Only running a 13.8 ?!? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 28 Old 03-04-2018, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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Only running a 13.8 ?!?

Hello there went to the track the other day and my current setup only managed to scrap a 13.8 down the 1/4 but I know the car should be considerably faster, but why is the car not running to its fuel potenal? Is this just a crap combo? Any input would be very much appreciated

Current setup: GT40 intake, CAI, 70mm TB, TFS 170 heads (61cc chamber), 1.6 TFS RR (3/8 a turn of preload on lifters) TFS track max (stage 1) Cam, HD clutch, aluminum DS, 3.73 gears, 255 LPH fuel pump

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post #2 of 28 Old 03-04-2018, 09:35 PM
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what do you think it should be running?


1993 Mustang LX Coupe H/C/I 306/T5/IRS
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post #3 of 28 Old 03-04-2018, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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Low 13s at least especially with the heads on the motor
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post #4 of 28 Old 03-04-2018, 10:46 PM
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Need more info. 13.8's on street tires cutting a 60' in the 2.0 range, or 13.8's cutting a 1.50 60'ft, they are very different.

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post #5 of 28 Old 03-05-2018, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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The car managed a 1.8 60ft on street tires I canít remeber exact numbers but i think it was around 100mph
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post #6 of 28 Old 03-05-2018, 07:17 AM Thread Starter
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For the 13.8 pass that was the 1.8 60ft so far itís the best time the car has gotten
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post #7 of 28 Old 03-05-2018, 09:04 AM
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What kid of suspension work has been done to the car? Any idea on weight? Elevation? If you're only trapping 100mph it sounds like something is off.
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post #8 of 28 Old 03-05-2018, 11:03 AM
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100 mph seems about right for a 13.8 pass. And a 1.8x 60' time is very respectable for a street tires, or slipping the clutch with stickies.

I would think the car is capable of mid-to-low 13s with the mods, realistically, on street tires. I'm guessing you should be making around 270 hp at the flywheel. It seems to me like you are down on power.
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post #9 of 28 Old 03-05-2018, 11:04 AM
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When my 87 was bone stock, w/ 5 spd and 3.08's, it ran 13.95 @97 on the stock Gatorbacks, in good air. 60' was 2.0x.

Lots of things to look for. Cam in right? Ignition timing good?

'87, 105,000 mile stk short, SN89 Paxton 5 LBS, X303 Hds, E303, Cobra Int, 70 mm TB, 30# injrs, 1 5/8 full leng, no cats, 2 1/2 w/dumps, A5, 3.73, ET R's, Frnt Drag Eibach sprngs, Baseline Relocated upprs, HPM lwr arms, stk rear sprngs 1 coil cut, adj. struts shocks, 3150 w/dr. 1.60 11.39 118.
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post #10 of 28 Old 03-05-2018, 01:19 PM
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I 100% agree the mph sounds right for the et. Especially with street tires (with the right tire/suspension it could be a low-mid 13)

Not knowing anything else about his car/setup/location it's a wild guess but I would think his engine combo should be trapping slightly faster than 100mph in your average fox body assuming it's healthy and tuned properly.

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post #11 of 28 Old 03-05-2018, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SpeedThrills View Post
When my 87 was bone stock, w/ 5 spd and 3.08's, it ran 13.95 @97 on the stock Gatorbacks, in good air. 60' was 2.0x.

Lots of things to look for. Cam in right? Ignition timing good?
I was thinking the same thing about the ignition timing. I would double check that. I had a friend who had a H/C/I 302. It ran [email protected] Of course we thought the same thing. That it was down on power. We went back and checked the timing. Initial timing was 0. Put it at 14 and it ran [email protected] It definitely sounds like your are missing some power.

1990 Mustang GT AD Performance 408 SBF Trick Flow 11R 190 Heads, FTI Custom Cam, Super Victor EFI, 42# Injectors, 1,000 CFM 4150 Throttle Body, 10.5:1 Compression
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521 rwhp 463 rwtq
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post #12 of 28 Old 03-05-2018, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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Appreciate the input guys! But the suspension is very simple stock up front, and white line upper and lower control arms on the rear with strange 10 way shocks. The track I go to is a little over 1000 feet that day it ran a 13.8 was about 90+ out with the track temps around 110 so heat was a big problem at the time to my knowledge the cam was installed properly will be double checking that tho since a rocker keeps managing to come loose over time? ? but timing could okay a factor I just slapped the new harmonic balencer on and called it a day didnít really think about the way itís oriented with the timing marks on the balencer! Iíll double check timing and see but it should be around 11-12 right now just timing it off idle
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post #13 of 28 Old 03-06-2018, 11:19 AM
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Remove the spout connector before you check the timing.

'87, 105,000 mile stk short, SN89 Paxton 5 LBS, X303 Hds, E303, Cobra Int, 70 mm TB, 30# injrs, 1 5/8 full leng, no cats, 2 1/2 w/dumps, A5, 3.73, ET R's, Frnt Drag Eibach sprngs, Baseline Relocated upprs, HPM lwr arms, stk rear sprngs 1 coil cut, adj. struts shocks, 3150 w/dr. 1.60 11.39 118.
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post #14 of 28 Old 03-06-2018, 11:50 AM
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Something is off for sure.

Back in the day I had a 1990 GT convertible with T5. It was a totally stock, full weight car to which I added 1.72 rockers, a B303, 1 5/8" shorty headers and a full 2.5" cat-less exhaust. Suspension was stock except a pinion snubber. Rolling stock was Draglites in 4" and 8" widths. 275/50R15 drag radials. I never believed in tricks to run numbers so I ran it as it rolled the streets. Spare in the trunk, no icing the intake, no short belt, etc...

I ran many 13.8's and 13.9's at 98-99 mph. So very many. One day I ran a 13.78 at 100 mph. Fastest and quickest it ever went. Still never did the 60' in less than 2.xx something.

That car was heavy, all things considered. I would think you could/should be a half second quicker with a couple more mph to boot.
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post #15 of 28 Old 03-07-2018, 06:38 AM Thread Starter
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Exactly why Iím confused as to why I ran the number I did itís very confusing Iíll be double checking the timing marks on the balencer and timing the car to see but still no idea
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post #16 of 28 Old 03-10-2018, 10:58 AM
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what RPM and how are you shifting?
Seat time will help out once you make sure your power issues are checked and sorted. I was able to shave nearly a second off my best ET on a new set up with a full day at an empty track test and tune. made 20+ passes and went over each time slip and made notes on launch RPM, shift points and anything I may have changed from one pass to the next. Once I got 3 passes with times that were very close I would make another change and make more notes.

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86 Gt T-top 5.0 5spd, That one day project.
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post #17 of 28 Old 03-11-2018, 11:43 AM
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Car has the capability of running 12s with that motor. Sounds like you have multiple issues. I would start by buying a pair of 26x8 drag slicks. No need to waste money on suspension parts with no more motor than what you have. Slicks are the great equalizer. Once you know the car can't spin the tires, then you can start looking into other problems.
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post #18 of 28 Old 03-11-2018, 10:59 PM
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I had a 92 with 373's, big and littles, an off road H-pipe, cold air kit, and some weight loss. It ran 12.9's and never had a valve cover off. You need tires more than anything I think. I would also play around with the shift points to find the best spot. My stock engine got shifted at 5000. Any more or less made a big et difference.
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post #19 of 28 Old 03-12-2018, 08:23 AM
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One of the things that I noticed on mine when I had it was that the timing was WAY too far advanced. The engine "liked" 32 degrees total timing; however the A9L's stock timing table, with 10 deg base, was running closer to 40 deg at full throttle. In my experience, once you start getting over about 34 degrees with aftermarket heads, the ET and MPH fall off-on mine, about .3 slower at 38 degrees. At the track, I'd pull the base timing back to zero to 2 BTDC, and it'd pick up a bunch. I don't know of the TW 170's are as sensitive as the AFR165's were, but it's worth considering. It may be advantageous to have it tuned on a dyno if the budget permits.
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post #20 of 28 Old 03-12-2018, 02:59 PM
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100mph is very low for those heads, cam and intake, so i'm gonna guess that it hasn't been on the dyno or at the very least you don't have a wideband?

what maf?

what injectors?

what intake tube?

what tb?

what's the full exhaust made up of?

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post #21 of 28 Old 03-29-2018, 12:52 PM
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Maybe I missed it... but what does the car weigh?

Can you get to a chassis dyno to see what its putting down and try some tuning? My last two trips with diff motors picked up 30 rwhp just due to jetting..

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post #22 of 28 Old 03-29-2018, 01:25 PM
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Be sure you check the timing with the spout connector out (as mentioned). If you don't, that would explain your time/mph. Checking the marks with a piston stop is a good idea; mine was 3 degrees off. Otherwise, unless the AFR is out to lunch it could be shifting. Do you have video of a pass? That would prove immensely helpful. Also, what was the weather like during the pass? Elevation? That could cost significant ET. Running at 3,000 feet in 90 degree temps would do it too.

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'84 LTD LX - 9.83 at 140.09. Whippled 365 SBF with a glide and 3.08 gears. Driven to and from the track 60 miles without even changing tire pressure.
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post #23 of 28 Old 04-14-2018, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe my situation was solved! At least I hope swapped cams to a comp 274 HR after I heard a lifter going and sure enough it had stopped rolling so I took no chances and basiclly went through the entire top end and made sure everything was to spec. Timing pointers pointed right at each other nothing advanced. Double checked the balancer and put new timing tape on it, and it’s at 13 degrees. I really hope that maybe I solved my problems with all the work that’s been done! Just waiting for the chance to take the car to the track finally this year and not be hot as it was
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post #24 of 28 Old 04-15-2018, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
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I also have never weighed the car and have had the car tuned, stock injectors and MAF, shorty headers to X pipe and SLP fatback weigh bullet style mufflers,

Ik this is beating a dead horse but does the rotor seem like it’s in the right place for setting Inital timing at TDC? First picture is at 12 degrees BTDC second picture is at 0 degrees just seems of to me that it’s so close to the terminal for the #1 cylinder
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post #25 of 28 Old 04-17-2018, 05:48 AM
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You are using a timing light to check timing?
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post #26 of 28 Old 04-17-2018, 12:08 PM
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who tuned the car and how?

stock injectors and stock maf is definitely the starting point of your problems.

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post #27 of 28 Old 04-17-2018, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
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who tuned the car and how?

stock injectors and stock maf is definitely the starting point of your problems.

^^ this

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I spec'd my whole build to fit a cold air intake I had
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post #28 of 28 Old 04-24-2018, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry for such a Lin response! But it indeed does have stock injectors and MAF and was tuned on the dyno but with a previous set up not the aluminum heads and cam that are currently on the car
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