
post #32 of 51 Old 10-09-2018, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanLX View Post
Classic old Weld Draglites, 15x8 with 26x10.5-15 Et Street SS bias and 15x4 with 26x4.5-15 Et Fronts.
Nothing fancy, and, I should have gotten a 9 or 10" wide rear wheel (from what I read), but, not going to spend more $ at this point.
I was set on Bogarts, but, wanted to be able to drive to the track... all the fancy welds were 5 bolt...

Miscellaneous ramblings...
I wouldn't worry too much about the suspension bits... "just to go have fun" ...
When mine was 100% stock suspension/weight/power it was cutting 1.69's at Speedworld, 1.72's at Fire Bird (WH)... on DOT's (yes, original factory installed bushings even)
It still a real basic setup and goes 1.62's with stock K member/springs some control arms and old school Lakewood shocks. There's definitely 1.5's in it with a prep'd track and I've yet to fiddle with ride height, IC... still running the stock rear sway bar. A set of true slicks and it'd be even quicker, but, I drive it to the track.
What I'm getting at is, that a set of tires will be enough to snap axles and put the hurt on the T5... no need to over think it.
If you want to get serious about chasing every .00x in the 60-330' and want the ability to chase the track, sure, but, for a Friday night test and tune street orientated car you might be introducing more adjustment/ability than you'll be able to dial in (or even feel like jacking around with) on an evening where 5 runs is a lot... and some of those will be following a radial car that just drug water up to the line and you have to launch out of the groove anyways... while other runs you will be following 10-12 cars on slicks that just made for a decent starting line...
Lots of guys touting the suspension are running at organized tracks/events where the above BS doesn't take place, and the suspension will pay dividends...
We can go to the line and it be hot and sticky... or damp... or all the rubber missing and nothing but grey showing... not going to dial suspension after a run through the waterbox and as you are seeing the launch pad for the first time in over an hour.
Friend had a 5.0 Capri with Jegs control arms, Lakewood shocks, 1 air bag and 4cylinder springs up front... thing went low 1.3's (like 1.30's-1.31's) like clockwork and dipped into the high 1.2x's on occasion on a 27" Hoosier QTP with a 330hp 306 and a 125shot... on test and tune nights.
Anyways... at test and tune nights around here, one run you'll be slipping the clutch out from 3500rpm off line and on the grey to avoid the damp, next run you be letting it fly from 6500rpm in the shiny sticky stuff...
Proper suspension is never going to hurt you, but on a test and tune night around here, it's more about reading the track and dialing in launch rpm/slip...
That's my .02

Where's Tbirdz?
As long as I don't hit the wall; I'll be happy! Classic car insurance frowns on such nonsense. My son wants to run his car too so we'll have to agree on a day. He's really going to be upset as he just bought M&H Racemasters.
We went to Speedworld one day years ago to watch the nostalgia drags. 3 cars in a row flipped on their lids in the left lane. These were high dollar, historical drag cars to boot. The show was shut down due to poor track prep. You'd think in AZ, where we can race practically year around, that we'd have better run facilities. How is Tucson?

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #33 of 51 Old 10-09-2018, 08:20 PM
Registered User
 
cleanLX's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Phoenix AZ. by way of Fredericton, NB, Canada
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
How is Tucson?
Only times I've ran Tucson was on private rental (local club rents the track 3 - 4 times a year)... with big HP street cars on "stock/ish" rear-ends...
Track prep was favoring spin in the first 25-30 feet with hook from there out to preserve all the 700-2000+hp camero's vett's, caddys on dr's w/o a rear that could take a launch.
Problem there (on top of that) is the 5000 plus foot d/a.
Ran a best there of 12.404/110mph spinning 3/4's of first and with d/a of 5800'.
Do that in October on the east coast in a mine shaft and it's a low 11 at 120.

When my car was bone stock (ok, 3.73's off-road H and 235 dr's... otherwise as Ford built it) it went consistent 13.2's at 100.xx on the northeast coast on a well run/prep'd track.
I moved to Phoenix and struggled to run 13.9's at 95.... exact same car/setup/launch.
With clutch obliterating launches I eventually got into the high 13.7's at 96... then had to buy a clutch... and went bias tire...
Don't get your hopes up looking at fast times set by cars running anywhere but here... maybe Denver or Lubbrock...
Cars like yours setting great times in Englishtown or Miramichi... add 0.7+ and your doing good.
It's still a great deal of fun... just don't expect to set internet records.

Mike H.
Duffee 306 and E7te's, Buddy Rawls cam. 368rwhp/363rwtq.
cleanLX is offline  
post #34 of 51 Old 10-09-2018, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanLX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
How is Tucson?
Only times I've ran Tucsan was on private rental (local club rents the track 3 - 4 times a year)... with big HP street cars on "stock/ish" rear-ends...
Track prep was favoring spin in the first 25-30 feet with hook from there out to preserve all the 700-2000+hp camero's vett's, caddys on dr's w/o a rear that could take a launch.
Problem there (on top of that) is the 5000 plus foot d/a.
Ran a best there of 12.404/110mph spinning 3/4's of first and with d/a of 5800'.
Do that in October on the east coast in a mine shaft and it's a low 11 at 120.

When my car was bone stock (ok, 3.73's off-road H and 235 dr's... otherwise as Ford built it) it went consistent 13.2's at 100.xx on the northeast coast on a well run/prep'd track.
I moved to Phoenix and struggled to run 13.9's at 95.... exact same car/setup/launch.
With clutch obliterating launches I eventually got into the high 13.7's at 96... then had to buy a clutch... and went bias tire...
Don't get your hopes up looking at fast times set by cars running anywhere but here... maybe Denver or Lubbrock...
Cars like yours setting great times in Englishtown or Miramichi... add 0.7+ and your doing good.
It's still a great deal of fun... just don't expect to set internet records.
I better add boost and a Power Glide. &#x1f601; I can see the dollars adding up already.

CHP/CPR (Coast High Performance) / (Custom Performance Racing Engines)347 lasted a whopping 500 miles due to poor machining, metal debris in main bearings, damaged cam bearing and a balance job that was off 64ozs!
Buyer Beware.
fasterthangas is offline  
post #35 of 51 Old 10-09-2018, 10:45 PM
Registered User
 
TomR's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 4,941
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthangas View Post
Thanks for the great reply; Tom.
I'm curious; would you run the tallest and widest tire on my car? I think I'd have to run 4.56 gears to hit the trap at 5900 with a 28" tire.
I like the challenge of running drag radials with a stick and many guys do just that.
I see now your car is a modest power stick shift and a 95.

That's a lot different than my turbo Fox.

I wouldn't even guess what you car behaves like. I ran a stick in many Fox bodies, from stock 14 second cars to one that was back halved and ran high 8's in the 1/4. But my chassis was different than yours.

I always like a lot of 1st gear with sticks. A steep 1st gear makes it easier to launch. I never had too much 1st gear ratio, but I sure had transmissions with too little ratio.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
89 LX. 363, single turbo, Super Vic EFI, TFS high port heads by TEA, solid roller, glide. Holley HP EFI. (exact combo varies)
TomR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vacuum line help - 302 dummy76 5.0/5.8 Engine Tech 2 06-06-2015 09:54 PM
1988 5.0 EGR line cracked in 2 places should I replace whole line with connectors? Mercedez L. 5.0/5.8 Engine Tech 12 11-01-2012 11:48 PM
JBA headers and A/C line relocation? JR97COBRA GT & SOHC 7 12-03-2001 01:58 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome